HiFiMan Susvara
Jan 8, 2021 at 9:31 AM Post #5,986 of 25,885
Did you ever try something like Woo Wa33 as pre amp into the XA25?

For what it's worth, back before got rid of it, I tried my WA33 as a pre-amp into my speaker amp of the time (I don't remember if it was my current amp which is a Pass Labs X150.8 or something I had before that). It was stunningly disappointing, truth be told. Lacking in clarity, dynamics, and top-end. I'm pretty sure I didn't have anything misconfigured when I set that up. Listened to it for all of 5 minutes before never trying it again.

I haven't read any feedback from any other WA33 users in this regard, but it'd be interesting to hear if any others have had different results.
 
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Jan 8, 2021 at 10:04 AM Post #5,987 of 25,885
In the last several months, I have invested my weekends and after-office hours auditioning amps from leading manufacturers, including Pass Labs, Mcintosh, Gryphon, Luxman, Accuphase, Musical Fidelity, Parasound, Anthem, PS Audio, etc.

I have also heard amps from leading headphone amp manufacturers, which, to my mind, paled in comparison to speaker amps. I am, of course, not the first to say this. Nor will I be the last.

Users of the Hifiman Susvara, and to a lesser degree, the Abyss 1266 HPs, have also noted the superior sound from speaker amps, even when driving other headphones, far less ravenous than the Susvaras or the 1266.

Herb Reichert has a poetic review of the Susvaras where he posits the same, referring to these explorations of driving headphones with speaker amps, rather amusingly, as “unauthorized experiments.”

In any case, my conclusions from my experiments are as follows:

1. The Pass Labs XA25 power amp and XP12 pre-amp combo is the best sound I have heard from any amplifier, be it speaker or headphone amp; Class A or Class A/B; Solid State or Tube. Its the most transparent sounding amp, with outstanding naturalness of timbre, an eerily large soundstage, surprising tactility to instrument sounds, and vocals that are just breathtaking. I am, of course, not the first to be impressed by this. Many revered audio critics have opined that the XA25 might be Nelson Pass’s best creation. I myself have also heard Pass’s Class A Monoblocks, if that helps to know, as a benchmark.

2. I have run the Susvaras off 8-10 different head amp and speaker amp combos, but nothing comes close to this rig. The marriage between the XP12, XA25, and the Susvaras, is divine. I was told by my (South Asian) parents growing up that marriages are made in heaven. This is probably what they had in mind? For reference, I am a happily married man.


Perfection.jpg



3. The Hifiman Susvaras off the Pass XP12 and XA25 is the best sound I have heard, period. The sound is far superior to my ears, than speaker rigs worth multiple times more, to say nothing of other headphone + head amp rigs. I may have heard every other TOTL headphone and amp pairings. Your preferences may vary of course, as they should. As they must. But for me, this is endgame. The elusive crossing of the final frontier.

In case you would like impressions, as some of you sought, when I reported acquiring this rig:

Listening to the Susvaras off the Pass Labs accentuates the Susvara’s beguiling musicality.

The details. Oh, the details on this rig. Ubiquitous but never offensive. Blithely inhabiting the space and stage afforded by the marriage of the Sus and the Pass.

As the music’s details hang in this expanded spaciousness of stage, the listener is able to pin point the location and size of each instrument; the movement of the performer on stage, etc.

In terms of frequencies: the bass is deep, detailed, visceral, and subsonic. The bass is tight, controlled, fast, and where Susvaras shine is their low-end detail.

The treble sparkles but stays unerringly polite. In fact, the Susvara treble is a shameless exhibitionist. It's like it wants to see you walk the line on treble energy without ever, ever, giving you sibilance. It makes you laud the damn headphones even whilst listening to it. I kid you not. :gs1000smile:

The midrange is so true to life, that it can make a saint of a sinner, a truth teller of a lying man. Vocals glow and you may start believing the transparency is the handmaiden of musicality, which, for most gears, are compromises.

This is audio nirvana as far as I am concerned. :purple_heart:

Full review of the Hifiman Susvara on various amps, forthcoming.

Gryphon make wonderful amps. Which Gryphon amp have you tried?
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 11:01 AM Post #5,988 of 25,885
In the last several months, I have invested my weekends and after-office hours auditioning amps from leading manufacturers, including Pass Labs, Mcintosh, Gryphon, Luxman, Accuphase, Musical Fidelity, Parasound, Anthem, PS Audio, etc.

I have also heard amps from leading headphone amp manufacturers, which, to my mind, paled in comparison to speaker amps. I am, of course, not the first to say this. Nor will I be the last.

Users of the Hifiman Susvara, and to a lesser degree, the Abyss 1266 HPs, have also noted the superior sound from speaker amps, even when driving other headphones, far less ravenous than the Susvaras or the 1266.

Herb Reichert has a poetic review of the Susvaras where he posits the same, referring to these explorations of driving headphones with speaker amps, rather amusingly, as “unauthorized experiments.”

In any case, my conclusions from my experiments are as follows:

1. The Pass Labs XA25 power amp and XP12 pre-amp combo is the best sound I have heard from any amplifier, be it speaker or headphone amp; Class A or Class A/B; Solid State or Tube. Its the most transparent sounding amp, with outstanding naturalness of timbre, an eerily large soundstage, surprising tactility to instrument sounds, and vocals that are just breathtaking. I am, of course, not the first to be impressed by this. Many revered audio critics have opined that the XA25 might be Nelson Pass’s best creation. I myself have also heard Pass’s Class A Monoblocks, if that helps to know, as a benchmark.

2. I have run the Susvaras off 8-10 different head amp and speaker amp combos, but nothing comes close to this rig. The marriage between the XP12, XA25, and the Susvaras, is divine. I was told by my (South Asian) parents growing up that marriages are made in heaven. This is probably what they had in mind? For reference, I am a happily married man.


Perfection.jpg



3. The Hifiman Susvaras off the Pass XP12 and XA25 is the best sound I have heard, period. The sound is far superior to my ears, than speaker rigs worth multiple times more, to say nothing of other headphone + head amp rigs. I may have heard every other TOTL headphone and amp pairings. Your preferences may vary of course, as they should. As they must. But for me, this is endgame. The elusive crossing of the final frontier.

In case you would like impressions, as some of you sought, when I reported acquiring this rig:

Listening to the Susvaras off the Pass Labs accentuates the Susvara’s beguiling musicality.

The details. Oh, the details on this rig. Ubiquitous but never offensive. Blithely inhabiting the space and stage afforded by the marriage of the Sus and the Pass.

As the music’s details hang in this expanded spaciousness of stage, the listener is able to pin point the location and size of each instrument; the movement of the performer on stage, etc.

In terms of frequencies: the bass is deep, detailed, visceral, and subsonic. The bass is tight, controlled, fast, and where Susvaras shine is their low-end detail.

The treble sparkles but stays unerringly polite. In fact, the Susvara treble is a shameless exhibitionist. It's like it wants to see you walk the line on treble energy without ever, ever, giving you sibilance. It makes you laud the damn headphones even whilst listening to it. I kid you not. :gs1000smile:

The midrange is so true to life, that it can make a saint of a sinner, a truth teller of a lying man. Vocals glow and you may start believing the transparency is the handmaiden of musicality, which, for most gears, are compromises.

This is audio nirvana as far as I am concerned. :purple_heart:

Full review of the Hifiman Susvara on various amps, forthcoming.

@Sajid Amit Love the review. I certainly share your thoughts on this and can understand why you wax poetic about it. I'm looking forward to your review of the Susvara on other amps. The XP-12/XA25 stack will no doubt allow you to more easily discern how other amps perform in comparison.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 11:07 AM Post #5,990 of 25,885
Great review Sajid.

What would also be very interesting is to compare Hifiman's own official Amp for the Susvara's i.e. the updated EF-1000 with TOTL Headphone and Speaker Amps from other manufacturers.

I hope to demo the EF-1000 sometime in Jan / Feb with my Susvara's and Chord DAVE Dac.

Another Headphone Amp which has had a great review with the Susvara and 1266 is the Trafomatic Audio Primavera !
Yes, indeed. The Primavera is on my wish-list of amps I want to experience.

And thanks, man.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 11:37 AM Post #5,991 of 25,885
For what it's worth, back before got rid of it, I tried my WA33 as a pre-amp into my speaker amp of the time (I don't remember if it was my current amp which is a Pass Labs X150.8 or something I had before that). It was stunningly disappointing, truth be told. Lacking in clarity, dynamics, and top-end. I'm pretty sure I didn't have anything misconfigured when I set that up. Listened to it for all of 5 minutes before never trying it again.

I haven't read any feedback from any other WA33 users in this regard, but it'd be interesting to hear if any others have had different results.
One of my friends who has tried the Sus with speaker amps the way some of us have, insists that the WA33 can’t get the Susvaras to the same level of slam, speed, and details, that decent speaker amps can. Of course, it could well be subjective, but he is one guy whose opinions have resonated with mine, over time, so that discouraged me. But I will def try the WA33 if the opportunity arises.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 11:43 AM Post #5,992 of 25,885
One of my friends who has tried the Sus with speaker amps the way some of us have, insists that the WA33 can’t get the Susvaras to the same level of slam, speed, and details, that decent speaker amps can. Of course, it could well be subjective, but he is one guy whose opinions have resonated with mine, over time, so that discouraged me. But I will def try the WA33 if the opportunity arises.
The question Was the combination of both
WA33 as pre amp into XA25 as amp.

Also could you compare your setup to the Pass INT25 ?
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 11:50 AM Post #5,993 of 25,885
Apologies for the laziness but is there a consensus on what minimum level of amping is needed for the Susvara? Are the DNA amps at least a decent fit? Thinking of getting a Susvara but don't have space for another amp other than the DNA Stellaris.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 12:06 PM Post #5,995 of 25,885
The question Was the combination of both
WA33 as pre amp into XA25 as amp.

Also could you compare your setup to the Pass INT25 ?
The INT 25 is a tad noisier than the XA25 and XP12 combo. The difference won’t matter for the Susvara but show up for the dynamic drivers, which are trickier with speaker amps. As far as specs go, XA25 has an output noise of 40uV, while the INT-25 has 150uV, if I remember correctly. The XA25 plays well with my dynamic drivers as well!
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 12:10 PM Post #5,996 of 25,885
The INT 25 is a tad noisier than the XA25 and XP12 combo. The difference won’t matter for the Susvara but show up for the dynamic drivers, which are trickier with speaker amps. As far as specs go, XA25 has an output noise of 40uV, while the INT-25 has 150uV, if I remember correctly. The XA25 plays well with my dynamic drivers as well!
Which dynamic drivers are you using?
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 12:26 PM Post #5,997 of 25,885
In the last several months, I have invested my weekends and after-office hours auditioning amps from leading manufacturers, including Pass Labs, Mcintosh, Gryphon, Luxman, Accuphase, Musical Fidelity, Parasound, Anthem, PS Audio, etc.

I have also heard amps from leading headphone amp manufacturers, which, to my mind, paled in comparison to speaker amps. I am, of course, not the first to say this. Nor will I be the last.

Users of the Hifiman Susvara, and to a lesser degree, the Abyss 1266 HPs, have also noted the superior sound from speaker amps, even when driving other headphones, far less ravenous than the Susvaras or the 1266.

Herb Reichert has a poetic review of the Susvaras where he posits the same, referring to these explorations of driving headphones with speaker amps, rather amusingly, as “unauthorized experiments.”

In any case, my conclusions from my experiments are as follows:

1. The Pass Labs XA25 power amp and XP12 pre-amp combo is the best sound I have heard from any amplifier, be it speaker or headphone amp; Class A or Class A/B; Solid State or Tube. Its the most transparent sounding amp, with outstanding naturalness of timbre, an eerily large soundstage, surprising tactility to instrument sounds, and vocals that are just breathtaking. I am, of course, not the first to be impressed by this. Many revered audio critics have opined that the XA25 might be Nelson Pass’s best creation. I myself have also heard Pass’s Class A Monoblocks, if that helps to know, as a benchmark.

2. I have run the Susvaras off 8-10 different head amp and speaker amp combos, but nothing comes close to this rig. The marriage between the XP12, XA25, and the Susvaras, is divine. I was told by my (South Asian) parents growing up that marriages are made in heaven. This is probably what they had in mind? For reference, I am a happily married man.


Perfection.jpg



3. The Hifiman Susvaras off the Pass XP12 and XA25 is the best sound I have heard, period. The sound is far superior to my ears, than speaker rigs worth multiple times more, to say nothing of other headphone + head amp rigs. I may have heard every other TOTL headphone and amp pairings. Your preferences may vary of course, as they should. As they must. But for me, this is endgame. The elusive crossing of the final frontier.

In case you would like impressions, as some of you sought, when I reported acquiring this rig:

Listening to the Susvaras off the Pass Labs accentuates the Susvara’s beguiling musicality.

The details. Oh, the details on this rig. Ubiquitous but never offensive. Blithely inhabiting the space and stage afforded by the marriage of the Sus and the Pass.

As the music’s details hang in this expanded spaciousness of stage, the listener is able to pin point the location and size of each instrument; the movement of the performer on stage, etc.

In terms of frequencies: the bass is deep, detailed, visceral, and subsonic. The bass is tight, controlled, fast, and where Susvaras shine is their low-end detail.

The treble sparkles but stays unerringly polite. In fact, the Susvara treble is a shameless exhibitionist. It's like it wants to see you walk the line on treble energy without ever, ever, giving you sibilance. It makes you laud the damn headphones even whilst listening to it. I kid you not. :gs1000smile:

The midrange is so true to life, that it can make a saint of a sinner, a truth teller of a lying man. Vocals glow and you may start believing the transparency is the handmaiden of musicality, which, for most gears, are compromises.

This is audio nirvana as far as I am concerned. :purple_heart:

Full review of the Hifiman Susvara on various amps, forthcoming.
Told you so. :grin: :dt880smile:
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 12:42 PM Post #5,999 of 25,885
Which dynamic drivers are you using?
I currently own the Auteur. I also own the HD 650, but that’s more out of respect for the oldie. I used to drive the Auteur with my PrimaLunas but it sounds better on the XA25.
 
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Jan 8, 2021 at 1:21 PM Post #6,000 of 25,885
One of my friends who has tried the Sus with speaker amps the way some of us have, insists that the WA33 can’t get the Susvaras to the same level of slam, speed, and details, that decent speaker amps can. Of course, it could well be subjective, but he is one guy whose opinions have resonated with mine, over time, so that discouraged me. But I will def try the WA33 if the opportunity arises.
WA33 is spec'd at 10W per channel at 32 Ohms. So power to the Susvara (60 Ohms impedance) approx. a shy over 5.3 Watts ! For Susvara this is quite low !

Hifiman EF-1000 provides 20 Watts at 35 Ohms i.e. approx. 11.6 Watts to the Susvara, i.e more than double the WA33. As Hifiman updated the EF-1000 to get the best out of their current Planers in particular the Susvara, this should be the sweet spot for power to the Susvara !.

The Trafomatic Primavera can deliver 9 Watts into 50 Ohms i.e. approx. 7.5 Watts to the Susvara.

Ok it's not just about pure power (voltage swings and current are the important parameters for such headphones like the Susvara) but there is a pattern from reviews and people using Speaker Amps that the more power (up to a point) the better the sound from the Susvara.

I haven't read a review yet that too much power (within the max power the Susvara is spec'd for of 25 Watts) diminishes the sound quality of the Susvara's being fed from a quality Amp.
 

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