[thecrow]

This is meant for the speaker-amp-for-the-Susvara enthusiasts who read this forum, I saw this discussion of Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs and crew, and I thought I should post it here for what its worth, since many Susvara owners prefer speaker amps.

Not trying to be alarmist, start some feud, or even dissuade anyone from loving or using their speaker amps for headphones (it's not as if I could, even if I wanted to). It's just that there are some subtle and nuanced caveats mentioned in the discussion of which I wish I had been folly aware when I dabbled in speaker amps a few years ago in the hopes of optimizing the sonic performance of my OG He-6. To be candid, my experimentation with Speaker amps for that He-6 never went very far,. I also never had any accidents, but I am back to using exclusively HP amps with my HPs, so no personal concerns here, either way.

I am just posting this discussion here, in case someone else might find it useful. They also discuss the limitations of the "mo powa" = better performance" myth

Thanks for that.
i’m not always fans of these guys but that was worth a listen - both for new info and to confirm things that i had heard before

different strokes for different folks!!!

100%
and they made that point

I got about two minutes into it before deciding not to waste any more of my time. As far as I know, JPS sells headphone amps, not speaker amps. Just sayin'...

Maybe worth listening to a bit more.


for those that might be interested:
interesting points they made about the VIVA EGOISTA 845 in the last 7 mins or so of video for those owners

and for watt ratings of amps being based on particular distortion levels.
As a friend if mine (who knows more about electronics than me) says: a tube amp can say it has a maximum output of (say) 5w…..but at what distortion levels.

either way if you’re kicking back having a coffee or when sitting on the toilet “dropping a couple of mates off at the pool” instead of playing candy crush why not sit through the video

just sayin’

 

[hawk13]

This is meant for the speaker-amp-for-the-Susvara enthusiasts who read this forum, I saw this discussion of Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs and crew, and I thought I should post it here for what its worth, since many Susvara owners prefer speaker amps.

Not trying to be alarmist, start some feud, or even dissuade anyone from loving or using their speaker amps for headphones (it's not as if I could, even if I wanted to). It's just that there are some subtle and nuanced caveats mentioned in the discussion of which I wish I had been folly aware when I dabbled in speaker amps a few years ago in the hopes of optimizing the sonic performance of my OG He-6. To be candid, my experimentation with Speaker amps for that He-6 never went very far,. I also never had any accidents, but I am back to using exclusively HP amps with my HPs, so no personal concerns here, either way.

I am just posting this discussion here, in case someone else might find it useful. They also discuss the limitations of the "mo powa" = better performance" myth

This will be useful to many no matter what your opinions are on the subject. My personal experience is that for some people (like myself) even an amp pumping 6-7wpc is not going to be enough to power cans as inefficient as the he6se/Susvara. But there are obviously many risks/downsides of using a speaker amp to listen to headphones. Great find @sahmen!

If anyone has any recommendations on a 100-200w speaker amp for the Susvara, please share.

 

[BassicScience]

Thanks for that.
i’m not always fans of these guys but that was worth a listen - both for new info and to confirm things that i had heard before

100%
and they made that point

Maybe worth listening to a bit more.


for those that might be interested:
interesting points they made about the VIVA EGOISTA 845 in the last 7 mins or so of video for those owners

and for watt ratings of amps being based on particular distortion levels.
As a friend if mine (who knows more about electronics than me) says: a tube amp can say it has a maximum output of (say) 5w…..but at what distortion levels.

either way if you’re kicking back having a coffee or sitting on the toilet “dropping a couple of mates off at the pool” or instead of playing candy crush why not sit through it

just sayin’

Um, I've heard the Susvara through several highly-regarded headphone amps and none of them approaches the sound quality I get with my speaker amp. So pardon me if I'm not really interested in spending 20 minutes listening to people giving reasons why a headphone amp is sufficient. I tuned out when he started talking about things that can go wrong when using a speaker amp. Things can go wrong using any amp!

If someone finds the content of the video useful, more (or less, in this case?) power to 'em.

 

[Pashmeister]

This is meant for the speaker-amp-for-the-Susvara enthusiasts who read this forum, I saw this discussion of Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs and crew, and I thought I should post it here for what its worth, since many Susvara owners prefer speaker amps.

Not trying to be alarmist, start some feud, or even dissuade anyone from loving or using their speaker amps for headphones (it's not as if I could, even if I wanted to). It's just that there are some subtle and nuanced caveats mentioned in the discussion of which I wish I had been folly aware when I dabbled in speaker amps a few years ago in the hopes of optimizing the sonic performance of my OG He-6. To be candid, my experimentation with Speaker amps for that He-6 never went very far,. I also never had any accidents, but I am back to using exclusively HP amps with my HPs, so no personal concerns here, either way.

I am just posting this discussion here, in case someone else might find it useful. They also discuss the limitations of the "mo powa" = better performance" myth

Thanks for sharing. As an abyss owner I do enjoy watching their videos. I freaked out at first before dipping into speaker amps because it felt like handling a nuclear reactor. I think there’s higher inherent risk when using a speaker amp and with risk management one will need additional mitigating factors to implement. As the volume control is one of the highest risk source, I mitigated it with my preamp/ volume controls of choice. My TT2 as my preamp will get the volume to dangerous levels only after rotating the ball a million times first. And my musical paradise preamp has 4 gain settings with a switch inside the chassis. You can choose a gain setting where it will not get loud enough even with volume at 3pm. I also have a post-it on my amp saying “off first”. These precautions may not be enough for others, but it’s enough for me and I’m comfortable enough. I am sure others would have other precautions they take.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Um, I've heard the Susvara through several highly-regarded headphone amps and none of them approaches the sound quality I get with my speaker amp. So pardon me if I'm not really interested in spending 20 minutes listening to people giving reasons why a headphone amp is sufficient. I tuned out when he started talking about things that can go wrong when using a speaker amp. Things can go wrong using any amp!

If someone finds the content of the video useful, more (or less, in this case?) power to 'em.

Lol. Agree 100% @BassicScience.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Thanks for sharing. As an abyss owner I do enjoy watching their videos. I freaked out at first before dipping into speaker amps because it felt like handling a nuclear reactor. I think there’s higher inherent risk when using a speaker amp and with risk management one will need additional mitigating factors to implement. As the volume control is one of the highest risk source, I mitigated it with my preamp/ volume controls of choice. My TT2 as my preamp will get the volume to dangerous levels only after rotating the ball a million times first. And my musical paradise preamp has 4 gain settings with a switch inside the chassis. You can choose a gain setting where it will not get loud enough even with volume at 3pm. I also have a post-it on my amp saying “off first”. These precautions may not be enough for others, but it’s enough for me and I’m comfortable enough. I am sure others would have other precautions they take.

Not sure if all of you caught this from @number1sixerfan, but it is edifying, if you have tried TOTL headamps but not TOTL speaker amps, whether SS or Tube.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/post-16480839

I have been fortunate enough to experience both "varieties" of amplifiers, and all I'll say is that for me, it's been an easy choice in favor of speaker amps, CFA and other DIY performers, notwithstanding.

 

[jlbrach]

Lol. Agree 100% @BassicScience.

I think whatever people choose to do is an individual choice but to assert that a speaker amp doesnt pose more danger of accident to a HP is silly...all sorts of precautions have to be taken with a speaker amp that do not need be taken with HP amps...remembering to turn volume all the way down, not changing HP's without turning down volume or turning off etc...I have no issue with those who say it is worth it but I do take issue with those who say the risks do not exist

 

[Sajid Amit]

I think whatever people choose to do is an individual choice but to assert that a speaker amp doesnt pose more danger of accident to a HP is silly...all sorts of precautions have to be taken with a speaker amp that do not need be taken with HP amps...remembering to turn volume all the way down, not changing HP's without turning down volume or turning off etc...I have no issue with those who say it is worth it but I do take issue with those who say the risks do not exist

Sure.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Yea so that is such a cringeworthy video. Easily one of the most obviously biased I've ever seen lol. And that's just really, really unfortunate.. as I really like the Abyss TC. Just kind of lame and annoying to see such a shill type video like that from them.

I think there are great options in either category. I've been really impressed by the few speaker amps I've tried.. and especially from a price to performance perspective. And with more than any other headphone, the Susvara has undoubtedly benefited the most. That said, whatever floats your boat, but the constant fear mongering with speaker amps is just another overblown perspective on here from people with either 1) something to gain (Abyss); or 2) people on here that don't want speaker amps to outdo their precious, expensive headphone amps.

Even with the extreme uptick in speaker amp usage, we haven't heard of ANYONE blowing drivers (we haven't seen it on here historically either). Again, I have no allegiance to either lol, but what is happening here is very clear lol.

 

[jlbrach]

I must admit I do not understand why abyss describing their concerns about speakers amps with their headphones is biased..my guess is other headphone manufacturers would say the same thing....abyss has numerous amps from other companies on their website and if they believed in speaker amps I see no reason why they wouldnt support them and link to them...you may disagree with their position but to ascribe bias to it seems a bit silly to me,they see it as an unnecessary risk..you dont...simple as that...understand I really do think everybody should make up their own minds...in my case I have indeed owned several speaker amps...very powerful ones at that...they were huge and incredibly heavy and hot and to be honest they didnt appreciably improve the sound of my headphone listening....again ,others disagree and that is fine

 

[BassicScience]

I think whatever people choose to do is an individual choice but to assert that a speaker amp doesnt pose more danger of accident to a HP is silly...all sorts of precautions have to be taken with a speaker amp that do not need be taken with HP amps...remembering to turn volume all the way down, not changing HP's without turning down volume or turning off etc...I have no issue with those who say it is worth it but I do take issue with those who say the risks do not exist

I refer you to my post #8799 in this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-587#post-16358100

My Susvara was subjected to full output from my NAD amp for over 5 seconds and came out none the worse for wear.

 

[thecrow]

Um, I've heard the Susvara through several highly-regarded headphone amps and none of them approaches the sound quality I get with my speaker amp. So pardon me if I'm not really interested in spending 20 minutes listening to people giving reasons why a headphone amp is sufficient. I tuned out when he started talking about things that can go wrong when using a speaker amp. Things can go wrong using any amp!

If someone finds the content of the video useful, more (or less, in this case?) power to 'em.

You don’t need to be pardoned

it’s all good

 

[thecrow]

They do mention in their video that they understand that people will want to play with speaker amps and that they might enjoy the sound they bring and that amps used are quite often ones that have been used before so there is info available (eg on headfi) about what has worked well in the past through shared experiences.

they also say that they can easily fix blown out drivers

anyway…..i’ll happily (try to) stick with the gear that I’ve got

 

[SuperBurrito]

I just received an adapter to run my headphones (Susvara and TC) into my speaker amp (Chord TToby). I thought there would be a huge sound difference between the TToby and my dedicated headphone amp (Luxman P-750U). Frankly, the outcome is way, way closer than I expected. The TToby seems to have a bit more air and detail. The Luxman seems a bit more liquid and natural, and maybe a shade darker. So far I don't prefer one or the other - it really depends on what you're looking for.

I can totally see the benefit of not having a HP amp and instead spending that money on a higher tier power amp that can be used for both speakers and headphones.

Imagine using something like a D'Agostino Momentum as a headphone amp. That could be incredible.

 

[mammal]

for those that might be interested:
interesting points they made about the VIVA EGOISTA 845 in the last 7 mins or so of video for those owners

It is very unfortunate that we keep seeing argument made about Viva amp, from one side only. I asked around (the owner of the amp which the issue happened to) as well as Viva themselves and I would like to point out (without going into detail) that what Abyss said in their video is their side of the story, keep that in mind.