[Bonesy Jonesy]

Quickly coming out of hiding to reiterate the following PSA: source matters far more than most realize. It is the foundation of your system. Don’t skimp! In most cases, an Apple MacMini (even an upgraded one) is not a source that can properly leverage the capabilities of Susvara. If you are spending 4K'ish on a pair of Susvaras and another 2k-20k for an amp to drive them, you owe it to yourself to invest in a proper source.

I've been using the EF1000 with the Susvaras for approx. 5 months now and I was just forcefully reminded of how detrimental a mediocre source can be to a high-end system.

How are you liking the EF1000 'littlejOe' ?

Are you using the stock cable Susvara cable or are you using a higher quality one ?

Have you tried the EF1000 with other headphones ?

What sources are you using / have tried into the EF1000 ?

 

[hifixman]

Quickly coming out of hiding to reiterate the following PSA: source matters far more than most realize. It is the foundation of your system. Don’t skimp! In most cases, an Apple MacMini (even an upgraded one) is not a source that can properly leverage the capabilities of Susvara. If you are spending 4K'ish on a pair of Susvaras and another 2k-20k for an amp to drive them, you owe it to yourself to invest in a proper source.

I've been using the EF1000 with the Susvaras for approx. 5 months now and I was just forcefully reminded of how detrimental a mediocre source can be to a high-end system.

Source matter far more than most realize +1

I have been playing around some source components it is simply crazy as I was very skeptical of high end streamers, but after trying MU1 and More importantly Aurender N20, I’m sold.

 

[jlbrach]

the source is more important than the susvara IMHO...I love my susvara but if you asked me if I would prefer the susvara with a compromised source or a lessor HP with a higher end source I go for the higher end source every time..I know many disagree but that has been my experience

 

[hifixman]

the source is more important than the susvara IMHO...I love my susvara but if you asked me if I would prefer the susvara with a compromised source or a lessor HP with a higher end source I go for the higher end source every time..I know many disagree but that has been my experience

It is just one high end source could be easily more expensive than the most expensive TOTL headphone amps. Like I really want to upgrade to Aurender master clock but that price tag is…

 

[iFi audio]

Running Elrog ER300b

Interesting, how are these 300Bs in comparison some other tubes? By KR or AML? Have you tried any of that by any chance? Thanks!

 

[Roybenz]

I got a nice upgrade with Moon 680D, it has an integrated mind 2 streamer, next in that i will test is the Paul pang quad switch.

 

[IanB52]

I recently moved from Ferrum stack to a Zähl HM1, and now I really get what people say about speaker amps with Susvara. Not that the HM1 is a speaker amp, but it is doing the stuff that people talk about with Benchmark etc.

I just thought that these were detailed, but soft headphones, with a deep but rounded bass end. Now I see that they are extremely fast, perhaps faster than my Diana TC (but without sounding so hard), and full spectrum, truly like ear speakers. No overhang at all, everything is so tight and defined, and no frequency is weak or out of balance.

Once you've got the right amp, and for the money that is probably a speaker amp, wow these actually rock pretty hard.

 

[Roybenz]

How is the Niimbus 5 compared to zahl?

 

[FiGuY1017]

What I've noticed having a good amp and an even better amp with Susvara, is what might obviously explain why some shrug Susvara off as while excellent, just not the best for their taste.
*Of course it won't be to everyone's, that's obvious as well

While they scale up, they also obviously scale down.

I notice this alot when I take them from MY optimized "totl" setup #1, to my bedroom system that I haven't optimized as much.

On the Thr1 Susvara are very good, nice stage,very nice tone, great imaging and plenty of power.

But when on my optimized system Volot it is a completely different headphone.

On Volot it is huge, in every direction as well, w/ plenty of powerful bass but the music becomes much more intricate and deep. I can hear layers, similar to an exploded diagram, but very dynamic and musical

Just really shows why it's worth it's claim, as one of the best.

 

[Somatic]

Interesting, how are these 300Bs in comparison some other tubes? By KR or AML? Have you tried any of that by any chance? Thanks!

Sorry only the standard stock for Envy. I think it was Gold Lion and tried the WE300B. Without breakin I like the Elrogs the most so far. More low and high end extension. Very balanced and linear with good note weight.

 

[OCC7N]

Source matter far more than most realize +1

I have been playing around some source components it is simply crazy as I was very skeptical of high end streamers, but after trying MU1 and More importantly Aurender N20, I’m sold.

I noticed this today when I took my pc with jcat usb xe pcie out of the chain and connected my system directly to my Synology NAS DS118 with usb, instead of using the ethernet side: dlna/foobar2000.

Ofcourse my NAS is tweaked(power,usb), but the sound is amazing on this cheap 180 dollar NAS where the features and app experience is top notch!

 

[littlej0e]

How are you liking the EF1000 'littlejOe' ?

Are you using the stock cable Susvara cable or are you using a higher quality one ?

Have you tried the EF1000 with other headphones ?

What sources are you using / have tried into the EF1000 ?

Oh boy. I was hoping to avoid this until later, but here goes:

• I'm using Susvaras with a custom (silver) Viking cable. True top-tier quality and sound all around. Viking cables seem quite tough to beat.
• 
  
• I've used the EF1000 with Susvara, DCA Ether C Flow, DCA Stealth, Focal Utopia (nutopia/2022), and Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC.
• 
  
• I found the casework for the EF1000 a bit lacking. I've taken it apart a couple of times for the sake of general curiosity and to roll tubes. All in, I'm guessing the EF1000 cost somewhere between 3k and 4k in parts and labor, so fairly typical for a commercial product at this price point. However, I am (perhaps unfairly) comparing it to the "work of art" that is the WA33 EE JPS. This is highly subjective, of course, but I think Hifiman could've done a bit better considering the price tag.
• 
  
• The sound is outstanding. If you want to squeeze every drop of performance out of Susvara, this is probably your amp. If you are willing to sacrifice 5-10'ish percent performance for 1/2 the cost, go with double AHB2s. If you are willing to sacrifice 10-15'ish percent at 1/5-to-1/2 the cost, get a Bakoon 13R or a CFA3. However, the most important thing I learned from the EF1000 is driving the Susvaras isn't all about raw power. The EF1000 gives you more subtle goodies like better control, more effortlessness and liquidity, as well as slightly better staging and overall coherence. That's where the EF1000 really earns it's money. You also hit the nail on the head with scaling: the EF1000/Susvara combo just keeps going and going. For that reason, combined with the aforementioned subtleties, I do think the EF1000 is the absolute pinnacle for Susvara. The problem is value. You can almost certainly get within 5'ish percent for half the cost, or even less. The law of diminishing returns is in extreme effect here. Such is life at the extreme high-end.
• 
  
• I tried the EF1000/Sus with multiple sources: a customized Mac mini (optimized software, special RAM, plus external power supply mod), Lumin X1, Aurender N20, Innuos Statement, Pink Faun 2.16 Ultra, Taiko Extreme, and a custom bespoke server from Pareto audio (more on streamers later). The Pareto bested the mini, X1 and N20 in stock configuration, but got flat out destroyed by the PF and Taiko. Interestingly, the N20 came extremely close, and in some ways bested the Pareto, when I added external clocking with a Mutec MC-3+ USB/REF10 SE120 combo and used Aurender's critical listening mode. Fancy stuff.
• 
  
• Quick notes on the the Pink Faun, Taiko Extreme, and streamers in general.
  • I would argue the Taiko is ever-so-slightly better than the PF. Fans of the Chord Dave, DCS, and/or extreme detail wh0res should probably go with the Taiko. It will melt your face off.
  • Those looking for a slightly more organic and musically-focused presentation should probably go with the Pink Faun. The PF also seemed to pair especially well with the Susvara/EF1000 in my system, but the Taiko would likely fit equally well with the right components and tweaks.
  • Both servers are essentially two sides of the same summit-fi coin and would likely represent a side-grade from one another.
  • The Aurender N20 + Mutec clocking + critical listening mode was still a good 10-15'ish percent behind the Taiko and PF. Yep.
  • I think the N20 likely has the most raw capability for it's price. But you'll still want to add proper Mutec clocking to get the absolute most out of it. And at that point, you may be better off splurging for a true summit-fi streamer in the first place.
  • Remember the X1, N20 and Statement (I haven't tried the new Pulsar) are commercially manufactured products. They have custom-tailored software, minimal COTs components, and are VASTLY more user friendly to install, operate and manage. Yes, the proof is in the ear wax and bespoke servers do seem to out-perform most commercial servers. But that extra performance comes with significant trade-offs. Be completely honest with yourself and your technical abilities before purchasing a bespoke solution. No matter how much a bespoke vendor promises to support their build, you will almost certainly end up supporting it yourself and/or bent over your audio rack in the long run. The same can obviously be said of commercial vendors (especially those selling polished audio turds with 1 year warranties), which is why a vendor's track record is absolutely vital when considering server purchases. Probably more so than any other audio component as servers are highly dependent on continuous software, firmware, and driver updates (drivers are the biggie). Consequently, I think most people are better off going the commercial server route with a well-established vendor. It's the best way to keep your risk to a minimum when investing in a high-end streamer, especially if you are technically handicapped.
• 
  
• Lastly, and perhaps most controversially, this exercise forced me to face a rather uncomfortable truth: Compared to most custom built software from high-end server manufacturers, Roon's default sound quality is quite poor by comparison. That really sucks because I think it has the best UI out there. Yes, there are plenty of tweaks and optimizations, but SQ still lags noticeably behind nearly every custom software implementation I've heard from high-end server manufactures. Roon's marketing tagline should read, "Roon Ready....to get $h1t shoveled in your ear holes." If your system is hovering in mid-fi/moderate hi-fi territory, you probably shouldn't care. If you are looking for absolute summit-fi performance, ditch Roon and go with the purpose-built software from the server manufacturer. The only exception to this is Taiko Audio's custom dual CPU implementation for Roon (they strip out and offload 99% of the SQ-murdering shark $h1t to the second CPU, resulting in the best Roon performance I've ever heard. By far. Just wow.).

 

[BassicScience]

If you're getting cr@p sound from Roon, you either have it configured wrong/poorly, or whatever you're comparing it to is performing some sort of DSP which you prefer. Otherwise, Roon is simply transferring bits unaltered from the source file/stream to a buffer in your DAC, and as such, sounds exactly as good as any other front end performing the same operation.

 

[littlej0e]

If you're getting cr@p sound from Roon, you either have it configured wrong/poorly, or whatever you're comparing it to is performing some sort of DSP which you prefer. Otherwise, Roon is simply transferring bits unaltered from the source file/stream to a buffer in your DAC, and as such, sounds exactly as good as any other front end performing the same operation.

Sorry, but I whole-heartedly disagree. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but this isn't even arguable. Roon has so many bloated processes running in the background (i.e. real-time library scans, meta data updates, etc.), the extra processes and CPU load absolutely murders SQ. That's why Taiko's implementation is so ground breaking for Roon.

There is a reason why so many server vendors, even commercial ones, go with the absolute smallest CPU that consumes the least electricity with the most energy efficient RAM, along with fully custom motherboard BIOS. In a server, free roaming electricity, extra CPU cycles, and subsequent unneeded processes are the mortal enemy of sound quality. This is not new information.

Edit: this came off rather prickish. Sorry

 

[littlej0e]

Also, it isn't that Roon just sounds like crap and that's the end of it. It only sounds like crap compared to most high-end custom-tailored manufacturer software. Hence why I recommend people in mid-fi/hi-if territory shouldn't even worry about it.