[seanwee]

Wow, what a day. Returned my second Sundara, this time minus the right channel. Paid an extra 300 kiwi pesos and walked out with a big box containing the Elears.

Plugged in the Elears and OMG no right channel lol. I can laugh now because I have another pair on my head as I write this, but at the time I felt like I was in the twilight zone. If this pair fails I agreed to take my whole rig in for checking.

During the second somewhat awkward conversation with the nice staff, they said they'd sold 10 Sundaras, with my two the only faulty ones. 20% failure rate by my calculation, however you would need a larger sample for statistical reasons I struggled with at Uni.

Elears are a bit darker than Sundara, probably more up my alley, but I reckon I'll miss the light the Sundara shines on your sounds.

Lol so the Elears also had no right channel?

 

[Vero Golf Champ]

Yeah straight out of the box only the left channel worked with the Elears. Both Sundaras worked well for a while before one channel failed. From memory left cup died on the first pair.

Certainly unbelievably bad luck. Fortunately I was dealing with a bricks and mortar store.

Haven't had too many problems with gear in the past. Headband on the Nighthawks is deteriorating, but looks to be easily removed and repaired or replaced. Battery died in a little Onkyo DAC/amp and the headband snapped on a cheap pair of SMS cans I had, otherwise smooth sailing. Sony Z7s still look as good as the day I got them and first impressions are they have a similar signature to the Elears. Hopefully the Elears prove to be better lol.

 

[SoundSquare]

After some intensive listening sessions with the Sundara (and around 30 hours burnin) i can't say i'm 100% satisfied with it. While i love the clarity and speed, i'm a bit disappointed by the depth. The soundstage is quite alright and wide enough, but it feels everything is happening on the same plan. The sound is very "in your face", lacks a bit of distance. The accentuated upper mids are here for a reason, without it it would sound pretty dark. The bass amount and quality is very good, even if it sounds a slight bit congested on some bass heavy tracks. Listening to the HE-400i after it feels like a veil is being lifted,, but then you miss the punchier bass from the Sundara. Both are not very impressive in terms of mids to my ears.
My impressions may change with time, but for now i can't say i'm super excited by these, they are technically very good, without massive flaws, but they can also be a bit boring at times;

 

[Light - Man]

^ Interesting to hear your views combined with the fact that you have the 400i at the same time to compare. I have had both but not at the same time.

I agree with everything that you say except that I find the 400i mids to be quite good, what are you pairing yours with?

One of the issues I had with the Sundara was that it lacked body in the lower mids for male vocals, which is not an issue in 400i, would you agree?

Overall I think that the Sundara is just a different perspective on the sound and is only a side-grade to the 400i.

I have the 400i and the Fostex T60rp at the moment and definitely prefer the 400i.

Where do we go from here for an upgrade?

 

[seanwee]

Lol, so the thinner diaphragm lead to a thinner sound?

 

[Light - Man]

Lol, so the thinner diaphragm lead to a thinner sound?

In think we need to ask Hyman what has caused the thinner sound, perhaps because they are making much fatter profits?

While they are here, maybe they will explain why so many people are having QC issues with their stuff?

 

[SoundSquare]

^ Interesting to hear your views combined with the fact that you have the 400i at the same time to compare. I have had both but not at the same time.

I agree with everything that you say except that I find the 400i mids to be quite good, what are you pairing yours with?

nothing fancy, directly out of the A&K Kann (balanced though), or through a Magni 2, a Fostex HP-V1 or a RHA L1. No high end amps (the HP-V1 is utterly good though). I will have listen to them both before i can agree or not with you about the mids, what i posted earlier are quick impressions, i'll go deeper into it

One of the issues I had with the Sundara was that it lacked body in the lower mids for male vocals, which is not an issue in 400i, would you agree?

90% of my music is instrumental or with female vocals, i'm not the best one to judge male vocals on it But i get what you mean, there seems to be a dip somewhere in that range. Overall the vocals in general are quite recessed (but high pitched female vocals are totally in control and not sibilant at all, very good point.) . There is a bit of harshness that doesn't come from the highs (HE-400i) but from the upper mids (Sundara).

Overall I think that the Sundara is just a different perspective on the sound and is only a side-grade to the 400i.

I totally agree, they are on the same level, just different sound signature, slightly.

I have the 400i and the Fostex T60rp at the moment and definitely prefer the 400i.

I also have the T60RP, but i'll send it back soon, i can't get used to it, it needs a ridiculously high amount of power to sound decent and is totally unmusical to my ears. And mine squeaks like mad, everyime i move my head i feel like a mouse is being decapitated inside the cups. Who said Hifiman has bad QC ?

Where do we go from here for an upgrade?

At this price point and with similar specs (planar full size open cans) i still think the Sundara (or the 400i) is the best choice. To get a true upgrade you also need to upgrade your savings (LCD2-C ? Aeon Flow Open ? )

Just to add to the topic, if you need a balanced 2,5mm jack cable for your Sundara for a reasonable price, i strongly suggest the Beyer&Dynamic balanced cable (the one they made for the T5P/T1), it's a very good cable, and the Sundara loves it. I use it with the Sundara and the Kennerton Magister. It's available with an XLR plug as well.

https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/audiophile-connection-cable-balanced-1-40-m.html

 

[soal]

Where do we go from here for an upgrade?

HE-560 at current prices, no doubt.

 

[felix3650]

If anyone wants a pair of mint Sundaras I'm offering mine. PM me for info
Will put them up for sale in the classifieds too.

 

[Fargeg]

I spent some more time looking at measurements and experimenting with parametric EQ, making extensive use of the graph feature in Peace GUI, and the Sundaras now sound much better to me. I'm using these settings:

From the measurements I've seen at Rtings, the Sundara apparently lacks a notch at 10 kHz to bring the soundstage outside of the head. It's easily fixable by EQing in a -10 dB peak at 9,500 Hz with a Q of 25. I like my treble air though, so I used these filters instead:
Peak at 9,500 Hz, +0.5 dB, Q 1.4
Peak at 9,500 Hz, -10 dB, Q 20
Peak at 10,000 Hz, +1.5 dB, Q 3
High shelf at 14,000 Hz, +3.5 dB, 60 dB/Oct

I settled on this to extend the sub-bass to 20 Hz while keeping the lows neutral:
Peak at 20 Hz, +2 dB, Q 0.6

And these filters brought forward female vocals just the right amount for me without sounding shouty:
Peak at 1,700 Hz, +1.5 dB, Q 1
Peak at 2,800 Hz, +1.5 dB, Q 2.5

 

[seanwee]

I spent some more time looking at measurements and experimenting with parametric EQ, making extensive use of the graph feature in Peace GUI, and the Sundaras now sound much better to me. I'm using these settings:

From the measurements I've seen at Rtings, the Sundara apparently lacks a notch at 10 kHz to bring the soundstage outside of the head. It's easily fixable by EQing in a -10 dB peak at 9,500 Hz with a Q of 25. I like my treble air though, so I used these filters instead:
Peak at 9,500 Hz, +0.5 dB, Q 1.4
Peak at 9,500 Hz, -10 dB, Q 20
Peak at 10,000 Hz, +1.5 dB, Q 3
High shelf at 14,000 Hz, +3.5 dB, 60 dB/Oct

I settled on this to extend the sub-bass to 20 Hz while keeping the lows neutral:
Peak at 20 Hz, +2 dB, Q 0.6

And these filters brought forward female vocals just the right amount for me without sounding shouty:
Peak at 1,700 Hz, +1.5 dB, Q 1
Peak at 2,800 Hz, +1.5 dB, Q 2.5

That is most interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Rhamnetin]

HE-560 at current prices, no doubt.

I think the Sundara is an upgrade over that, based on my demo of the Sundara last week and my experience owning the HE-560. Shows how much your mileage may vary. The HE-560 is just too bright, other than that nothing about it sounds awful nor great to me.

 

[Ripper2860]

My Sundara's arrive later today (Wednesday -- its 12:04 AM here). I'll post up initial thoughts once received.

(My Massdrop HD6XX arrive on Thursday, but that's for another thread!!)

 

[Rhamnetin]

My Sundara's arrive later today (Wednesday -- its 12:04 AM here). I'll post up initial thoughts once received.

(My Massdrop HD6XX arrive on Thursday, but that's for another thread!!)

Interesting. You will be using the Lyr 3? I own an HD 6XX and have listened to the Sundara, and the latter is really a league above the HD 6XX so I think you will like it.

 

[Ripper2860]

Yes, I'll be using the Lyr 3 with the Sundara and HD6XX. i purchased the HD6XX in March, well before I considered purchasing Sundara and now the HD6XX has finally shipped. I'm thinking it will not be a keeper and end up for sale given the recent purchase of Sundara -- or I could use the HD6XX with my 2-channel rig and replace my Audio Technica ATH-M50's. A nice problem to have, as I see it.