[kid vic]

I wish HiFiMan would just re-release the HE-6 in a newer enclosure with a suspension headband, less restrictive grill, newer/better pads, and maybe with the fuzzor mod, for the same price of the HE-6. That'd win them back some customers.

Exactly, even if it was a massdrop collab it would still be great for them.

 

[Slim1970]

I wish HiFiMan would just re-release the HE-6 in a newer enclosure with a suspension headband, less restrictive grill, newer/better pads, and maybe with the fuzzor mod, for the same price of the HE-6. That'd win them back some customers.

That’s the one headphone I would like to see make a comeback as well. I wasn’t into headphones when it was originally released but I want a set. If it was re-released with some modern upgrades I think you’re right it would win over some customers.

Back on topic, I had the HE400i’s and the HE560’s and I’m interested in the Sundara’s. If they lean more towards the sound of the HE560’s then I would love to get a listen to these. I like the new form factor.

 

[SilverEars]

I wish HiFiMan would just re-release the HE-6 in a newer enclosure with a suspension headband, less restrictive grill, newer/better pads, and maybe with the fuzzor mod, for the same price of the HE-6. That'd win them back some customers.

Instead of that, what did Hifiman do? Releases a successor called Susvara, and decides that it's worth a whopping $6k.

This is what happens here. We give the company some popularity, they get narcissistic, and decide that their products should be over-priced. And what else did we get? QC issues with his lower priced stuff.

Is this how Hifiman wants to treat this community after all the business the company has gotten from us?

 

[SilverEars]

Here's Hifiman's evolution tree

 

[CoFire]

Here's Hifiman's evolution tree

The HE400S evolving from the HE560? I think a branch was grafted.

 

[SilverEars]

The HE400S evolving from the HE560? I think a branch was grafted.

When I looked at it, I was thinking similarly with certain headphones that came later as I took a closer look at it, it's not necessarily an evolution in terms of better headphone succeeding, but seems like timing of when the headphones came out within the same technology branch. Each branch seems to be a family of headphones with the same technology. Majority will not argue that HE500 is technically better than the HE6, but it's in the same branch and came out later. Susvara is where the two branches meet, which means it's utilizing hybrid of two technologies.

 

[Shazb0t]

When I looked at it, I was thinking similarly with certain headphones that came later as I took a closer look at it, it's not necessarily an evolution in terms of better headphone succeeding, but seems like timing of when the headphones came out within the same technology branch. Each branch seems to be a family of headphones with the same technology. Majority will not argue that HE500 is technically better than the HE6, but it's in the same branch and came out later. Susvara is where the two branches meet, which means it's utilizing hybrid of two technologies.

I think if you ever get a chance to try both the he500 and he6 at the same time you might be surprised.

 

[SilverEars]

I think if you ever get a chance to try both the he500 and he6 at the same time you might be surprised.

It makes it really difficult to know with the effeciency being different between the two with a thread dedicated to discussion of driving HE6 with speaker amps. LOL. HE500 is an evolved one in the line due to more efficiency.

With all the hype of HE6 with speaker amps, I think HE500 got over-shadowed despite being more efficient.

Interestingly HE6 is one of a kind in the 6-series. How they number them I do not know. If we went by numbers, 500 and 560 should be in the same branch, but they are not.

What were you driving them for the comparison?

It would be interesting to hear them side by side.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I heard the HE-500 and HE-6 side by side with a HeadAmp GS-X Mk2, both headphones fully balanced. I loved both, main differences I detected were that the HE-6 had better dynamics and detail and sound stage and treble energy (but the treble didn't sound harsh to me at all). I'm going to try to get a used HE-6 soon, I'm mostly a speaker person these days but I'll drive it from the speaker taps.

 

[Fargeg]

I tried playing around some more with EQ using Peace GUI, adding a +4 dB high shelf filter at 14 kHz with a Q of 60 and a +2 dB peaking filter at 10 kHz with a Q of 1.41 to compensate for the resulting dip.

The tweaks blew up the Sundara's soundstage from wide to massive without being too fatiguing. I know there has to be a better configuration that keeps the frequency response more coherent and doesn't potentially screw with imaging, but for now, I am having my mind blown open by Dvorak's 9th.

 

[seanwee]

I tried playing around some more with EQ using Peace GUI, adding a +4 dB high shelf filter at 14 kHz with a Q of 60 and a +2 dB peaking filter at 10 kHz with a Q of 1.41 to compensate for the resulting dip.

The tweaks blew up the Sundara's soundstage from wide to massive without being too fatiguing. I know there has to be a better configuration that keeps the frequency response more coherent and doesn't potentially screw with imaging, but for now, I am having my mind blown open by Dvorak's 9th.

Speaker-like massive? Or just HD800 like massive?

 

[Fargeg]

Speaker-like massive? Or just HD800 like massive?

Speaker-like isn't happening without crosstalk. It's great by headphone standards.

 

[junki]

I wanted to give an update to my journey looking for after market pads now that I've arrived at my destination.

So I tried the perforated ZMF Ori, the suede ZMF Eikon, the Dekoni X00 Elite Hybrids, and now the perforated ZMF Universe. My goal was to find a pair of pads with ear cavities that would allow me to naturally, haphazardly, and comfortably put the headphones on while preserving the tonality and technicalities of the stock Sundara.

I found that both the Ori and the Eikon shrunk the stage but sharpened the imaging, like how one can see things more clearly when they are closer. Unfortunately, this also had the effect making the treble a bit too hot for my tastes. Additionally, I noticed that the bass became a bit more bloomy and wooly with both pads, so I sold both of them shortly after trying them.

The X00 Elite Hybrids were actually a mis-delivery from Dekoni when I actually ordered the TH-900 Elite Hybrids. Tal from Dekoni, though eager to help, never actually shipped out replacement pads even though he claimed he did (it's been over a week, tracking to this day has not updated, I live in an adjacent state, and Tal has gone completely silent in our email exchange). I tried the X00 anyway and it was just poor pairing all around. I didn't listen to them long, but what was immediately clear was that the bass through lower midrange were greatly muffled and distorted.

Noticing that Sundara's stock pads have a round 55mm diameter ear cavity, I had a theory: the muffledness I heard in the aforementioned pads was due to their ear cavities being smaller than 55mm along at least one dimension. This meant that part of the pads blocked the diaphragm when the stock pads did not. The X00 pads were especially egregious of this offense.

I decided to try the ZMF Universe due to its large ear cavity, whose width is the same as the diameter of the stock pads' ear cavity and whose length is 50% larger. These pads do not block the driver diaphragm. I tried them on, and indeed bass resolution and performance was the same as the stock pads, just slightly more elevated, likely due to the better seal of the lambskin vs. the velour.

However, I noticed that, similar to the Ori and the Eikon before it, staging was much more intimate, imaging was sharper, and sounds were much more in-my-face. The beautiful expansiveness of the stock sound was gone, and once again the intimacy sometimes made the treble a tad too glaring for me. How could this be?

Looking over the Sundara's stock pads, I noticed the inner ear cavity wall is very densely perforated and also thin. This meant hardly any inner pad reflections were happening with the stock pads. Following this theory, I placed two strips of 1.5cm x 8cm felt tape along both sides of each Universe pad's inner wall. These walls are quite a bit thicker and rather sparsely perforated compared to the stock pads.

After this mod... Voila! This dampening, similar to how I modded my old M1060's stock pads, more or less eliminated inner pad reflections. The result is that higher frequencies were no longer amplified by reflections to immediately in front of my face and the delicate expansiveness of presence and treble returned! There is absolutely no glare or hotness now either!

For those who love the Sundara's stock sound, but want something with a larger, more forgiving ear cavity, I highly recommend the ZMF Universe pads with my felt tape mod. The end result is the stock sound, slightly weightier lower end, and happy ears. It's been a rather long journey for me, but I'm glad I found a satisfying conclusion.

 

[kid vic]

It makes it really difficult to know with the effeciency being different between the two with a thread dedicated to discussion of driving HE6 with speaker amps. LOL. HE500 is an evolved one in the line due to more efficiency.

With all the hype of HE6 with speaker amps, I think HE500 got over-shadowed despite being more efficient.

Interestingly HE6 is one of a kind in the 6-series. How they number them I do not know. If we went by numbers, 500 and 560 should be in the same branch, but they are not.

What were you driving them for the comparison?

It would be interesting to hear them side by side.

I haven't heard the HE6 yet but driving my HE500's off of speaker taps has been jaw dropping

 

[TSAVAlan]

I always found something satisfying with pad rolling the Hifiman headphones. The Sundara pads are pretty much some of the nicest if not the nicest pads Hifiman has come out with. Think only pair of Hifiman I haven't swapped pads on was the HE-1k for a few reasons.