[SilverEars]

TIPS ON SUNDARA:

■ - LOTS of burn-in. 100 h at least

Too bad it doesn't come with balanced cable like recent batches of HE560. And the connector is 3.5mm, not 2.5mm like HEK or HE560

The secret to long lasting headphones is metal yoke. Learned that from HE560's fragile plastice yokes.

 

[zodiac1234]

.....I'm pretty interested in how it compares to the HEXv2 if anyone has both. How do these compare to those?

Have commented earlier on Sundara vs EDITION X V2.
Suffice it to say that i sold my HEXv2 5 days ago.

Sundara IMO s:
》 less comfortable
》 airier
》 more open
》 better on top
》 bass is better balanced wrt the rest of the spectrum.
》 Not as warm, but equally pleasant

 

[MCPT]

^ Sliver-Ears thanks for your thoughts but a little too late for me as my pair are on the way and I should have them by Saturday.

Hopefully with continued burn-in they will improve for you, so keep us posted.

I think I have read that they take 150 hours burn-in. (damned if you do, damned if you don't).

I will make a comparison with the Fidelio X2 I still have and find very versatile.

P.S. what are you pairing it with?

I look forward to your comparisons with the X2.

 

[franz12]

TIPS ON SUNDARA:

■ - LOTS of burn-in. 100 h at least
■ - Change cable immediately
■ - Use balanced cable & amp
■ - Pad roll
■ - Better with Solid State amps

I agree that the cable coming with is horrible. Its quality is equivalent to the one coming with hd598. I expected something better with a $500 headphone.

 

[SilverEars]

P.S. what are you pairing it with?

Sorry, didn't notice this tid-bit. With Gumby -> GSX MK2 or Bryston BHA-1

I'm gonna start to look for a tube amp. I need a tube amp on the side of solid-state I feel.

 

[MCPT]

Have commented earlier on Sundara vs EDITION X V2.
Suffice it to say that i sold mine 5 days ago after getting the Sundara.

Sundara - to my ears - is:
》 airier
》 more open
》 better on top
》 bass is better balanced wrt the rest of the spectrum.
》 Not as warm, but equally pleasant

I appreciate your comparisons to the HEXv2. The Sundara is definitely near the top of my list of headphones I want to try/buy. I will sit back a little longer to see if other people have thoughts about the Sundara vs. HEXv2. I will say that I'm surprised yet hopeful to see that you feel the Sundara is "airier, more open, better on top and better balanced bass". It almost seems to good to be true for a $500 hp. Of course, I'm not saying I don't believe you, because I was very unimpressed with some of the more expensive hp I tried. I would be thrilled if I found what I was looking for in a $500 hp. I would have plenty left over for a new DAP.

 

[franz12]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are correct.

It is not flattering to the manufacturers, or some owners of High End stuff, to read that their >3000 USD HPs do not have sonic qualities that would motivate their price tag.

Reviews are extremely important for sales.
A favorable review translates directly into increased sales. Love for the musical art is the motivating factor, it does not pay the bills.

I bought the Sundara a while back.
I recently sold my Edition X v2, and HE1000 V2 is soon gone too.

Sub-bas / Bas:
HE1000v2 is the winner here (Sundara, Ed X, HE1000v2).
Sundara has the right balance with respect to the rest of the spectrum, but HE1000V2 sounds slightly more defined and precise.
Ed X sounds too overemphasized.

I could feel the bass notes of the organ pipes actually shaking the cups (Sundara) during listening,

Mids:
Sundara sounds "veiled" and "shelved-down", in the mid.
Ed X is much more so.
HE1000v2 starts to loose some of its precision here.

But Sundara sounds more coherent than the other two, that sound not so good here.

Highs:
Sundara sounds rolled off.
ED X sounds very rolled off.
HE1000V2, sounds confusing, fuzzy and "weired" (i cant find a better word).

Sundara sounds more balanced than Ed X which is too lean and overtly warm, and slightly better than HE1000v2 here.

Soundstage depth, width, height
All three paint a big picture that is wide (HE1000v2), deep (Sundara, HE1000v2, Ed X) and tall (HE1000v2/Sundara).

Sundara is more precise and detailed which helps create more definition around the instruments and slightly clearer picture.
Ed X paints the same picture with less accuracy and less precision.
HE1000v2 is ok, not better than the others.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many reviewers believe that frequency response is everything, but it is not.

A while ago, I realized that although a rolled-off, tilted response that I liked back then, helped cover some of the shortcomings of many HPs and electronics, it created a "veil" that substantially detracted from the musical experience.

Like looking to the outside through a clean window, as apposed to a foggy one.

Please make sure to listen for yourself.

Most of us seem to agree that mids on Sundara are slightly recessed or veiled or both of them.
From your impressions, let me conjecture a few things.
1. ED X is more recessed in mids or sounds distanced than Sundara.
2. HEKV2 is not distanced as much. Maybe slightly forward than Sundara. But mids are not precisely defined or not clear as much or less weighty or all of them. After all, Sundara sounds better on mids than HEKV2.

Am I interpreting your impressions correctly?

 

[czy6412]

Well, I guess many people will not buy Sundara anyway regardless of the review.

 

[franz12]

Well, I guess many people will not buy Sundara anyway regardless of the review.

It's shame to miss this great sound headphone. Absolutely, Sundara sounds much better than HD800S to my ears.

 

[Geezer Rock 001]

Another non professional opinion. I own a pair of 800S and 400i. I liked the 400i s so much that I bought a pair of Sundaras.

The Sundaras are an outstanding pair of headphones for $500 IMO.

Also IMO you cannot A/B planar headphones versus non planar headphones by plugging them in and out of the same amp. Regardless of 300 ohms versus <50 ohms and with and without changing the jumpers or bias, the planars take more power to drive them to comparable volume levels.

I Was driving the 800S with a Little Dot MK II and now an Ember. The 400i s and now the Sundaras are much more impressive being driven by a Little Dot 1+.

Again IMO no matter how you want to slice it or dice it, the Sundaras are great cans! My experience lead me to believe that they perform best with a hybrid amp. And yes I did amp both of the planars with a solid state amp before I settled on the LD 1+ as my amp of choice.

 

[bowei006]

Another non professional opinion. I own a pair of 800S and 400i. I liked the 400i s so much that I bought a pair of Sundaras.

The Sundaras are an outstanding pair of headphones for $500 IMO.

Also IMO you cannot A/B planar headphones versus non planar headphones by plugging them in and out of the same amp. Regardless of 300 ohms versus <50 ohms and with and without changing the jumpers or bias, the planars take more power to drive them to comparable volume levels.

I Was driving the 800S with a Little Dot MK II and now an Ember. The 400i s and now the Sundaras are much more impressive being driven by a Little Dot 1+.

Again IMO no matter how you want to slice it or dice it, the Sundaras are great cans! My experience lead me to believe that they perform best with a hybrid amp. And yes I did amp both of the planars with a solid state amp before I settled on the LD 1+ as my amp of choice.

plugging them in and out of the same amp. Regardless of 300 ohms versus <50 ohms...the planars take more power to drive them to comparable volume levels.

That's why an amp does Y milliWatts @ X Ohms.

Every headphone amp has the same correlation of

Higher Y mW @ 32 ohms
Lower Z mW @ 300 ohms

Granting your amp has sufficent amperage and voltage for the total Watt output, you can drive them using the same amp.

Also note that it's not a linear correlation between power output into a headphone and the SPL it will produce and your perceived loudness. It's logarithmic and also influenced by whatever scale or stepping the correlation between volume knob (if one exists on the amp) and its output is from the manufacturer.

It's also why volume knobs exist....to turn the "power" up.

Granting that the amp you are using has sufficent "power" to drive your hardest to drive headphone. You can plug it and any others in.

Your sentiment is correct if your initial amp driving easy dynamic headphones could not fork up enough juice for the secondary harder to drive headphones. But at that point......why even make a comment? You're not comparing on equal grounds now.

 

[SilverEars]

That's why an amp does Y milliWatts @ X Ohms.

Every headphone amp has the same correlation of

Higher Y mW @ 32 ohms
Lower Z mW @ 300 ohms

That just means how much power the amp is able to deliver for different impedance sizes. Lower the impedance, more power can be fed to it, and highe the impedance, the less power can be fed to it. How loud it gets per amount of power is the sensitivity in dB/mW.

 

[bowei006]

That just means how much power the amp is able to deliver for different impedance sizes. Lower the impedance, more power can be fed to it, and highe the impedance, the less power can be fed to it. How loud it gets per amount of power is the sensitivity in dB/mW.

Correct. We are saying the same thing but in different words. I was trying to point out how this rule of thumb is essentially the same for every amp out there. And thus for an amp with sufficent 'power' for the hardest headphone to drive in an A/B pair, that it would also be fine driving the less hard one.

 

[SilverEars]

I like the feel of the headphone overall, which is a step forward for ergonomics. It feels like HD650 in the amount of clamping force, but it feels quite secure in place and probably helps seal a bit for the bass as well. It performs really well in most every other categories except vocals, sometime tracks vocals seem to recess more than others. Vocal don't seem consistent. I think this is partially due to the recording and the other part the mid recession. Also, tad lacking in vocal definition.

Looks wise, Hifiman has not really passed the design exam. Lets say that.

When there is that rock music congestion(with the distorion, drums, etc..), it sounds a bit blended in, and not sounding defined in those congested rock passages. Other than that, it performs really well.

Guitar picking sounds very quick and responsive with airy feel to them.

Compared to HE560, it has more of a quick reaction, and feels more controlled, perhaps due to the lighter drivers. Response feels quick. HE560 sounds slightly warmer in the low-end with less damped bass. Sundara has tigher bass sounding more rapid in response. Sundara also sounds more sharp in response, more snappy in tonality. Sharper, snappy tonality or punchier in a sharp way, but in a snappy sense? This sounds to be due to upper mids being more prominent than the HE560, and HE560 probably has tad more lower treble with sparkle at 7k. So, the treble is like a seesaw between the two.

I like the snappiness, and fast response. It feels really quick like electrostats.

 

[soal]

Comparing the Sundara to headphones 6 or more times their price is ridiculous.

On one hand I agree with you here. However, did you listen Sundara himself? No? It would be a good idea you'll go to local hifiman's dealer, listen for HEX(HEK)/Sundara and compare those HP one-to-one.