[quartertone]

There's quite a price difference between the EX600 and EX1000 too - would you say it's justified?

 

[Inks]

EX1000 does improve on EX600, but not enough to warrant the price difference. RE600, not sure yet but honestly doesn't seem like its an improvement, more like a sidestep.Ill rather leave benefit of the doubt for now

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

For the record, the only thing that RE-600 and RE-400 share is the housing. The driver diaphragm, coil and cable are different. 
 
HiFiMAN has had RE-600 and RE-400 at shows and everyone has been able to hear the difference between the two. Whether it is worth $300 is subjective. Some will conclude it is well worth it while others will conclude the RE-400 is a better value. That is the way it is with virtually all products and step-up models.  
 
HiFiMAN has customers for both models and we plan to add a third before the end of the year.   
 
Peter 

If so, that very much qualifies as different drivers and not tuning the same driver. People need to look at vifa or seas etc and realize that the same frame can be used on very different purpose devices. How different yours are, we don't know but some of the assumptions made on headfi are worse than the manufacturer claims they are trying to disprove.

 

[quartertone]

Quote:

EX1000 does improve on EX600, but not enough to warrant the price difference. RE600, not sure yet but honestly doesn't seem like its an improvement, more like a sidestep.Ill rather leave benefit of the doubt for now

Maybe you should hear it first. 

 

[Inks]

If so, that very much qualifies as different drivers and not tuning the same driver. People need to look at the vifa or seas etc an realize that the same frame can be used on very different purpose devices. How different yours are, we don't know but some of the assumptions made on headfi are worse than the manufacturer claims they are trying to disprove.

Lol this could turn into a silly debate, but objective data show the two behaving exactly the same in general curves despite different tonality. Similar to a EQ7 and EQ5, call it a different driver, they have very strong correlations.

You can wait till I hear it but in general FR doesn't lie, RE272 does indeed have better treble than RE400, both of which i heard, RE600 isn't showing an inprovement there....would like to see the RE600 analyzed more in depth with objective data, so more can be revealed

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

It's the same core driver with different tuned coil, diaphragm too apparently. It's exactly what I've been saying. There's nothing wrong with that (sony does the same with EX600/800/1000) but users should take note if its worth the premium based on the outcome of its tone

"users should take note if its worth the premium based on the outcome of its tone" Really? *gasp* Thanks for the great advice, Dr. Sherlocke! Here I thought head-fi was just a place where people come to dump their surplus incomes without regard to "worth" of anything. haha

Trust me, users do and will take note... but not from some guy who hasn't even heard the products in question!
Quote:

EX1000 does improve on EX600, but not enough to warrant the price difference. RE600, not sure yet but honestly doesn't seem like its an improvement, more like a sidestep.Ill rather leave benefit of the doubt for now

"not sure" Oh reeally? I thought you were %100 certain with this quote: "Honestly, after seeing RE600s graph, it seems like such a ripoff, might as well get a RE400. I had already suspected little change [same housing/same driver], but this is even less than RE272 to RE262 which were also quite close. RE600 has less treble than RE400, oh boy..." Where was the benefit of the doubt given in this post?
 
Dude, you remind of Sonic. The guy who got banned for giving specific opinions (and stating them as fact) on products he hadn't heard. However, at least the guy didn't go so far as calling products "scams" and "ripoffs." I'm surprised you haven't yet been given a warning.

 

[tinyman392]

@Inks: HiFiMan already told us through multiple people that THE DRIVERS ARE DIFFERENT. You make assumptions based on graphs, yet the IEM has YET TO RELEASE. How about this, you wait to get your hands on it and LISTEN to it and decide. I know reading is fun, but it's a pair of HEADPHONES, they make SOUND, for you to listen to. The graphs can say a lot, but we still have a long way to go before we Understand them fully. Don't pull another SM64 either where you felt qualified to say things, but declined to hear them...

 

[vwinter]

I would prefer the RE-400 remain where it is, an RE-800 released at the RE-600's price point, and the RE-600 relegated to a $250-300 price.

Hopefully the RE-800 sounding smoother than the RE-600 while at least as resolving.

For the record, the only thing that RE-600 and RE-400 share is the housing. The driver diaphragm, coil and cable are different. 

HiFiMAN has had RE-600 and RE-400 at shows and everyone has been able to hear the difference between the two. Whether it is worth $300 is subjective. Some will conclude it is well worth it while others will conclude the RE-400 is a better value. That is the way it is with virtually all products and step-up models.  

HiFiMAN has customers for both models and we plan to add a third before the end of the year.   

Peter 

Good call about another model! Now to see if it's an RE-800 or RE-500.

How does no one care about this official statement???

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Good call about another model! Now to see if it's an RE-800 or RE-500.

How does no one care about this official statement???

"We plan to add a third before the end of the year" often means end of next year is why.

 

[vwinter]

"We plan to add a third before the end of the year" often means end of next year is why.

Haha. I come for the headphones, but I stay for the rampant optimism.

 

[Muzeick]

Can you show us a graph of that optimism please? Does it have spikes? Is it balanced by deep and tight sub-cynicism? X-rays of your wallet to prove the width of your fanaticism for head-fi will also help us dispel any notion that your claims are pure marketing.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Can you show us a graph of that optimism please? Does it have spikes? Is it balanced by deep and tight sub-cynicism? X-rays of your wallet to prove the width of your fanaticism for head-fi will also help us dispel any notion that your claims are pure marketing.

That wouldn't be complete. Still needs CSD plot of Hifiman's production overhead costs, revenues and whatnot. It's very important; too much decay in the payrolls department will result in overly thick bottom line.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

I loved the 4S, don't get me wrong. Still do. Yes, it's quite open sounding despite not sounding as "fleshed out." I just get a better sense of intimacy and coziness with the 400...like petting my cats lol. I don't know about the 4S having better bass control, especially in the lowest notes where the 4S has very little dynamic range (I tested this with 30Hz sine, and it clips out before even getting loud).

 
Yes, the sub bass is a weakness of most single driver BAs, including ER4. There are plenty of dynamics far cheaper in price than RE-400 that can churn out 20 Hz with a lot more volume than ER4 can, but so what? The quality of the bass on ER4 is far superior to those cheap dynamic fart cannons. I think sub bass on headphones is often given too much importance anyway, because low frequencies below 40 Hz or so should really be reproduced by a large, dedicated, high quality subwoofer IMO, not a small headphone driver. Of course, there's nothing wrong with enjoying some "ear massage," but that's nothing compared to the full body experience of sub bass that you can get with even an inexpensive sub woofer. The frequencies that are properly reproduced on headphones, which I think begin are frequencies where our ears can actually hear the bass and not merely feel it - I would say about 40 Hz and up - the ER4S reproduces perfectly with flawless definition and accuracy that RE-400 and most other dynamics just can't touch IMO.

 

[eke2k6]

would say about 40 Hz and up - the ER4S reproduces perfectly with flawless definition and accuracy that RE-400 and most other dynamics just can't touch IMO.

I call BS.

 

[Inks]

I agree, ER4S lacks subbass as shown by the OW curve