[immtbiker]

Quote:

I was just thinking aloud.
 
I posted maybe 3 or 4 lines of information in this post, and that is about what the posts of others could be reduced to as well - the rest is, well see above.
 
My last reply wasn't targeted at you specifically, anyway, have a nice day.
 
PS: It's not my intention to stop anyone contributing around here.

OK Cool. As I said in my post, this is a Science forum and I respect that. I will stay away from including responses of emotion in this thread. There are plenty of
other threads where I can post how I "feel" about the sound, or what I get from it "emotionally", and I will do that in the proper threads.
 
I have no vested interest in the unit's measured results, good or bad. My point was stating that it still sounded good to me, regardless of how it measured.
Even though it is a science forum, people still have "unmeasured feedback", and I feel that it should should be allowed, in small quantities, to be included in the conversation.
If the majority disagrees with me, then I digress to consensus. Forums do consist largely of sharing opinions.
 
Also, that same component can be measured 5 different times, possibly yielding 5 slightly different results. I learned that from a tour of the Sure laboratories.
 
I will no longer play a role in steering this thread into an off-topic one. My apologies. Seriously.

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

OK Cool. As I said in my post, this is a Science forum and I respect that. I will stay away from including responses of emotion in this thread. There are plenty of
other threads where I can post how I "feel" about the sound, or what I get from it "emotionally", and I will do that in the proper threads.
 
I have no vested interest in the unit's measured results, good or bad. My point was stating that it still sounded good to me, regardless of how it measured.
Even though it is a science forum, people still have "unmeasured feedback", and I feel that it should should be allowed, in small quantities, to be included in the conversation.
If the majority disagrees with me, then I digress to consensus. Forums do consist largely of sharing opinions.
 
Also, that same component can be measured 5 different times, possibly yielding 5 slightly different results. I learned that from a tour of the Sure laboratories.
 
I will no longer play a role in steering this thread into an off-topic one. My apologies. Seriously.

 

I think its more interesting to see a graph or chart indicating less than stellar performance and to hear great sound only to make you wonder what I am not understanding or considering.  That's the better learning experience rather than clinging to an empirical chart and claiming omniscience on the matter then calling it quits.  

 

[DameNinngen]

     Quote:

I do not see the issue here. HiFiMAN has a designated amplifier module specifically tailored towards use with low impedance loads like IEMs and earbuds. It would be great if that module was measured instead of the old high gain standard card which was not made with in-ears in mind.
 

Hello, FrederikS|TPU.
(I'm sorry, my poor English,again.)
 
When I read your post yesterday, I did not have the material that was able to be judged.
Therefore, I decided to obtain IEM amp module in Akihabara (Yeah!), and to measure it.
The following are the results.
 
fortunately,exchange was easy.

 
 
I was surprised at the output impedance a littlebit.
...around 34 ohms Wow!　

 
Therefore (As everybody forecasts) ･･･,

 
my conclusion:
The output impedance of IEM amp module is about 34 ohms.
Therefore, the influence on the frequency response by the output impedance(especially, multi BA Driver) is larger than Default amp module(about 18 ohm).
 
so.....just in my opinion,
I think that the audition is preferable,before you bought it.　(Not like me!)
 
I am sorry in my long sentences,
thank you,

 

[anetode]

The threshold for quality from pmps is lower than most wish for in terms of RMAA measurements. A good learning experience would be to read up on those instead of arguing. And not just on message boards (looking things up, that is).
 
As for liking things in spite of measurements, look at vinyl! :O Easier to convince yourself that something sounds great than to deal with the engineering flaws.

 

[testrichard]

i m too late to join the party and too lazy to read all the post~~
 
it just makes me wonder what exactly is colorless~ neutral ~ and balanced sound ??
 
a guitar used different wood to make, made by different maker and using different material of strings with different adjustment play out different kind sound......
 
i know one thing, i like my Ultrasone pro 900 because of it's crazy bass ~ even though some said the bass is fake, but hey~ i love Hipop and RnB kind of music and the techno bass is made from mixer any way so whats real whats fake or colorless? as long as i feel good and can shake my body on the dance floor while teasing with beautiful girls, having bit of fun in the moment is what music mean to me~ its about having fun.
 
(i should not post here as i m out of topic, my bad)

 

[electropop]

That's what the argument is about.
 
There's nothing wrong with liking a "fun" or "colored" presentation. Just that the product shouldn't be called hi-fi and the justification for the price is difficult given the RMAA measurements.

 

[bangraman]

What a fascinating discussion.
 
 
I don't think we'll ever know for sure until some enterprising guy sticks a factory-set Cowon inside an equally impressive case and tells you that it costs $999, will we?

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

 Just that the product shouldn't be called hi-fi and the justification for the price is difficult given the RMAA measurements.

Hi-Fi has been a word that has been thrown around too loosely, just like "audiophile".
 
We have to just take it with a grain of salt. In the 90's, products started hitting the shelves everywhere with the word "natural" on the
package everywhere...the only problem is that sugar is "natural" whether or not your body can break it down easily or not.
 
Sales and reality tend to blur.
 

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Hi-Fi has been a word that has been thrown around too loosely, just like "audiophile".
 
We have to just take it with a grain of salt. In the 90's, products started hitting the shelves everywhere with the word "natural" on the
package everywhere...the only problem is that sugar is "natural" whether or not your body can break it down easily or not.
 
Sales and reality tend to blur.
 

It's a word that shouldn't just be thrown around.  It used to stand for a set of standards till it got gutted for marketing.
 
There's HiFi, then there's "HiFi" - the only way to tell one from the other is the graphs some people here seem to hate so much.

 

[Edwood]

Most people fall into one of these two camps:
 
- People who rationalize not spending a lot of money.
 
- People who rationalize spending a lot of money.
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Most people fall into one of these two camps:
 
- People who rationalize not spending a lot of money.
 
- People who rationalize spending a lot of money.

That's much too simple.
 
Everyone has their breaking point, the point where spending more won't give them enough benefit to justify the cost. That point is "a lot of money", and everything beyond it is "too much money". "A lot of money" differs for every person, so "two camps" is impossible.
 
Unfortunately for "hi-fi" (or fortunately, depends on which way you look at it), that point is the same if the consumer thinks they're getting enough benefit as it is if the consumer really is getting enough benefit. Placebo and all that.

 

[Blueswyh]

I think, first, FR does not equal to what we hear.
second, just as immtbiker stated, whether or not will you pay for the little differences is really matters.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

That's much too simple.
 
Everyone has their breaking point, the point where spending more won't give them enough benefit to justify the cost. That point is "a lot of money", and everything beyond it is "too much money". "A lot of money" differs for every person, so "two camps" is impossible.
 
Unfortunately for "hi-fi" (or fortunately, depends on which way you look at it), that point is the same if the consumer thinks they're getting enough benefit as it is if the consumer really is getting enough benefit. Placebo and all that.

Well put.
 
 
Having said that, if 'spending a lot of money' is not ultimately a big deal in the market under discussion for you, and you do have half an objective brain, it gets even more confusing as complete BS tends to coexist with some element of merit in the marketplace of the 'high end'. And audio is perhaps a more unusual marketplace in that both the people who sell you complete BS and products that are engineered objectively equally actually personally believe in their product, along with a buyer base that is equally passionate about products developed either way. If this translated to the aircraft industry for example however, half of the planes wouldn't fly.
 
 
These days I'm just counting on something not to offend my sonic palate, be comfy and to look nice. But I'm not going to tell you it sounds much better because it's made out of heavier gauge alloy or wood.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

... if 'spending a lot of money' is not ultimately a big deal in the market under discussion for you, and you do have half an objective brain, it gets even more confusing as complete BS tends to coexist with some element of merit in the marketplace of the 'high end'. And audio is perhaps a more unusual marketplace in that both the people who sell you complete BS and products that are engineered objectively equally actually personally believe in their product, along with a buyer base that is equally passionate about products developed either way. If this translated to the aircraft industry for example however, half of the planes wouldn't fly.

Indeed, I find Stereophile reviews/measurements to be a good example of this kind of split-personality. You can see the graphs for products that are frankly apalling by any rational definition of high fidelity side by side with CD players with admirably flat FRs. The really amusing part is that the reviewers frequently cannot hear just how *terrible* some of the bad products (such as a cable with 10% distortion or a NOS CD player with 25% distortion up to 100hz) really are. This also illustrates the problem of sighted reviews where you know how pretty and/or expensive the products under review are...
 

 

[fark]

This have been very funny to read, most of it anyway!

 
Emotions, emotions...  However, I think it´s good that dfkt started this dicussion, the tradgic thing to me seems to be moore of people trying to forse thier supposedly correct ideal down the thoaths of others, waivering graphs, thronging around namnes etc..
Grownups should have no problem accepting what others thought of a particullary player after having listened to it, it seems we all have different ideals anyhow, but that´s just my humble opinion. 
 
Anyway, I´m new to all this audio stuff and just ordered the 801, can probably take my money back tho since it hasn´t been shipped yet?  (or at least I don´t think it has?)
But I´m not going to, to me graphs and "bashing vs fanboyism" doesn´t meen "@#/´¤ ! 
I´m simply going to recieve my product, pack it upp, load it with music and start listening to it for at least a week before I make my mind up about anything, but that would be my normal approach to anything so nothing unusal there.  When i do start listening I will do it with an open mind, if I for any reason shouldn´t like it I´ll just sell it, no harm done!
 
I am curious tho and I´m looking forward to it, especially to compare it to the Clip+ I have been using for a while now. But probably I don´t have good enough gear for the Clip+ sinse I don´t like the way it sound at all, or pherhaps it´s a combination between to cheap gear and having non audiofile ears?
 
I senserly appologize if I somehow said the wrong things or have a non accepted opinion, also my english isn´t the best but thats a completely different matter.
 
Till later m8´s