Hifiman HE1000 Planar Dynamic Headphone
Apr 18, 2017 at 12:33 AM Post #9,196 of 14,627
Last night:
>I've been reading through this thread while listening to a few sets of my headphones.  I've been listening mostly through Tidal Masters and a lot to the Album by Brad Mehldau "Mehliana". If you want an album that will test the bottom limits of your gear this it.  I'm a recent full blown convert to headphones, not because I wanted to I was forced to, living in an apartment now, with new neighbors upstairs my big rig is in hibernation mode.  Just to give you an idea of my rig:
Vapor Audio Joule (many upgrades), Odyssey Kismet hybrid preamp, Kismet mono bloc amps, PS Audio Directstream DAC and PS Audio transport, Antipodes DX Music Server, with Verastarr Silver cabling.
My headphone rig has not quite caught up with my big rig:
Headphones:  Hifiman HE1000 V2, Focal Elear, Audeze LCD X, Final Audio Pandora VI, Sony 1000X Noise Cancelling Headphones, Campfire Andromeda & Nova IEM, JH Audio Roxanne series I, JH Audio JH16 custom,  Nuforce HEM8, Final Audio  Heaven V aging.  Music player A&K 320, Antipodes and  OPPO DVD; Amps:  Cavalli Carbon, Audeze Deckard, Schiit Jotunheim, Chord Mojo and an old Hifiman Tube headphone amp (rarely use).  Dacs:  Schiit Multibit Modi, Mojo and PS Audio Directstream.
I really don't understand the complaints about Hifiman build quality, I guess it boils down to personal taste.  It appears Hifiman was going more for Art Deco a south beach kind of touch, instead of that purely masculine hard look like my Focal Elears.  I like the wood and metal non traditional look given to the HE1000 V2s, they get a lot of attention from non audiophiles.  I was not an owner of the V1 so cannot reflect on their build.  The Elear on the other hand is built like a tank, but I do not see anything special regardintg their looks.  The Audeze are heavy cans and have since been retired because of their darker tonality.  
The first thing I noticed about the Hifiman is how there character changes with the change in amplification.  I'm sure I haven't scratched the surface with the HE 1000 V2 until I get a better amplifier or the HE adapter maybe hook them up to my Odyssey gear.  What I notice  listening between the Elear and the HE 1000 is the HE 1000 on my gear mostly tonight using A&K 320 and Mojo is how much deeper the HE 1000 gets into the recording, things like foot pedals on keyboard, bass player humming etc., where I can still hear them on the Elear, it is not as noticeable.  the Elear is punchy and exciting, the HE1000 much more dynamically accurate to me.  Bass is very deep on both phones, again listening to the synth bass on Brad Mehldau "Angry Ghost", to my ears HE 1000 is much more accurate.  On music which has complex passages the Elear's seem to slip a bit sounding a little confused, less distinguished, not in a game ending way, just not as clean or delineated as the HE 1000,  Vocals are beautifully rendered by both headphones, again based on tonight listening to Joni Mitchell Mingus I preferred the HE1000 V2's.  
At this point I think the Elears mate well with the above mentioned amplifiers  and may also improve with better power, I think the HIfiman will definitely benefit from better amplification, perhaps tubes...  For now when I'm in my fun mode I'll listen to the Elear's, when I'm in my serious listening mode I'll take the HE 1000 V2.  For the money the Elear's are ridiculously good, the Hifiman HE 1000's are great.  Hopefully in the near future I'll be able to hear the Utopias.  I started to purchase the B&W P9 but I think I'll wait until September for the  Klipch Heritage, they are suppose t:joy:o compete with the big boys at $999. I heard the Ether's, 800S, various Grado's and others at shows, for my money I bought the Elear's and HE 1000's based on show listening and am glad I did.
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 1:15 AM Post #9,197 of 14,627
Night 2:
Tonight I listened to the Schiit Jotunheim and Modi Multibit, went back, to some tracks from last night, thought the HE 1000s sounded less "relaxed" more forward, not as musical as with the Mojo. Just like I stated last night, the character of the HE 1000 changes with the equipment, much more critical of it's downstream teammates. Hopefully I'll get my Cavalli Carbon back from the factory soon. I'm dying to try the HE1000s with the Ragnarok or the new Hugo2. The Elear on the other hand seemed to mate much better, with the Jotunheim and Multibit Modi...
Since the DAC has been off I'm going to let in warm up overnight,it's been playing for about an hour, to be fair. I feel impatient tonight, almost irritated with overall character of HE 1000 and Schiit combo, More so with the seemingly bright character of this combo. Also, bass on Brad's "Angry Ghost" seem to have lost some of it's immediacy and impact with the Schiit combo.
Maybe it's me, try again tomorrow as I've lost my patience with this combo, going to finish listening with the much more forgiving Elear. Immediately my ears indicate Elear much better match to the Schiit combo. Bass impact returns, biting treble has been eradicated, much smoother.
.The little Mojo definitely plays above it's price point with the HE 1000s, as last night was much better to these ears.
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 1:39 AM Post #9,198 of 14,627
Night 2:
Tonight I listened to the Schiit Jotunheim and Modi Multibit, went back, to some tracks from last night, thought the HE 1000s sounded less "relaxed" more forward, not as musical as with the Mojo. Just like I stated last night, the character of the HE 1000 changes with the equipment, much more critical of it's downstream teammates. Hopefully I'll get my Cavalli Carbon back from the factory soon. I'm dying to try the HE1000s with the Ragnarok or the new Hugo2. The Elear on the other hand seemed to mate much better, with the Jotunheim and Multibit Modi...
Since the DAC has been off I'm going to let in warm up overnight,it's been playing for about an hour, to be fair. I feel impatient tonight, almost irritated with overall character of HE 1000 and Schiit combo, More so with the seemingly bright character of this combo. Also, bass on Brad's "Angry Ghost" seem to have lost some of it's immediacy and impact with the Schiit combo.
Maybe it's me, try again tomorrow as I've lost my patience with this combo, going to finish listening with the much more forgiving Elear. Immediately my ears indicate Elear much better match to the Schiit combo. Bass impact returns, biting treble has been eradicated, much smoother.
.The little Mojo definitely plays above it's price point with the HE 1000s, as last night was much better to these ears.

Totally agree on both your take on the lack of synergy between HE1000/Schiit products (at least the budget Schiit stuff) and the amazing synergy between the HE1000/Mojo.  
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 3:08 AM Post #9,200 of 14,627
Hopefully I'll get my Cavalli Carbon back from the factory soon. I'm dying to try the HE1000s with the Ragnarok or the new Hugo2.

 
The Liquid Carbon, for a budget amp, is very nice with the HE-1000, I used it for a while myself.
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 7:17 AM Post #9,201 of 14,627
Any Dave users here? Do you use a separate headphone amp to drive the v2 or is the headphone out good enough?


Good enough isn't exactly the appropriate characterization, I would say it's close to perfect (I'm talking of a modified and equalized V1, though). I would never want to destroy this purity by having the signal run through a bunch of additional electronics components.
 
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Apr 18, 2017 at 11:06 AM Post #9,202 of 14,627
I suppose you have to use a headphone amp in between the Mojo and the HE1000, no?


Nope. I wouldn't. Sounds pretty damn good without one even though it's obvious the HE1000s could use a little more juice. I tried an amp with it and it didn't sounds good. The chord Mojo and Hugo seem like they like to play by themselves without any other components messing with their sound.
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 12:38 PM Post #9,203 of 14,627
   
Good enough isn't exactly the appropriate characterization, I would say it's close to perfect (I'm talking of a modified and equalized V1, though). I would never want to destroy this purity by having the signal run through a bunch of additional electronics components.

 
How do you EQ the v1?
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 12:49 PM Post #9,204 of 14,627
 
  Good enough isn't exactly the appropriate characterization, I would say it's close to perfect (I'm talking of a modified and equalized V1, though). I would never want to destroy this purity by having the signal run through a bunch of additional electronics components.

 
How do you EQ the v1?

 
There are corresponding links in my post. But note that the curve is meant for my ears. I'm not sure to what extent it's compatible with others'.
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 2:00 PM Post #9,205 of 14,627
I enjoyed listening from my A&K 320 to Mojo to HE 1000 V2, though a little more juice (not for volume) for bass control would be good. I have used the Mojo with the liquid carbon and as I recall it was a good combo. Carbon seems to go deeper into the mix, but it has been a while since I listened.
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 3:44 PM Post #9,206 of 14,627
  Good enough isn't exactly the appropriate characterization, I would say it's [DAVE+HEK] close to perfect (I'm talking of a modified and equalized V1, though). I would never want to destroy this purity by having the signal run through a bunch of additional electronics components.

I fully agree with this, based on my experience with my (un-modded) HEK V2. Partly because I feel the HEK scales particularly well with a transparent source/amp (as opposed to a nice/smoothing source/amp) . And partly because I can make use of DAVE's cross-feed which helps to give HEK's large sound stage a better proportion of less width, more depth and more solid central images. Once you get used to the cross-feed on the HEK, there's no going back.
 
I think the HEK V2 also benefits from some EQ, although I guess less so than the V1 (based on other people's comments, as I haven't heard the V1).
I simply add a 3db dip at around 8.3khz, Q=2, which reduces the FR between around 7khz to 10khz. I don't claim this is optimum, it's just what I've settled on to remove a slight thinness to (for example) female vocals. I could probably refine this some more, but it's enough for now.
 
I use Roon's software parametric EQ, which works well. As cross-feed inherently adds some bass boost, I counteract this with some mild bass reduction in EQ - based on JaZZ's suggestion in the DAVE thread.  Thank you for that JaZZ - it does seem to reclaim some transparency that gets lost by cross-feed's bass boost - I'll report back later with more details in the DAVE thread, 
 
At a UK head-fi meet recently, I briefly heard a £12k head amp (a beautiful, tubed, heavyweight, Italian model called Stella from memory) with an unfamiliar source and it sounded generally lovely with my HEK V2s. But I still preferred my laptop/microRendu/DAVE directly driving my HEK V2s. The Stella did some nice things, but once I've latched on to the higher transparency possible with DAVE's direct output, it's hard to accept alternatives, however "nice" they may sound. Because IMO there's nothing nicer than a feeling of "you are there". 
 
Caveat: you can't just throw  these components together and expect magic from the start. I've had to work at small details to get my source to sound decent - and even now I feel I've barely scratched the surface. Even since that meet a few weeks ago, I've tweaked in a few improvements. An audiophile's journey never ends.    
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 6:57 PM Post #9,207 of 14,627
Good enough isn't exactly the appropriate characterization, I would say it's close to perfect (I'm talking of a modified and equalized V1, though). I would never want to destroy this purity by having the signal run through a bunch of additional electronics components.


I totally agree with this statement. Something I have always believed whole-heartedly is the shorter the audio chain the better. I never liked the idea of using a lot of devices (especially in the headphone world) as it just gives more potential for degradation. Even if all your gear is TOTL.. it still slowly will diminish the quality as you add more wires and gear. I try to take a completely purist approach and only use the fewest and highest quality components.

It's one of the reasons I adore the new WM1Z. One device with good enough amplification in balanced to power most of my headphones including 800S. I respect the Dave as a desktop device for the same reasons..
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 11:05 PM Post #9,209 of 14,627
@tuna47

I was running my HE500 and HE560 out of Burson. It's been quite some time...I picked up the HEK V1 about the same time as my HeadAmp GS-X MkII.

I'll have to fire up the Burson and give them a listen.

Are you looking for anything specific? And you may be looking for the pairing wrt the V2?
 
Apr 18, 2017 at 11:58 PM Post #9,210 of 14,627
I don't know tonight getting pretty decent results from AK320 (tidal) toslink to Mojo mini to XLR to Jotenheim. The Mojo has a smooth DAC section and the soundstage for one is much wider, listening to a live version of Stimela. Diana Krall "let it rain" smooth, layered and wide soundstage, a real test of soundstage width is Macy Gray's Stripped someone out there try "Annabelle" and verify my finding, wall to wall, layered.... On Brad Mehmeldau the taught, deep synth bass was back in all it's glory. Instrumental separation and air are well defined. Now I have the urge to get a Chord Hugo 2 or a Wells or other top tier amplifier and use my Antipodes and PS Audio Directsrream DAC which should have a much lower noise floor...
Still a hint of fatigue that I didn't get when using just the AK and Mojo, but I'm sure the soundstage was a little narrower in that setup, also I believe the Jot Mojo combo has greater slam.
Also don't forget to press all three buttons when cutting the Mojo on to the 3v setting (two blue lights).
 

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