[zolkis]

 
I really have no skin in this game either way, but doesn't the HD800 (not 800S) have a flawed sound as well? And for years it was "the" best headphone in the consumer world (besides Stax products). I've personally never heard the HD800, but anyone with a basic understanding of the headphone community knows it has a really hot treble. Dealers didn't seem to have a problem pushing it, though.

 
Right, and it took too long time for Sennheiser to land the HD800S. There is chance Mr Fang is more responsive than Sennheiser. Which would be nice, since you could work around the HD800 issue (e.g. the Anaxylus mod), whereas currently there is no known way to fix the HE1000 sound falling apart. Of course only some dealers backed off, where this issue has crossed some specific line.  Of course, there are alternatives, but it's getting increasingly more expensive to keep around TOTL headphones just to have a sum of the parts they are doing well .

 

[adamaley]

   
There is not a "peak" really, but a tendency to sound a bit "harder" on the midrange (using the EF-6 amp) when compared to my Stax 007 Mk1 and 009. It may be related to that. The SR-009 seems to also have a slight bump around 4 kHz, but it does not make the sound harder in the sense the HE1000 does, it's just more clear. However, when I used a tube amp with the HE1000, the midrange hardness was much less, so it may have been caused by improper synergy with the EF6 or the source. Anyway it's less hard than say the HD800 can sound. So I would not consider this a problem for the HE1000.
 
The biggest problem I still have with the HE1000 is sub-par coherence across the frequency range, it doesn't sing with "one voice", especially in the bass. Like there would be multiple detached speakers around my ear. The HD800 doesn't have that. I also share the opinion that the EF6+HE6 is more coherent and overall a more rewarding musical experience with the music I like (instrumental, jazz, small chamber, symphonic, electronic). I think we can say what are mainly lacking here is a good amp for the HE1000, but in the hope that Hifiman fixes this, I go and say that despite some world-class qualities, the HE1000 has a flawed sound and needs to be fixed. I heard dealers stating they didn't want to carry the HE1000 for the same reason.

I think the problem here lies in relying on the manufacturer to fill the void of the 'best amp' for their own headphone creation. These are headphone manufacturers first and foremost, who dabble in amplifier creation as auxiliary product to maximize revenue. I know, the word 'auxiliary' stings when the amp usually costs more than the headphones, but that's because the market expects/bears the fact that amps should cost more than headphones. I don't think we should be relying on Hifiman to fix the amplifier issues. You should be exploring the amps of many of the members of trade on here as well as elsewhere. There are great values to be had - from the Schiit Valhalla to the MicroZOTL2 to the EC2A3MKIV. The last one, maybe not so much of a value proposition, but you catch my drift.

 

[zolkis]

I know Hifiman has been working on an amp for the HE1000, but in this case by "Hifiman fixing this" I meant they should fix the headphone. 

 

[adamaley]

Problem is it sure doesn't seem broken to most of the people on here, including myself. Does it have its own peculiar drawbacks? Yes - all headphones compromise in some aspects. Being incoherent is definitely not one of them to my ears. This is the appreciation thread however, so you must understand if it seems you are preaching to a different denomination's choir. 
 
Edit: I will suggest replacing the EF6. I heard the HE1K for the first time on that amp, and it left many things to be desired.

 

[pavement714]

  I know Hifiman has been working on an amp for the HE1000, but in this case by "Hifiman fixing this" I meant they should fix the headphone. 

So if you were to recommend an "endgame" headphone right now, it would be the HD800S? I've gotta say I thought my "no object" purchase would be the HE-1000, but the HD800S is having me intrigued. I like the idea of the manufacturer fixing criticisms vs. me having to mod the headphone to fix them. 

 

[zolkis]

  So if you were to recommend an "endgame" headphone right now, it would be the HD800S? I've gotta say I thought my "no object" purchase would be the HE-1000, but the HD800S is having me intrigued. I like the idea of the manufacturer fixing criticisms vs. me having to mod the headphone to fix them. 

 
I am not an explicit HD800 fan, and I have not heard the HD800S. Brightness is not my main problem with them: it's the relative hardness and the technical character of the sound. They are coherent, revealing, first rate pro monitors, but I can understand why many people prefer the HE1000.
 
However, I consider it better than almost every other TOTL headphone out there, so yes, you may be completely satisfied with the HD800S, especially for the price, but it's personal, and you might end up missing some musical "soul", depending on your musical preferences and ancillary gear.
 
I like every good sounding Stax headphone more. You can try one or more of these: SR-007 Mk1 + 009 ear pads, SR-Omega, SR-009, SR-007A/Mk2, L700 and also the older 404/Sig, 207, 202, SR-Lambda normal bias, SR-5. In turn, I didn't like either Audeze (I haven't heard the 4): I do like open, natural sound, and while I am a kind of bass head, the Audeze headphones failed my minimum requirement on openness, with the eventual exception of the LCD-X, which in turn sounded less natural than the 3. I'd rather EQ the HD800S or HD800, or either Stax. If price is a concern, IMHO the Stax L700 is better for domestic music listening than the HD800 in every respect (even approaching it in sound stage), and you don't need EQ on the bass. The 007 and 009 are on another level of resolving the music, though. I know I differ on this from e.g. Tyll who has a good name, but it shows how subjectively diverse this hobby is, and also, how much it depends on your music of choice.

 

[zolkis]

Being incoherent is definitely not one of them to my ears. This is the appreciation thread however, so you must understand if it seems you are preaching to a different denomination's choir. 

 
Yes, you are right, I am not here to bash. Earlier I did praise the HE1000 for what it does well, and also suggested changes, such as smaller area or different form factor diaphragm (or thicker, see the Orpheus 2 discussion thread). I genuinely believe the HE1000 could be much improved, and this was the first time I lost patience and have given it an assertive expression. There too many cases that people try to fix headphones and speakers with amps of complementary character, and this practice is a wrong focus IMHO and drives the industry and these forums on wrong paths.
Yes, I know how hard is to experiment, tweak, try, fail, start all over, go sideways with thought-to-be-perfect designs, etc. I have done my share both with speakers and headphones, and I've seen products that sound good without the makers being completely aware of exactly why (evident from their followup products). The main reason for that is limited time and resources. But the point is that manufacturers get free, and often high quality feedback on these forums, and Mr Fang is one of the ones who seem to be listening . So please, listen .
Point made, and with that, I finished the rant .

 

[doctorjazz]

Personally, I've never heard anything that is "perfect" (whatever that would be), and $100K systems can have some weaknesses. System matching is always essential imo, it is not a sign of bad design. In fact, what sounds great to one listener doesn't appeal to another, and there is some "voicing" involved in all gear.
My $0.02

 

[Khragon]

Personally, I've never heard anything that is "perfect" (whatever that would be), and $100K systems can have some weaknesses. System matching is always essential imo, it is not a sign of bad design. In fact, what sounds great to one listener doesn't appeal to another, and there is some "voicing" involved in all gear.
My $0.02

+1. Every time I put on the HEK after listening to my HD800S I feel like I am more there at the performance. Sure there's a slight harshness to the treble (7k? I don't know ), but everything else is just spot on. Looking forward getting my norne draug v2 cable to see if that'll help tame the treble.

 

[sheldaze]

 
There is not a "peak" really, but a tendency to sound a bit "harder" on the midrange (using the EF-6 amp) when compared to my Stax 007 Mk1 and 009. It may be related to that. The SR-009 seems to also have a slight bump around 4 kHz, but it does not make the sound harder in the sense the HE1000 does, it's just more clear. However, when I used a tube amp with the HE1000, the midrange hardness was much less, so it may have been caused by improper synergy with the EF6 or the source. Anyway it's less hard than say the HD800 can sound. So I would not consider this a problem for the HE1000.
 
The biggest problem I still have with the HE1000 is sub-par coherence across the frequency range, it doesn't sing with "one voice", especially in the bass. Like there would be multiple detached speakers around my ear. The HD800 doesn't have that. I also share the opinion that the EF6+HE6 is more coherent and overall a more rewarding musical experience with the music I like (instrumental, jazz, small chamber, symphonic, electronic). I think we can say what are mainly lacking here is a good amp for the HE1000, but in the hope that Hifiman fixes this, I go and say that despite some world-class qualities, the HE1000 has a flawed sound and needs to be fixed. I heard dealers stating they didn't want to carry the HE1000 for the same reason.

This is what I believe is the key difference between HE1000 and HD800S, in my listening. A friend and I (fixed my grammar) actually did a comparison last night, stock cables. First listening to the system through speakers, so we could both listen and pick a track - then through headphones. We used almost the same setups as in my signature, only Yggdrasil was the common DAC:
 
Oppo BDP-105 > Yggdrasil > Ragnarok > HE-1000
Oppo BDP-105 > Yggdrasil > Sonett > HD800S
 
Though I truly enjoy the HE1000, the "one voice" was what I think we both picked up on. It was a coherent, singular image through the HD800S.

 

[doctorjazz]

Personally, I've never heard anything that is "perfect" (whatever that would be), and $100K systems can have some weaknesses. System matching is always essential imo, it is not a sign of bad design. In fact, what sounds great to one listener doesn't appeal to another, and there is some "voicing" involved in all gear.
My $0.02

+1. Every time I put on the HEK after listening to my HD800S I feel like I am more there at the performance. Sure there's a slight harshness to the treble (7k? I don't know ), but everything else is just spot on. Looking forward getting my norne draug v2 cable to see if that'll help tame the treble.

I got the Zoetic from Norne, found it did help, think you'll be happy.

 

[1BADJAD]

Sorry experts!  Call me slow, but I couldn't find the proper forum for my question.  If someone can point me to a link, I'd be happy to ask my questions there.  Thanks for all the guidance/help I've received so far BTW.  Here goes...my Burson Conductor SL ESS9018 doesn't support native DSD playback, but I'm able to play a SACD iso (or associated DSD files) just fine in Foobar2000 with the proper add-ons.  I just purchased an Auralic Taurus MKII & Vega combo which has native DSD support.  Is there a difference between the two (Foobar -vs- a DAC with built in support for DSD)?

 

[pavement714]

Well thanks to a great fellow Head-Fi member I am going to be the owner of a HE-1000 at a nice discount. Can't wait to see how they sound. I don't own the HD800 but I think I'll listen to them at my local hifi shop this weekend to compare.

 

[chowmein83]

  Well thanks to a great fellow Head-Fi member I am going to be the owner of a HE-1000 at a nice discount. Can't wait to see how they sound. I don't own the HD800 but I think I'll listen to them at my local hifi shop this weekend to compare.

 
Nice! I think you'll like them, as a fellow 400i owner.

 

[ohhgourami]

   
There is not a "peak" really, but a tendency to sound a bit "harder" on the midrange (using the EF-6 amp) when compared to my Stax 007 Mk1 and 009. It may be related to that. The SR-009 seems to also have a slight bump around 4 kHz, but it does not make the sound harder in the sense the HE1000 does, it's just more clear. However, when I used a tube amp with the HE1000, the midrange hardness was much less, so it may have been caused by improper synergy with the EF6 or the source. Anyway it's less hard than say the HD800 can sound. So I would not consider this a problem for the HE1000.
 
The biggest problem I still have with the HE1000 is sub-par coherence across the frequency range, it doesn't sing with "one voice", especially in the bass. Like there would be multiple detached speakers around my ear. The HD800 doesn't have that. I also share the opinion that the EF6+HE6 is more coherent and overall a more rewarding musical experience with the music I like (instrumental, jazz, small chamber, symphonic, electronic). I think we can say what are mainly lacking here is a good amp for the HE1000, but in the hope that Hifiman fixes this, I go and say that despite some world-class qualities, the HE1000 has a flawed sound and needs to be fixed. I heard dealers stating they didn't want to carry the HE1000 for the same reason.

 
Amazing amps won't fix those issues with the HEK, trust me. I've tried everything I could before I gave up on it.