[seanwee]

Quantity wise, the Audezes generally have more bass. However, I find that their bass isn't very tight and have a softer impact compared to hifimans. This is most prominent on the LCD 3 imo. I've not heard the LCD4 so I can't comment about that.

The HEK V2 is quite loose in the bass for a hifiman imo. Even my Sundaras have a tighter and more impactful bass. Quantity wise the sundaras are just a touch above neutral though.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Quantity wise, the Audezes generally have more bass. However, I find that their bass isn't very tight and have a softer impact compared to hifimans. This is most prominent on the LCD 3 imo. I've not heard the LCD4 so I can't comment about that.

The HEK V2 is quite loose in the bass for a hifiman imo. Even my Sundaras have a tighter and more impactful bass. Quantity wise the sundaras are just a touch above neutral though.

I agree. It’s weird that lower end Hifiman models have tighter bass than their flagship, but the HEX V2 is definitely tighter and more controlled.

 

[seanwee]

Lots of subjectivity here. I will try to establish more of a baseline (haha). All HiFiMans lack bass compared to Audeze LCD and ZMF planars and the Abyss AB-1266 models. When you say bassy planars, indeed I'd hope you aren't including HiFiMans because personally none of them fit that bill for me.

So yes, all electrostats have less bass than the Audeze LCD lineup, ZMF planars, and Abyss AB-1266 models. But NOT compared to HiFiMan. All HiFiMans lack bass compared to those planars as well, both quantity and quality for HiFiMan while only quantity for the SR-007 and SR-009.

I'm going to try to borrow a Susvara. I have no experience with that one but again I expect underwhelming bass quantity and quality compared to the LCDs, ZMF, Abyss, and especially SR-009.

Can you share some of the tracks you use to test the bass of any headphones?

I just recently got a pair of IT01s and when it's compared to my echobox finders, it's bass is looser and softer (Similar to how I think of Audezes vs hifimans) . However, it's not necessarily a bad thing as I find that this looser and softer presentation actually has a more realistic rendering of drums. However, when it comes to digitally rendered bass, it doesn't perform as well as the echobox finders.

So what I think is, depending on what songs you listen to, one headphone may sound better than the other and vice versa.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Can you share some of the tracks you use to test the bass of any headphones?

I just recently got a pair of IT01s and when it's compared to my echobox finders, it's bass is looser and softer (Similar to how I think of Audezes vs hifimans) . However, it's not necessarily a bad thing as I find that this looser and softer presentation actually has a more realistic rendering of drums. However, when it comes to digitally rendered bass, it doesn't perform as well as the echobox finders.

So what I think is, depending on what songs you listen to, one headphone may sound better than the other and vice versa.

Eagles - Hotel California
Firelake - Radioactive album
Rage Against the Machine - Pretty much every album in its entirety though some songs are better bass tests than others, don't remember exactly which off hand but I can check my notes later
The Eminem Show album

I'd say your suspicion is correct in general, though for me the LCD-4 bass just obliterates any HiFiMan for all music, and very surprisingly for me I prefer the SR-009 bass to that of the LCD-4 in any and all music.

 

[bagwell359]

Not all Audeze LCD bass is ruler flat. I’ve seen measurements of the LCD 2 series that had elevated mid bass, but that was for older models.

I owned the LCD-2 '14 Fazor for a brief time and I found the bass to be sloppy and clearly leak into the lower mids. It's particularly bloated/rubbery with fast sustain and slow sustain bass instruments going at the same time. The HE-500 can slide into this territory a bit, but not as badly. The HD-600 certainly lacks heft in the bass, but the speed and tonality certainly shows how far from neutral the LCD2 is. More bass is certainly not better bass - a battle I had vs a roommate that had huge BIC speakers/Pioneer Rec and an S tone arm with a AT14 vs my majestic (for its time) ProAc EBS Monitors/Threshold Stasis 3/ARC SP-10, and an Oracle with a FR-64 and FR Mk13F.

Never heard the LCD-4, but the LCD-3 briefly, that was better, but the upper mids and upper treble were MIA.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I owned the LCD-2 '14 Fazor for a brief time and I found the bass to be sloppy and clearly leak into the lower mids. It's particularly bloated/rubbery with fast sustain and slow sustain bass instruments going at the same time. The HE-500 can slide into this territory a bit, but not as badly. The HD-600 certainly lacks heft in the bass, but the speed and tonality certainly shows how far from neutral the LCD2 is. More bass is certainly not better bass - a battle I had vs a roommate that had huge BIC speakers/Pioneer Rec and an S tone arm with a AT14 vs my majestic (for its time) ProAc EBS Monitors/Threshold Stasis 3/ARC SP-10, and an Oracle with a FR-64 and FR Mk13F.

Never heard the LCD-4, but the LCD-3 briefly, that was better, but the upper mids and upper treble were MIA.

I pretty much agree with every word of this.

 

[SilverEars]

Eagles - Hotel California
Firelake - Radioactive album
Rage Against the Machine - Pretty much every album in its entirety though some songs are better bass tests than others, don't remember exactly which off hand but I can check my notes later
The Eminem Show album

I'd say your suspicion is correct in general, though for me the LCD-4 bass just obliterates any HiFiMan for all music, and very surprisingly for me I prefer the SR-009 bass to that of the LCD-4 in any and all music.

Have you tried various amps with 009? It's kinds bass-lite in my view. I find HEK to have more bass.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I owned the LCD-2 '14 Fazor for a brief time and I found the bass to be sloppy and clearly leak into the lower mids. It's particularly bloated/rubbery with fast sustain and slow sustain bass instruments going at the same time. The HE-500 can slide into this territory a bit, but not as badly. The HD-600 certainly lacks heft in the bass, but the speed and tonality certainly shows how far from neutral the LCD2 is. More bass is certainly not better bass - a battle I had vs a roommate that had huge BIC speakers/Pioneer Rec and an S tone arm with a AT14 vs my majestic (for its time) ProAc EBS Monitors/Threshold Stasis 3/ARC SP-10, and an Oracle with a FR-64 and FR Mk13F.

Never heard the LCD-4, but the LCD-3 briefly, that was better, but the upper mids and upper treble were MIA.

Yeah the treble and perhaps upper mids (depending on how you define upper mids exactly) is crap on every Audeze LCD to me. Despite my HiFiMan bass criticism above, I heavily favor HiFiMan sound over Audeze due to upper mid/lower treble recession ruining the Audezes. At least higher end HiFiMan headphones don't have anything that ruins them in terms of sound, nothing is awful with their sound.

Have you tried various amps with 009? It's kinds bass-lite in my view. I find HEK to have more bass.

I have listened to the SR-009 briefly with the Woo Audio WES, a few times with the BHSE, and of course a ton with my KGSSHV Carbon.

But what I can't stress enough is how much impact DAC has, on bass and everything else. And even interconnects. The SR-009 is so insanely revealing that it changes more with DACs and interconnects than any non electrostat by far. Going from a Holo Audio Spring DAC level 3 or Denafrips Venus to a Chord Hugo 2, with a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE, is like a new headphone upgrade. That substantial.

So while the KGSSHV Carbon has the most and best quality bass of any electrostat amp, perhaps tied with the T2 and Grounded Grid (zero experience with those), I have indeed made my SR-009 bass light. Basically no bass impact even with the Carbon. Using a Chord Mojo as a DAC will do this, even the Denafrips Venus to a lesser extent. Even using a Hugo 2 with cheap interconnects like Audioquest Forest will make the bass pretty crappy, worse than a good HE1000 system I think.

Gotta use a really good DAC like a Chord Hugo 2 or DAVE or Hugo TT 2 I'm sure, I'd have faith in really high end DACs with a solid I/V stage (not using an opamp for I/V conversion, e.g. Audio Note DAC Signature 5.1 or Aries Cerat Kassandra). And you must use good interconnects like Kimber Kable Hero or better.

I wouldn't touch an SR-009 if I didn't intend to splurge on the rest of the system.

 

[kid vic]

Yeah the treble and perhaps upper mids (depending on how you define upper mids exactly) is crap on every Audeze LCD to me. Despite my HiFiMan bass criticism above, I heavily favor HiFiMan sound over Audeze due to upper mid/lower treble recession ruining the Audezes. At least higher end HiFiMan headphones don't have anything that ruins them in terms of sound, nothing is awful with their sound.



I have listened to the SR-009 briefly with the Woo Audio WES, a few times with the BHSE, and of course a ton with my KGSSHV Carbon.

But what I can't stress enough is how much impact DAC has, on bass and everything else. And even interconnects. The SR-009 is so insanely revealing that it changes more with DACs and interconnects than any non electrostat by far. Going from a Holo Audio Spring DAC level 3 or Denafrips Venus to a Chord Hugo 2, with a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE, is like a new headphone upgrade. That substantial.

So while the KGSSHV Carbon has the most and best quality bass of any electrostat amp, perhaps tied with the T2 and Grounded Grid (zero experience with those), I have indeed made my SR-009 bass light. Basically no bass impact even with the Carbon. Using a Chord Mojo as a DAC will do this, even the Denafrips Venus to a lesser extent. Even using a Hugo 2 with cheap interconnects like Audioquest Forest will make the bass pretty crappy, worse than a good HE1000 system I think.

Gotta use a really good DAC like a Chord Hugo 2 or DAVE or Hugo TT 2 I'm sure, I'd have faith in really high end DACs with a solid I/V stage (not using an opamp for I/V conversion, e.g. Audio Note DAC Signature 5.1 or Aries Cerat Kassandra). And you must use good interconnects like Kimber Kable Hero or better.

I wouldn't touch an SR-009 if I didn't intend to splurge on the rest of the system.

Your entire post is what keeps me (and I'm sure many) from electrostatic systems or the HD800 .The idea that the only way a $2,000 dollar headphone will sound better than my TH600 or HE500 is with a $4,000 amp and $4,500 DAC is rightly considered absurd.
We can hate on the price of the HE6SE all we want but at least it will sound excellent from a vintage amp and a budget king schitt dac.
I know this the summit-fi forum but a pair of focal arias in a treated room will embarrass your dream 009 system and still cost less, barring no genre of music no less .

Sure, one could argue that the L700's are within spitting distance of the 009 for half the price but it's still only 20% better than most planars for a 50% system price increase .

 

[Rhamnetin]

Your entire post is what keeps me (and I'm sure many) from electrostatic systems or the HD800 .The idea that the only way a $2,000 dollar headphone will sound better than my TH600 or HE500 is with a $4,000 amp and $4,500 DAC is rightly considered absurd.
We can hate on the price of the HE6SE all we want but at least it will sound excellent from a vintage amp and a budget king schitt dac.
I know this the summit-fi forum but a pair of focal arias in a treated room will embarrass your dream 009 system and still cost less, barring no genre of music no less .

Sure, one could argue that the L700's are within spitting distance of the 009 for half the price but it's still only 20% better than most planars for a 50% system price increase .

I will say the SR-007 on a KGSS with even a Chord Mojo, a system I used to own, is competitive with top tier non electrostatic setups (and I prefer it to any non electrostat).

The difference here is the SR-009's insanely revealing nature, making it far more picky about everything. It shows you how good or bad (mostly bad since if it's good you just won't notice any problems) your amp, DAC, and interconnects are. The SR-007 doesn't fully share this attribute and will usually sound enjoyable but not clinical.

 

[JamieMcC]

Really enjoy the HE-6 its a special headphone its technical ability is superb but what makes it special is how immersive and the level of engagement you get when you get it right amp wise. A bit shocked at the price of the new 6SE especially as if you blow a HE-6 driver a replacement from Hifiman is around the $250 mark. I had good customer service from them with this in the past.

HE-6 and HD800 can both sound excellent on inexpensive amps.

 

[VandyMan]

And I have owned the LCD-4 which walks all over every non electrostat in bass except for the Abyss. And guess what? SR-009 bass is far higher quality to me. LCD-4 bass is much thicker and also deeper while SR-009 bass is infinitely more transparent, far more detailed, much better textured, and much more tactile and quick. Some will prefer LCD-4 bass of course, but I do not.

That is a really good description. Thicker bass but not distorted. I own both the Sr009 and the LCD-4 and they are both great, but very different. I found earlier LCD headphones essentially unwearable. They always made the top of my head sore. The LCD-4 headband solves this problem for me.

 

[seanwee]

I will say the SR-007 on a KGSS with even a Chord Mojo, a system I used to own, is competitive with top tier non electrostatic setups (and I prefer it to any non electrostat).

The difference here is the SR-009's insanely revealing nature, making it far more picky about everything. It shows you how good or bad (mostly bad since if it's good you just won't notice any problems) your amp, DAC, and interconnects are. The SR-007 doesn't fully share this attribute and will usually sound enjoyable but not clinical.

I was using the Sr-009s with SRM-007T II amp and Audio GD R2R-7 as an dac. How good/bad is it?

 

[Rhamnetin]

I was using the Sr-009s with SRM-007T II amp and Audio GD R2R-7 as an dac. How good/bad is it?

I couldn't tell you with certainty how I'd feel about such a system, but most likely I wouldn't like it. All that matters of course is whether or not you like it. The only amps I've used the SR-009 with are the Woo Audio WES, HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE, and Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon. Personally I don't ever want to use an R2R DAC with it again.

 

[kid vic]

I was using the Sr-009s with SRM-007T II amp and Audio GD R2R-7 as an dac. How good/bad is it?

I couldn't tell you with certainty how I'd feel about such a system, but most likely I wouldn't like it. All that matters of course is whether or not you like it. The only amps I've used the SR-009 with are the Woo Audio WES, HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE, and Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon. Personally I don't ever want to use an R2R DAC with it again.

Though I would love to wax poetic about all of your love, my hate and the levels of upgraditis with Stax, this is a Hifiman thread on the HE6SE and HE100SE and we should keep it on topic