[waveSounds]

I know some people out there don't like cheap looking mods on a 1000$+ headphone, well the he-6se is for you!

There's cheap-looking mods, and then there's glueing shoelaces to your $1000+ headphones

 

[Rhamnetin]

In comparison to Hifiman Planars, all electrostats lack bass no matter which amp. I am a Stax lover and I know the KG amps inside out. I wished Stax fans would stop claiming in every other (non electrostatic) thread that electrostats have superior or on par bass to bassy planars, this is so not the case. (I am not necessarily answering to this thread here but more in general)

Uh, the SR-007 and SR-009 have way more and better bass than the HE-6. I have owned the HE-6 and driven it from both top tier headphone amps and speaker amps, it's not a bassy headphone like say Audezes are. HiFiman planars lack bass. All of them.

And I have owned the LCD-4 which walks all over every non electrostat in bass except for the Abyss. And guess what? SR-009 bass is far higher quality to me. LCD-4 bass is much thicker and also deeper while SR-009 bass is infinitely more transparent, far more detailed, much better textured, and much more tactile and quick. Some will prefer LCD-4 bass of course, but I do not.

But then again with the wrong DAC (even high end ones), it is possible to make the SR-009 lose all of that and end up with HE-6 tier mediocre bass. Interconnects also have huge effect.

 

[Luke Thomas]

to each there own. Owned lcd 3, returned them. Demoed lcd 3 again, returned them. Own focal Clears, not bad. Hifiman ed x on loan now and sounding good. When can I try the 6se? With my gear. Hifiman beats Audeze

 

[weasel1979]

Uh, the SR-007 and SR-009 have way more and better bass than the HE-6. I have owned the HE-6 and driven it from both top tier headphone amps and speaker amps, it's not a bassy headphone like say Audezes are. HiFiman planars lack bass. All of them.

And I have owned the LCD-4 which walks all over every non electrostat in bass except for the Abyss. And guess what? SR-009 bass is far higher quality to me. LCD-4 bass is much thicker and also deeper while SR-009 bass is infinitely more transparent, far more detailed, much better textured, and much more tactile and quick. Some will prefer LCD-4 bass of course, but I do not.

But then again with the wrong DAC (even high end ones), it is possible to make the SR-009 lose all of that and end up with HE-6 tier mediocre bass. Interconnects also have huge effect.

Uh.. I said "bassy planars", which excludes the HE-6.
You dont really need a high end Stax after market amp (they keep coming...) or a high end dac to figure out that bassy planars have more bass than electrostats imo. The bass is alright, dont get me wrong. But no comparison to bassy planars, come on. Maybe it has to do with the way your or my ears are shaped or sth., that would explain a lot. For example statements like "All Hifiman planars lack bass"..

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Uh, the SR-007 and SR-009 have way more and better bass than the HE-6. I have owned the HE-6 and driven it from both top tier headphone amps and speaker amps, it's not a bassy headphone like say Audezes are. HiFiman planars lack bass. All of them.

And I have owned the LCD-4 which walks all over every non electrostat in bass except for the Abyss. And guess what? SR-009 bass is far higher quality to me. LCD-4 bass is much thicker and also deeper while SR-009 bass is infinitely more transparent, far more detailed, much better textured, and much more tactile and quick. Some will prefer LCD-4 bass of course, but I do not.

But then again with the wrong DAC (even high end ones), it is possible to make the SR-009 lose all of that and end up with HE-6 tier mediocre bass. Interconnects also have huge effect.

The HEK V2, HEX V2, and HE500 do not lack bass. They lack bass impact, but not quantity, like the Sennheiser 800. And the HEK bass is loose, but still there in quantity.

 

[weasel1979]

Yeah of course, the HE-1000 V2 drownes in bass. It is a bit loose, but there is A LOT of it. Unlike any electrostat. I owned like 4 SR-007 renditions, a SR-009 and a Carbon.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Lots of subjectivity here. I will try to establish more of a baseline (haha). All HiFiMans lack bass compared to Audeze LCD and ZMF planars and the Abyss AB-1266 models. When you say bassy planars, indeed I'd hope you aren't including HiFiMans because personally none of them fit that bill for me.

So yes, all electrostats have less bass than the Audeze LCD lineup, ZMF planars, and Abyss AB-1266 models. But NOT compared to HiFiMan. All HiFiMans lack bass compared to those planars as well, both quantity and quality for HiFiMan while only quantity for the SR-007 and SR-009.

I'm going to try to borrow a Susvara. I have no experience with that one but again I expect underwhelming bass quantity and quality compared to the LCDs, ZMF, Abyss, and especially SR-009.

 

[Luke Thomas]

The HEK V2, HEX V2, and HE500 do not lack bass. They lack bass impact, but not quantity, like the Sennheiser 800. And the HEK bass is loose, but still there in quantity.

Luv the loose bass. So much more enjoyable than my 800s and Focal Clears.

 

[weasel1979]

Lots of subjectivity here. I will try to establish more of a baseline (haha). All HiFiMans lack bass compared to Audeze LCD and ZMF planars and the Abyss AB-1266 models. When you say bassy planars, indeed I'd hope you aren't including HiFiMans because personally none of them fit that bill for me.

So yes, all electrostats have less bass than the Audeze LCD lineup, ZMF planars, and Abyss AB-1266 models. But NOT compared to HiFiMan. All HiFiMans lack bass compared to those planars as well, both quantity and quality for HiFiMan while only quantity for the SR-007 and SR-009.

I'm going to try to borrow a Susvara. I have no experience with that one but again I expect underwhelming bass quantity and quality compared to the LCDs, ZMF, Abyss, and especially SR-009.

A few days ago you made a similar bass claim against Abyss phones in the Abyss thread and you got critized for it. Now you include Abyss in a rather random group of bass heavy planars and make a similar argument against Hifiman cans in this thread. What are you doing?

 

[Rhamnetin]

A few days ago you made a similar bass claim against Abyss phones in the Abyss thread and you got critized for it. Now you include Abyss in a rather random group of bass heavy planars and make a similar argument against Hifiman cans in this thread. What are you doing?

Nothing similar at all with that claim. Not sure if you're trying to be disingenuous, you are just remembering wrong, or if you're just illiterate so I will reiterate.

I didn't speak at all to Abyss AB-1266 bass QUANTITY. It has a ton of it, more than any Stax. I said it is lacking in the lowest octaves (I don't expect this to be the case with the Phi though and this may have just been the result of improper fit), and the quality is not close to a proper SR-009 system (no planar is). It also had a mid bass hump which I hate, not to mention that just gives noobs the illusion of better bass slam.

You seem to have trouble drawing the line between quality and quantity.

Random group of bass heavy planars? Nothing random about them, they have the strongest planar bass response I have encountered. Do you even have experience with those?

 

[weasel1979]

The Abyss is not bass heavy. It is rather bright with superb bass quality. But we have told you that yesterday already in the Abyss thread.
You are the one having difficulties with being consistent because you said all Hifiman lack bass. Now you say you were only talking about quality. (whatever that means to you) Plus now you start to insult people, so I am out of this "discussion".

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Lots of subjectivity here. I will try to establish more of a baseline (haha). All HiFiMans lack bass compared to Audeze LCD and ZMF planars and the Abyss AB-1266 models. When you say bassy planars, indeed I'd hope you aren't including HiFiMans because personally none of them fit that bill for me.

So yes, all electrostats have less bass than the Audeze LCD lineup, ZMF planars, and Abyss AB-1266 models. But NOT compared to HiFiMan. All HiFiMans lack bass compared to those planars as well, both quantity and quality for HiFiMan while only quantity for the SR-007 and SR-009.

I'm going to try to borrow a Susvara. I have no experience with that one but again I expect underwhelming bass quantity and quality compared to the LCDs, ZMF, Abyss, and especially SR-009.

I don’t disagree that those manufacturers have more quantity of bass than Hifiman. But let’s be careful about equating that to better quality. That’s completely subjective.
Hifiman does a good job of having sufficient neutrally-tuned bass. Zach and Audeze usually tune their bass quantity to be well above neutral in quantity. I prefer my bass to be present but neutral. For that, I really like the way Hifiman tunes their bass. The HEK has perfect quantity, in my opinion, if it could just be tightened up a bit. Maybe they solved that with the he1000se. Time will tell.

I find the bass on the HEX V2 to be of very high quality. It is also much tighter than the more expensive HEK. To my ears, it’s pretty spot on.

 

[Rhamnetin]

The Abyss is not bass heavy. It is rather bright with superb bass quality. But we have told you that yesterday already in the Abyss thread.
You are the one having difficulties with being consistent because you said all Hifiman lack bass. Now you say you were only talking about quality. (whatever that means to you) Plus now you start to insult people, so I am out of this "discussion".

There's no inconsistency. You tried before to point out an inconsistency but failed. Now you're trying to say that simply claiming all HiFiMan headphones are lacking in bass quality and quantity compared to Audeze LCD/ZMF/Abyss is an inconsistency? How so? Seems like you don't know what inconsistency means.

I don’t disagree that those manufacturers have more quantity of bass than Hifiman. But let’s be careful about equating that to better quality. That’s completely subjective.
Hifiman does a good job of having sufficient neutrally-tuned bass. Zach and Audeze usually tune their bass quantity to be well above neutral in quantity. I prefer my bass to be present but neutral. For that, I really like the way Hifiman tunes their bass. The HEK has perfect quantity, in my opinion, if it could just be tightened up a bit. Maybe they solved that with the he1000se. Time will tell.

I find the bass on the HEX V2 to be of very high quality. It is also much tighter than the more expensive HEK. To my ears, it’s pretty spot on.

ZMF is definitely above neutral, Audeze is ruler flat from 10 Hz to the mids though so I guess it's neutral?

Ultimately I can't argue about the last word in quality being subjective, I can only describe what I hear. The looser bass of the HiFiMans also sounds muddy and less detailed compared to the other headphones I bring up.

 

[Arniesb]

Lol Stax should pay you for good advertising ha ha.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

There's no inconsistency. You tried before to point out an inconsistency but failed. Now you're trying to say that simply claiming all HiFiMan headphones are lacking in bass quality and quantity compared to Audeze LCD/ZMF/Abyss is an inconsistency? How so? Seems like you don't know what inconsistency means.



ZMF is definitely above neutral, Audeze is ruler flat from 10 Hz to the mids though so I guess it's neutral?

Ultimately I can't argue about the last word in quality being subjective, I can only describe what I hear. The looser bass of the HiFiMans also sounds muddy and less detailed compared to the other headphones I bring up.

I agree. I do think the bass on the HEK V2 is quite good and tight. But I have always preferred Audeze bass because it has such good impact. The LCD X bass is my favorite bass of any headphone at any price point. I find it to be tight, perfect in quantity, and very impactful.

Not all Audeze LCD bass is ruler flat. I’ve seen measurements of the LCD 2 series that had elevated mid bass, but that was for older models.