[Bill-P]

I also thought that HD800 don't have enough bass depth and body so got HE-560 but after trying Out of your head program I think differently

 
Well, I did get the chance to try Out Of Your Head at a meet at some point. I didn't quite like the way it sounded, but then... it was probably due to the noisy environment. To me, it sounded a bit... artificial, and not necessarily "real" or "holographic". I have heard the HD800 on systems that cause it to be holographic (Rag/Ygg combo), and yet the rig that I heard Out Of Your Head out of at the time couldn't convey that.
 
As for the HE-560, I guess my frame of reference is a bit skewed, because even as the stock HE-560 has good bass extension, I felt that it was still... too light for my taste. That's why I modded it. The modded pair now has LCD-2/3 level of bass. In fact, it sounded even bassier than LCD-3 w/ Fazors, so... I hope that gives you a good picture. That's the only point at which I can consider a headphone to have good bass depth and body.

 

[olegausany]

I also thought that HD800 don't have enough bass depth and body so got HE-560 but after trying Out of your head program I think differently

 
Well, I did get the chance to try Out Of Your Head at a meet at some point. I didn't quite like the way it sounded, but then... it was probably due to the noisy environment. To me, it sounded a bit... artificial, and not necessarily "real" or "holographic". I have heard the HD800 on systems that cause it to be holographic (Rag/Ygg combo), and yet the rig that I heard Out Of Your Head out of at the time couldn't convey that.
 
As for the HE-560, I guess my frame of reference is a bit skewed, because even as the stock HE-560 has good bass extension, I felt that it was still... too light for my taste. That's why I modded it. The modded pair now has LCD-2/3 level of bass. In fact, it sounded even bassier than LCD-3 w/ Fazors, so... I hope that gives you a good picture. That's the only point at which I can consider a headphone to have good bass depth and body.

First of all I would recommend you to install the program to your house system and decide if it makes the difference. I had no chance to try LCD-3F yet but at the recent NYC meet I heard LCD-3 regular with upcoming LIO prototype with tubes module and once again I heard nothing that would give me something what I already have with HD800. I completely agree that HE-560 especially with vanquish cable and moded have great bass but what I'm trying to say that moded HD800 with Out of your head program can give you bass depth and body with the right preset so no HE-560 will be necessary

 

[Bill-P]

First of all I would recommend you to install the program to your house system and decide if it makes the difference. I had no chance to try LCD-3F yet but at the recent NYC meet I heard LCD-3 regular with upcoming LIO prototype with tubes module and once again I heard nothing that would give me something what I already have with HD800. I completely agree that HE-560 especially with vanquish cable and moded have great bass but what I'm trying to say that moded HD800 with Out of your head program can give you bass depth and body with the right preset so no HE-560 will be necessary

 
Will give it a try one of these days when I get the HD800 in.
 
I have been meaning to get one ever since the last meet, when I found out that my amp and DAC setup finally allowed me to listen to a stock HD800 without fatigue. That was amazing. I designed the amp to play well with the HE-560, and somehow, it was able to play well with HD800 as well.
 
I still admire the HD800 for its technical superiority over the HE-560, and... IMO, it's probably the closest I'll ever get to a Stax SR-009. I think I'll eventually end up with an 009 setup, but the HD800 will tie me over until then.
 
So we'll see.

 

[olegausany]

First of all I would recommend you to install the program to your house system and decide if it makes the difference. I had no chance to try LCD-3F yet but at the recent NYC meet I heard LCD-3 regular with upcoming LIO prototype with tubes module and once again I heard nothing that would give me something what I already have with HD800. I completely agree that HE-560 especially with vanquish cable and moded have great bass but what I'm trying to say that moded HD800 with Out of your head program can give you bass depth and body with the right preset so no HE-560 will be necessary

 
Will give it a try one of these days when I get the HD800 in.
 
I have been meaning to get one ever since the last meet, when I found out that my amp and DAC setup finally allowed me to listen to a stock HD800 without fatigue. That was amazing. I designed the amp to play well with the HE-560, and somehow, it was able to play well with HD800 as well.
 
I still admire the HD800 for its technical superiority over the HE-560, and... IMO, it's probably the closest I'll ever get to a Stax SR-009. I think I'll eventually end up with an 009 setup, but the HD800 will tie me over until then.
 
So we'll see.

Have no plans to spend $10k on Stax system. Yes I'm waiting for the upcoming LIO costing a little bit more than $4k but I will be able to enjoy my HD800 with it plus have opportunity to upgrade in the future

 

[Bill-P]

Have no plans to spend $10k on Stax system. Yes I'm waiting for the upcoming LIO costing a little bit more than $4k but I will be able to enjoy my HD800 with it plus have opportunity to upgrade in the future

 
Yeah, I hear ya. I'm using a $200 amp to drive the HD800 if I ever get it, so... you know I'm not exactly the rich kid type, either. Haha.
 
I hope I'll have enough knowledge about amplifiers by the time I get the 009 (or if Stax comes out with an updated model?) to build an amplifier for myself.

 

[olegausany]

Have no plans to spend $10k on Stax system. Yes I'm waiting for the upcoming LIO costing a little bit more than $4k but I will be able to enjoy my HD800 with it plus have opportunity to upgrade in the future

 
Yeah, I hear ya. I'm using a $200 amp to drive the HD800 if I ever get it, so... you know I'm not exactly the rich kid type, either. Haha.
 
I hope I'll have enough knowledge about amplifiers by the time I get the 009 (or if Stax comes out with an updated model?) to build an amplifier for myself.

Good luck with that

 

[nicolo]

   
Well, I did get the chance to try Out Of Your Head at a meet at some point. I didn't quite like the way it sounded, but then... it was probably due to the noisy environment. To me, it sounded a bit... artificial, and not necessarily "real" or "holographic". I have heard the HD800 on systems that cause it to be holographic (Rag/Ygg combo), and yet the rig that I heard Out Of Your Head out of at the time couldn't convey that.
 
As for the HE-560, I guess my frame of reference is a bit skewed, because even as the stock HE-560 has good bass extension, I felt that it was still... too light for my taste. That's why I modded it. The modded pair now has LCD-2/3 level of bass. In fact, it sounded even bassier than LCD-3 w/ Fazors, so... I hope that gives you a good picture. That's the only point at which I can consider a headphone to have good bass depth and body.

 
@Bill-P
 
Can you share the mods you have done on the HE-560? Thanks

 

[dan.gheorghe]

well done dan..one of the most unbiassed and to the point review i ever came across...well done my friend...hope for u u can also review the he1000... And for us! As for sure it would be a unbiassed review..again...well done!

Thank you very much. I hope too that I review the HE-1000.  I cannot wait to hear it!!

 

[Bill-P]

 
@Bill-P
 
Can you share the mods you have done on the HE-560? Thanks

 
I'm awaiting measurements to quantify the differences (if any) before I release detailed step-by-step instructions.
 
I wouldn't want to waste people's time if it turns out there is no measurable difference after all.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I'm awaiting measurements to quantify the differences (if any) before I release detailed step-by-step instructions.
 
I wouldn't want to waste people's time if it turns out there is no measurable difference after all.

I thought you found the differences significant?

 

[ThurstonX]

I thought you found the differences significant?

 
I'd guess it's a matter of what he heard vs. what can be measured, thus the use of "measurable."  Pity, as the two are not necessarily comparable, and some people might want to give the mods a try, measurable difference or no.

 

[jexby]

   
I'd guess it's a matter of what he heard vs. what can be measured, thus the use of "measurable."  Pity, as the two are not necessarily comparable, and some people might want to give the mods a try, measurable difference or no.

+1
This.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Mostly agree, but if something is audible to the point where somebody feels the difference is very pronounced, it most certainly should be measureable or else we need to seriously entertain the difference being influenced by expectation. While I get it that there is individual difference in hearing acuity, but hearing deficiency aside, most people in the same age will have very similar hearing. I'm not at all trying to be challenging (I'm a fan of Bill-P as he seems to really love and understand audio science), but I was just a little surprised as Bill-P seemed to feel very strongly that the mods made significant differences.

 

[StanD]

  Mostly agree, but if something is audible to the point where somebody feels the difference is very pronounced, it most certainly should be measureable or else we need to seriously entertain the difference being influenced by expectation. While I get it that there is individual difference in hearing acuity, but hearing deficiency aside, most people in the same age will have very similar hearing. I'm not at all trying to be challenging (I'm a fan of Bill-P as he seems to really love and understand audio science), but I was just a little surprised as Bill-P seemed to feel very strongly that the mods made significant differences.

I find it difficult to accept that someone with little experience in acoustiic design or headphone design can come along and make significant and positive changes yet the people at HifiMan or any other substantial outfit are unable to get it right despiite having years of experience and a proven track record. I'm certain that some changes can be made that alter the sound that some people may like and others may not. Some people have been doing this for a while and can do some positive tweaks. Experience takes time with both success as well as failure. I think if a pair of headphones is bad enough to require significant change, I shouldn't buy them. Who thinks that the 560's need significant improvements? Maybe some small tweaks that fit particular individuals' tastes. These are not bad headphones.

 

[ThurstonX]

  I find it difficult to accept that someone with little experience in acoustiic design or headphone design can come along and make significant and positive changes yet the people at HifiMan or any other substantial outfit are unable to get it right despiite having years of experience and a proven track record. I'm certain that some changes can be made that alter the sound that some people may like and others may not. Some people have been doing this for a while and can do some positive tweaks. Experience takes time with both success as well as failure. I think if a pair of headphones is bad enough to require significant change, I shouldn't buy them. Who thinks that the 560's need significant improvements? Maybe some small tweaks that fit particular individuals' tastes. These are not bad headphones.

 
"Significant" is a subjective term, but I agree with your general premise.  We mad modders just like to tweak things.  As much as I've modded my HE-500s and HE-560s, I wouldn't say the sound has changed significantly, but it has been tweaked nicely.  I'd never claim said tweaks are for everyone, or even worth the effort.  That's why I love reversible mods.