[richard51]

Stan-D, it is not that hard to build a functioning amplifier, where it becomes art, is creating one that plays music beautifully. HiFiManRookie is correct, the O2 is the perfect example of any fool being able to create an amplifier that functions and has good measurements. It takes an artist, skilled at design to build an amplifier that conveys the "soul", "gestalt" of a musical event.

Very good and to the point .... effectively audio engineering is like medecine based on science but exercised as an art...

 

[mlxx]

  You might like to be different and talk about it. Maybe you like some of the attention that you might get from that. I wont guess. I'll gve you some points for passion.
There's a difference between an expensive car that can accelerate, corner, brake and look far better than most other cars vs. an overpriced amp that only excels in one's imagination. At least most, not all, expensive amps are built well and are styled well. I'd invest in headphones as they make a big difference, do so carefully as there's a lot of fluff there as well.

 
WOW.. people have all sorts of theories and conspiracies.. hey.. maybe I should have got the Abyss.. even bigger e-penis, the chicks I could pull with that too.. they sure would be impressed with my "headphone".
 
Another reason, may be, I have done a great deal of testing and bought something I really really liked.. oh schiit.. maybe it was all just something I dreamt up..  I sure do feel silly now.. what a waste of money that was.
 
Give me a break dude!
 
.. and who said headphones don't make a big difference?.. pretty obvious isn't it?

 

[Pooger]

Actually there is a way to get a very strong "feel" for what music should sound like, attend copious numbers of concerts, symphonies, operas, etc., there more you attend, hopefully will result in developing a better "ear".

I don't now, living literally at the end of the Earth, but spent years "living" in great music venues.

I’d also add that once you get a good notion of what instruments sound like, listening to an assortment of recordings (different engineers, venues, etc.) it becomes easier to define which recordings seem to do a better job of conveying that sense of realness. Then, when you listen to those selected recordings, it becomes clearer what any given piece of equipment is doing to the sound. (Of course, you need to be disciplined about not changing more than one part of the playback at a time.)
 
This does not help with heavily produced or electronic music; but again, if a given piece of equipment makes the mid bass more bloated across a range of recordings, then the assumption that  the bloated mid bass is characteristic to that piece of equipment is likely correct.

 

[Yeswecan]

  ... they should have used painted cups like the 400i...

+1

 

[DoctaCosmos]

Why do people continue to complain about his opinion. . That's not all he gives. First he tells you EXACTLY how the headphone sounds according to our head-fi glossary and even compares them to other headphones to gives us an understanding. Then, if it doesn't go on his wall people say his reviews are less and less worth watching!?

 

[StanD]

  Compare the input with the ouput with a differential amplifier. That's one way.
This is the year 2014, we have test equipment and have had this for many years. One can measure distortion as well as spectral content.
Amplifiers are not as complicated as some of us may believe. This is easy electronics that many here make more of than there really is.

 
 

Stan-D, it is not that hard to build a functioning amplifier, where it becomes art, is creating one that plays music beautifully. HiFiManRookie is correct, the O2 is the perfect example of any fool being able to create an amplifier that functions and has good measurements. It takes an artist, skilled at design to build an amplifier that conveys the "soul", "gestalt" of a musical event.

And yet the same guys that produce good or great amps use the engineering and measurements that you seem to dismiss. This is really simple stuff, easy for an EE to understand yet many times the lay person attaches an almost religeous component. Perhaps it's the music that has soul and we supply the immagination and many times color our perceptions. Artistry in amp design to an EE is experience and understanding, some are better at it than others (call it skill), perhaps it seems an artform to those that do not understand how this works. Music, paintings, scupture are examples of art, amp design, IMO not so much.

 

[StanD]

   
WOW.. people have all sorts of theories and conspiracies.. hey.. maybe I should have got the Abyss.. even bigger e-penis, the chicks I could pull with that too.. they sure would be impressed with my "headphone".
 
Another reason, may be, I have done a great deal of testing and bought something I really really liked.. oh schiit.. maybe it was all just something I dreamt up..  I sure do feel silly now.. what a waste of money that was.
 
Give me a break dude!
 
.. and who said headphones don't make a big difference?.. pretty obvious isn't it?

There's testing and there's testing wth a proper basis. I don't understand your reference to conspiracies or male genitalia. perhaps that and the reference to chicks was a little bit inappropriate.

 

[hifimanrookie]

And yet the same guys that produce good or great amps use the engineering and measurements that you seem to dismiss. This is really simple stuff, easy for an EE to understand yet many times the lay person attaches an almost religeous component. Perhaps it's the music that has soul and we supply the immagination and many times color our perceptions. Artistry in amp design to an EE is experience and understanding, some are better at it than others (call it skill), perhaps it seems an artform to those that do not understand how this works. Music, paintings, scupture are examples of art, amp design, IMO not so much.

My friend..we are going to much into 'an amp is only good when u can measure it' as u know..as i hope ur am audiophile as well...is not true...check the tube amps for example..the worst measurable amps with designs that basically goes back to the beginning of the fomer century...and we al know..yep..u too (At least i hope u did!) how special some can sound...and i mean addictive special..not just nice sounding...and many GOOD measuring SS amps wont even touch some tubeamps soundwise and how it plays music...

So Stan..i know ur a numbers man..and i know u swear on that while buying ur audio...hope u one day will find out that numbers are not the most important factor in choosin ur audio equipment...i have some friends who are in the music industry for at least 30 years now....a pianist and a guitarist (and a non professional weirdo who plays very beautiful violin in his spare time) and NO ONE bought their stuff by how their measure..BUT how they sound! Not one single one...and they say even their techicians are like that..only the recording/mix tables etc..so the technical stuff they need to RECORD etc. Has to be technically perfect (i understand some stuff gets calibrated every other time!).. But the instruments? Ears!!!!

One of them talked me into his audio hobby in home...as before that i was all about car audio (attended few contest also) and thats a whole different ballgame with programs calculating (using mics on different spots in the car) the time music travels from one side to others and what filters to use so the interior influence of the car will be neutralized....thats very technical...for that i can understand numbers are important...but still..the speakers in their custommade enclosures and in their spots (spots also calculated and placed in a certain angle..etc.) are chosen for their soundsignature at the end....

But headphone rigs are very simple...u buy the headphone that u like sounding, buy the amp that makes it sing and get the dac that complements it..on top of that u can try out cables to squize the last bit of musicality out of ur rig...and then ur done...for this u dont need NO analyzer..for what? To measure what angle u have to put ur amp towards u? The way u have to put the headband on ur head? (which could actually change the soundstage by the way if u listen very carefully!)..

I think u, stan, are one of those who swear on the O2 principle...Am sure if he had 5w more u probably would had one by now...as thats..according to ur believes...the perfect amp to play music on...oops..wrongly said...the perfect amp to let the current through to your headphones..totally colorless...and totally boring..but hey..thats a personal preference...and many..and i mean many go by that...as that amp sold by the thousands if i am not mistaken... Good for them

Ok..lets end this by saying we agree in not agreeing...its a real shame ur so far away..as i know where ur coming from my friend..and am not attacking u..i once told u many of my friends are very practical thinking technical Engineers..in several areas..and although most of them said (even the ones who earn a huge salery) that i am a bit nuts spending this amount of money on a headphone rig, they all agree it sounds very special..and ALL said they didnt expected that! As for them headphone rigs are just second grade audio, two of them ordered a hd800 and their sennheiser TOTL amp to go with it (they find hifiman a bit to risky..their words!!) recently... So i won two for the headphone team

but if u ever visit amsterdam...give me a call...am not saying i will transform u in a babbling emotional audiophile..u will still be ur technical practical urself..but am sure u will believe that amps can sound better then others

 

[richard51]

My friend..we are going to much into 'an amp is only good when u can measure it' as u know..as i hope ur am audiophile as well...is not true...check the tube amps for example..the worst measurable amps with designs that basically goes back to the beginning of the fomer century...and we al know..yep..u too (At least i hope u did!) how special some can sound...and i mean addictive special..not just nice sounding...and many GOOD measuring SS amps wont even touch some tubeamps soundwise and how it plays music...

So Stan..i know ur a numbers man..and i know u swear on that while buying ur audio...hope u one day will find out that numbers are not the most important factor in choosin ur audio equipment...i have some friends who are in the music industry for at least 30 years now....a pianist and a guitarist (and a non professional weirdo who plays very beautiful violin in his spare time) and NO ONE bought their stuff by how their measure..BUT how they sound! Not one single one...and they say even their techicians are like that..only the recording/mix tables etc..so the technical stuff they need to RECORD etc. Has to be technically perfect (i understand some stuff gets calibrated every other time!).. But the instruments? Ears!!!!

One of them talked me into his audio hobby in home...as before that i was all about car audio (attended few contest also) and thats a whole different ballgame with programs calculating (using mics on different spots in the car) the time music travels from one side to others and what filters to use so the interior influence of the car will be neutralized....thats very technical...for that i can understand numbers are important...but still..the speakers in their custommade enclosures and in their spots (spots also calculated and placed in a certain angle..etc.) are chosen for their soundsignature at the end....

But headphone rigs are very simple...u buy the headphone that u like sounding, buy the amp that makes it sing and get the dac that complements it..on top of that u can try out cables to squize the last bit of musicality out of ur rig...and then ur done...for this u dont need NO analyzer..for what? To measure what angle u have to put ur amp towards u? The way u have to put the headband on ur head? (which could actually change the soundstage by the way if u listen very carefully!)..

I think u, stan, are one of those who swear on the O2 principle...Am sure if he had 5w more u probably would had one by now...as thats..according to ur believes...the perfect amp to play music on...oops..wrongly said...the perfect amp to let the current through to your headphones..totally colorless...and totally boring..but hey..thats a personal preference...and many..and i mean many go by that...as that amp sold by the thousands if i am not mistaken... Good for them

Ok..lets end this by saying we agree in not agreeing...its a real shame ur so far away..as i know where ur coming from my friend..and am not attacking u..i once told u many of my friends are very practical thinking technical Engineers..in several areas..and although most of them said (even the ones who earn a huge salery) that i am a bit nuts spending this amount of money on a headphone rig, they all agree it sounds very special..and ALL said they didnt expected that! As for them headphone rigs are just second grade audio, two of them ordered a hd800 and their sennheiser TOTL amp to go with it (they find hifiman a bit to risky..their words!!) recently... So i won two for the headphone team

but if u ever visit amsterdam...give me a call...am not saying i will transform u in a babbling emotional audiophile..u will still be ur technical practical urself..but am sure u will believe that amps can sound better then others

very well said.....for Ernest Ansermet a mathematic professor who was one of the greatest conductor of the last century and who wrote one of the most astounding book about music, music is a  creation of the consciousness transcending the acoustical phenomena and transmutating it in  a musical sound for the spirit of man...

 
in a word number are less than quality for the living ear

 

[mlxx]

  There's testing and there's testing wth a proper basis. I don't understand your reference to conspiracies or male genitalia. perhaps that and the reference to chicks was a little bit inappropriate.

 
Hehe.. yeah.. maybe I didn't word it the best.. oops.
 
Look up e-penis if you don't know what that is though, don't take it literally, the thing about the chicks was meant be a separate comment just to say that no one else really cares about headphone rigs anyway, so no point using them to impress.
 
I tested them over 2.5 years as best I could trying to justify not buying them, but alas I could resist no more. Maybe I'll bring Tyll along next time

.
 
 
 

 

[hifimanrookie]

Hehe.. yeah.. maybe I didn't word it the best.. oops.

Look up e-penis if you don't know what that is though, don't take it literally, the thing about the chicks was meant be a separate comment just to say that no one else really cares about headphone rigs anyway, so no point using them to impress.

I tested them over 2.5 years as best I could trying to justify not buying them, but alas I could resist no more. Maybe I'll bring Tyll along next time .

Yep i agree..NO ONE is impressed by that u have a headphone rig...thats sooooo right...no matter if it costs a billion usd...u have to almost pull them by the hair to listen to one to impress (or not ofcourse!) them in how it sounds..only then they start to appreciate a headphone rig....never understood why its like that...are we, headphone audio lovers, weird?

 

[mandrake50]

. It takes an artist, skilled at design to build an amplifier that conveys the "soul", "gestalt" of a musical event.

Too bad there are none of those out there. It most especially is not happening with todays technology in headphones.

 

[john57]

  Too bad there are none of those out there. It most especially is not happening with todays technology in headphones.

Except for people like Dan at Mr.Speakers he is truly an artist.

 

[mandrake50]

  Except for people like Dan at Mr.Speakers he is truly an artist.

His stuff can "convey the "soul", "gestalt" of a musical event" through HE 560s?
I like Wildcatsare1 have spent countless hundreds of hours at live venues. This includes rock, blues and lots of concerts at Boetcher concert hall with the Denver Symphony.
I work literally across the street from Fiddlers Green Amphitheater here. I get free tickets to lots of concerts.
The point is, the music, when I walk out of work coming from there at a kilometer from the stage sounds far better than any headphone/amp/dac that I have heard.
I was at Canjam for a day and a half last weekend. I tried to listen to as much high end stuff as I could. Nothing, including multi thousand dollar rigs came even remotely close to reproducing the sound of a live event, much less the "soul", "gestalt" of a musical event". In the end they all sounded like different flavors of headphones. Don't get me wrong, some I really liked. Some, had I less self control, made me want to go out and buy the exact setup!
 
BTW, the closest anything came to a live sound was some of the $30K to $70K+ two channel rigs!
 
Anyone know where I can get pricing info for the Scansonic MB-1 ?
 
Not important to discussing the He 560, but sometimes I read something that just makes me wonder what I am missing... not the equipment, but the ability to "get" the things said.

 

[ThurstonX]

His stuff can "convey the "soul", "gestalt" of a musical event" through HE 560s?

 
I'm sure I saw a YouTube video wherein he's serenading his creations "in the womb" as it were.  And he has a phenomenal voice.  Are you telling me a little of that Musikal Magick is not infused into his creations?
 
 
 
Dude, the bong's empty. Pack it up so I can keep postin' the good schiit.
 
What thread is this?  Oh yeah.  I freakin' LOVE my HE-560s!  Fang, you're an excellent engineer