[George Taylor]

Man, for $500 this is a tempting deal. However, I already have the HE-400i. Is the HE-560 enough of an improvement to justify the purchase or is any improvement in the sound merely incremental?

For me personally it was worth it. I find them to sound fuller than the 400i. I still have those, and still enjoy them as well. But in the near future I'm going to sort through and sell my redundant cans. Anyway, yes I would probably call the improvement incremental. The most obvious difference to me is the bass has quite a bit more depth to it. I find the mids fuller as well. The highs are nice, probably the one thing most like the 400i. I'd say for the $500 price they're well worth it. Back at the old price, not so much.

 

[paradoxology]

I appreciate your honest opinion. I'll think about it even though I need another set of cans like I need a hole in the head.
Thanks again!

 

[Gavin C4]

Man, for $500 this is a tempting deal. However, I already have the HE-400i. Is the HE-560 enough of an improvement to justify the purchase or is any improvement in the sound merely incremental?

If you are planning to upgrade your source components such as dac / amp in the future. The HE560 would definitely scale better. Keep in mind that the HE560 is relatively hard to drive. The HE400i is still a very good headphone at its price point and does not require that much power compare to the HE560.

 

[paradoxology]

I have a magni2/modi2 and an Aune X1s that run everything I have just fine. I don't think either would be overwhelmed by the HE-560. The real issue for me is whether I will get $500 more enjoyment from the HE-560 over the HE-400i. If the differences are subtle then I'll save my money but if there is a significant improvement I might pop for the HE-560.

 

[peter123]

I've said it before and. I'll probably say it again but to me the HE560 is a much better headphone than the HE400i (that I also like a lot and still have). To my ears the HE560 better the HE400i in every way: much wider soundstage, much better clarity and resolution, deeper subbass, cleaner midrange and much better treble presentation (the HE560 has the best treble extension I've ever heard). I didn't think it would be possible but the HE400i does actually sound muddy to me in comparison. I actually had a chance to audition the HE560 and HE-6 not that long before I bought the HE560 and at that time I was determined to get the HE-6 because I felt that the HE560 wasn't enough of an upgrade to the HE400i, having had a lot of time with both in my own systems I've got to admit that my impressions at that time was wrong in regards of the HE400i. If it worth it or not for you I'd of course impossible to say for anyone other than yourself but to me it would even have been worth it at full retail price. As always YMMV, yada yada etc.

 

[Gavin C4]

I have auditioned the 400i or 400S (forgot which one) versus the HE560. I picked up the HE560 in a heartbeat at the MSRP long time ago. I only sold the HE560 after I opted for an upgrade to the HE1000, but that is only possible if your wallet has $3000 to spare. Technically and sound quality wise, the HE560 is generally a better headphone compared to the 400 variant. I guess many owners of the HE560 would consider the HE560 as their end game, at least in the near future. (Unless your wallet is big enough for those over priced upgrades such as Focal Utopia...) IMO with the sound quality of the HE560 and the current sale $499, it has already peaked the price to performance chart.

 

[DavidA]

I have a magni2/modi2 and an Aune X1s that run everything I have just fine. I don't think either would be overwhelmed by the HE-560. The real issue for me is whether I will get $500 more enjoyment from the HE-560 over the HE-400i. If the differences are subtle then I'll save my money but if there is a significant improvement I might pop for the HE-560.

While the M2/M2 stack will not be "overwhelmed" by the HE560 its not combo that I would suggest for the HE560 since the Magni2 is a bit on the bright side IMO and its not what I would suggest for the HE560.

 

[Haris Javed]

Man, for $500 this is a tempting deal. However, I already have the HE-400i. Is the HE-560 enough of an improvement to justify the purchase or is any improvement in the sound merely incremental?

it is worth the upgrade - I own both, and the HE-560 has significantly more detail (by significant I mean 15-25%) which is honestly Huge.

 

[mandrake50]

I have and use both. People have talked about detail and scaling, but there is something else to consider. The FR of the two is much different. The 400i is much more forgiving and has what I consider to be a mellower overall sound. The 560 I find to be thinner sounding. There is the dip around 2K and peak in the 4K and 10K area that make them sound on the thin side to me. Emphasis in these areas also contribute to the feeling that they are more detailed. But for me this makes them hard to listen to with some recordings. It also give both female and male voices a somewhat unnatural sound. I feel that there is a loss of "body" to voices that bothers me. They do well with jazz and small ensembles. Not as well with pop, especially what I call classic rock.

So the question, I think, of whether they are worth the $500 to upgrade from the 400i is going to really depend on how much on like the thinner sound. I for one have difficulty appreciating things like detail, sound stage, and technical prowess when I find the FR to be off a bit.

Bottom line, listen before you buy, or get them form a place that allows returns in a reasonable amount of time.

And yes, I would not recommend the Schiit stack for the 560. Electronics with a neutral or slightly warm character is preferable. I got a Burson CV2+ recently and it works wonderfully with the 560. I think synergy in the chain is more important with the 560 than the 400i. For my taste they are more picky in this regard than anything short of the HD 800.

 

[peter123]

I have and use both. People have talked about detail and scaling, but there is something else to consider. The FR of the two is much different. The 400i is much more forgiving and has what I consider to be a mellower overall sound. The 560 I find to be thinner sounding. There is the dip around 2K and peak in the 4K and 10K area that make them sound on the thin side to me. Emphasis in these areas also contribute to the feeling that they are more detailed. But for me this makes them hard to listen to with some recordings. It also give both female and male voices a somewhat unnatural sound. I feel that there is a loss of "body" to voices that bothers me. They do well with jazz and small ensembles. Not as well with pop, especially what I call classic rock.

So the question, I think, of whether they are worth the $500 to upgrade from the 400i is going to really depend on how much on like the thinner sound. I for one have difficulty appreciating things like detail, sound stage, and technical prowess when I find the FR to be off a bit.

Bottom line, listen before you buy, or get them form a place that allows returns in a reasonable amount of time.

And yes, I would not recommend the Schiit stack for the 560. Electronics with a neutral or slightly warm character is preferable. I got a Burson CV2+ recently and it works wonderfully with the 560. I think synergy in the chain is more important with the 560 than the 400i. For my taste they are more picky in this regard than anything short of the HD 800.

If you get the chance try a warmer dac with the V2+. I also find the HE560 slightly thin with the internal dac but just perfect with my tube dac.

 

[rgs9200m]

When I owned the 560, it was a little bright (I had been used to the HE500) so I got a Norne Draug cable for it and it helped a great deal.

 

[TK16]

I find the HE560 very picky with tubes as well. I have a MJ2 and a Lite Dac 68 tube dac and I got Mullards in the DAC and I had to take out the Siemens CCa which were in my amp with a different can. Put in a warmer pair of Tele E188CC and they sound fantastic. The Siemens CCa are about as far away as you can be compared to warmer tubes. Got nothing less warm than them.

 

[mandrake50]

If you get the chance try a warmer dac with the V2+. I also find the HE560 slightly thin with the internal dac but just perfect with my tube dac.

They sound a bit thin with anything, it is their nature. They sound as good with the CV2+ as any solid state amp that I have used them with. I do like them quite well when I was using them with the Pulse Infinity (often called warm even with the ESS dacs) and my Garage 1217 Ember with a pair of Visseaux 6J5g tubes in it.

Maybe the best I heard them was at the Cavalli booth at RMAF using some $8K DAC and his Liquid Gold amp. Still the basic character was there, but still very, very nice! They do scale well.

Over time I have done lots of playing with the 560. Pad rolling (I like the original Jerg pads the best, followed by Focus A) cables, grill mods and most of the mods that Jerg described in his mod thread. I would guess that most wouldn't want to spend the time and energy to do these things. I have two sets, one stock and the other modded. The modded ones are better to my ears, but really there is not the kind of differences that would make most say that they are entirely different in the FR category.

To my frame of reference the cables made the least difference. Mostly almost zero. Many have said the Draug cables are good with the 560, but I flat refuse to spend that kind of money for wires. I guess that I will never know for sure.

Bottom line is if somebody likes the FR, then they do enough things really well that it may be worth buying them to supplement or replace the 400i, Just beware that the signature is pretty far from musical, fun, or forgiving. It moves much closer to analytical and cold/thin. IMHO, of course.

 

[peter123]

They sound a bit thin with anything, it is their nature. They sound as good with the CV2+ as any solid state amp that I have used them with. I do like them quite well when I was using them with the Pulse Infinity (often called warm even with the ESS dacs) and my Garage 1217 Ember with a pair of Visseaux 6J5g tubes in it.

Maybe the best I heard them was at the Cavalli booth at RMAF using some $8K DAC and his Liquid Gold amp. Still the basic character was there, but still very, very nice! They do scale well.

Over time I have done lots of playing with the 560. Pad rolling (I like the original Jerg pads the best, followed by Focus A) cables, grill mods and most of the mods that Jerg described in his mod thread. I would guess that most wouldn't want to spend the time and energy to do these things. I have two sets, one stock and the other modded. The modded ones are better to my ears, but really there is not the kind of differences that would make most say that they are entirely different in the FR category.

To my frame of reference the cables made the least difference. Mostly almost zero. Many have said the Draug cables are good with the 560, but I flat refuse to spend that kind of money for wires. I guess that I will never know for sure.

Bottom line is if somebody likes the FR, then they do enough things really well that it may be worth buying them to supplement or replace the 400i, Just beware that the signature is pretty far from musical, fun, or forgiving. It moves much closer to analytical and cold/thin. IMHO, of course.

Well, I'd guess we just have to agree to disagree on their nature as I don't find them thin on at least a couple of my setups (personal preference as always) and never cold.

Totally agree with you on the cables having close to zero impact though

For the record: I use mine with the Mr Speakers Alpha pads.

 

[mandrake50]

Sure we can agree to disagree. There is really never any right or wrong when talking about audio perceptions and/or preferences.

Every so often a post shows up that says the some sort of thing that I have. It seems that there are enough of these to make mentioning this perception of the 560s sound worthwhile.

Jerg, the thread starter here, started his mod thread to address the same sort of things that I am talking about. In the early parts of the thread there were also many others who felt the need to extensively mod the 560 due to their perceived problems with FR. So there are opinions on both sides of this discussion. Still it doesn't make one position wrong and the other right, this information is simply a data point. One worth considering.

When someone asks about the headphone, it is good to have opinions from people other than the ones that just love the headphones. Simply a counterpoint that should be valuable for anyone considering buying the headphones. I can't see a situation in which a broad spectrum of opinions would not be preferable.

Obviously, that is why I recommend listening before buying. Especially in the case of the 560, which obviously can be quite polarizing.