[Chris_Himself]

  That's the big one, not the one we listened to at the coffee shop, right?

 
Yeah it weighs kind of a lot so I'm not gonna drag it around haha. The difference with dac/amps after a certain dollar value started to register as negligible as long as you're getting clean power. I've never had an amp "save" a pair of headphones that I didn't enjoy. In my earlier days when I was pretty broke, I kind of went against the grain and just built up a collection of headphones, not headphone amps like I'm seeing these days LOL. I have a fairly decent library of cans, and I've been using the same amps for like two years now!

 

[spurxiii]

Alas everyone for I have a made a startling discovery! It's a real game changer in terms of amping!


Thanks. I'm going to try using my lowly audio Gd out of the headphone out like you rather than the DAC out, and preamp into my TP60. Looking forward to this
I must first admit my infidelity though. I have been demoing bookshelf speakers for the past few weeks to use with my Emotiva. :eek: I ended up settling on a pair of MartinLogan Motion 4 speakers. I liked the sound, but I found the treble to be elevated which caused sibilance and harshness. Also the vocals lacked lushness that I was used to in the HE-500. In my past experience, I knew that tube amps fixed a lot of these problems with harshness and sibilance, like my Beyerdynamic T90 and Bottlehead Crack pairing.

On a whim, I thought up an idea: I had been using my WA7 as the DAC to the Emotiva - why not use the entirety of the WA7, both the DAC and amp as a preamp to the Emotiva? I guess I hadn't thought about doing this before since preamps are unheard of in the headphone world. The result was stunning. The music coming out of those speakers made a pair of $400 speakers sound 90% as good in terms of details as my Beyerdynamic T90 (which I find the speakers to have a similar sound signature to), but with the soundstage of the speakers unrivaled by any headphones (sorry HD800). All the problems with sibilance and harshness were gone, and the vocals became much more natural.

So then I realized I could do the same with the HE-500 when using with the Emotiva. The result was equally stunning. It was the WA7 sound properly amped to drive the HE-500! Since the Emotiva is pretty neutral, you can really hear sound signature of the WA7 and its tubes. Had I known this before, I probably would not have gotten the Baby Sophia. This definitely improves upon the sound of both the Emotiva and WA7 when used alone with the HE-500. Finally I can hear what the WA7 with proper power would sound like with the HE-500! Another added bonus is how easy it is to fine tune the volume with a preamp.

I'm connecting the WA7 to the Emotiva via a 3.5mm to RCA cable I had lying around. Since the WA7 has different output power and gain on the 3.5mm and ¼" outputs, and then there is Lo-Z vs. Hi-Z, there are actually four possible settings with measurements listed here: http://kenrockwell.com/audio/woo/wa7.htm#meas

If anyone technical knows the best setting for the WA7 to be used as a preamp, please let me know! I'm currently using the 3.5mm output on Lo-Z.

So for all those who use their HE-500 with a speaker amp, this now opens up the option of using a headphone amp as a preamp, and all the endless pairings!

 

[Sonido]

Hey koiloco, do you know which setting is best for my WA7 as a preamp? I guess my current 3.5mm and Lo-Z combo gives the lowest gain and wattage according to the measurements, so I guess that does the best as a preamp?

 

[koiloco]

Sonido, I tried to look up the input impedance of the mini x but I could not find anything so I can't technically answer ur question correctly. Just try different setting and see which one sounds best. Based on what u said, both amps are at 12. That's pretty good cuz both amps are quite open up already. So if that setting sounds good to ur ears, go with it for now.

 

[brunk]

Let me guess..u have a wooaudio amp, huh? Oopsie..just kidding my friend..u know me...

But seriously..i think u cant compare the mjolnir with the emotiva..as the mjornir sounds a bit on the warm side i understand..something the emotiva doesnt to what i understand.

 
Mjolnir is definitely not on the warm side. There's an inherent upward tilt with the circlotron topology.

  I wasn't comparing bud.  I was just speaking $ for $ and the performance ratio you would get from each one.  Sorry, IMO, Mjolnir won't win here.  Also, yes to my ears, you are correct about Mjolnir being a touch warmer and Emotiva is more neutral.

That comparison makes me think the Emo is very bright. What DAC and headphones are you using?
 

  Hey koiloco, do you know which setting is best for my WA7 as a preamp? I guess my current 3.5mm and Lo-Z combo gives the lowest gain and wattage according to the measurements, so I guess that does the best as a preamp?

Well, double amping is something that's never recommended, but the best way to determine what sounds best is to adjust with your ears.

 

[ethan7000]

^Sonido,  You are double-amping.  Watch the volume knobs carefully.  It will work just fine like in your case because both amps have very low distortion at the listening level due to the power of the Emotiva.  Enjoy your new found combo and thanks for letting us know.  The little Mini-x is pretty cool, isn't it?  It drives my Klipsch speakers without the fan ever kicking in.  It's a little tank!  Well, not so little.  

Maybe you could try double amping the wa22 into the miniX for us to see if you get results like Sonido

 

[hifimanrookie]

Agreed.

Yep i agree too with langren1258..especially ur second remark

 

[bearFNF]

   
 
Agreed.

ditto I agree as well, they work very well with Decware Taboo MKIII...
 
Don't have too much experience comparing the HE6 to the HE500 though so can't comment on that.

 

[Terja]

@ Sonido ... tube buffers essentially do the same thing. Does the WA7 not utilize the tubes in the Dac section? That may be why there is such a dramatic effect when you put the amp section in the chain. I have found adding a tube buffer in my chain has made the most significant difference to how the HE-500 sounds with my Musical Paradise MP-301 MK2 (running via speaker posts). It sounded good before but the buffer really opens it up while adding more detail. The tube buffer chain doesn't work very well with every amp. I think it's a question of synergy, especially when one is dealing with weak voltage sources.
 
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

  Alas everyone for I have a made a startling discovery! It's a real game changer in terms of amping!
I must first admit my infidelity though. I have been demoing bookshelf speakers for the past few weeks to use with my Emotiva.

I ended up settling on a pair of MartinLogan Motion 4 speakers. I liked the sound, but I found the treble to be elevated which caused sibilance and harshness. Also the vocals lacked lushness that I was used to in the HE-500. In my past experience, I knew that tube amps fixed a lot of these problems with harshness and sibilance, like my Beyerdynamic T90 and Bottlehead Crack pairing.
 
On a whim, I thought up an idea: I had been using my WA7 as the DAC to the Emotiva - why not use the entirety of the WA7, both the DAC and amp as a preamp to the Emotiva? I guess I hadn't thought about doing this before since preamps are unheard of in the headphone world. The result was stunning. The music coming out of those speakers made a pair of $400 speakers sound 90% as good in terms of details as my Beyerdynamic T90 (which I find the speakers to have a similar sound signature to), but with the soundstage of the speakers unrivaled by any headphones (sorry HD800). All the problems with sibilance and harshness were gone, and the vocals became much more natural.
 
So then I realized I could do the same with the HE-500 when using with the Emotiva. The result was equally stunning. It was the WA7 sound properly amped to drive the HE-500! Since the Emotiva is pretty neutral, you can really hear sound signature of the WA7 and its tubes. Had I known this before, I probably would not have gotten the Baby Sophia. This definitely improves upon the sound of both the Emotiva and WA7 when used alone with the HE-500. Finally I can hear what the WA7 with proper power would sound like with the HE-500! Another added bonus is how easy it is to fine tune the volume with a preamp.

 
I'm connecting the WA7 to the Emotiva via a 3.5mm to RCA cable I had lying around. Since the WA7 has different output power and gain on the 3.5mm and ¼" outputs, and then there is Lo-Z vs. Hi-Z, there are actually four possible settings with measurements listed here: http://kenrockwell.com/audio/woo/wa7.htm#meas
 
If anyone technical knows the best setting for the WA7 to be used as a preamp, please let me know! I'm currently using the 3.5mm output on Lo-Z.
So for all those who use their HE-500 with a speaker amp, this now opens up the option of using a headphone amp as a preamp, and all the endless pairings!

 

[koiloco]

   
Mjolnir is definitely not on the warm side. There's an inherent upward tilt with the circlotron topology.
That comparison makes me think the Emo is very bright. What DAC and headphones are you using?
 
Well, double amping is something that's never recommended, but the best way to determine what sounds best is to adjust with your ears.

I don't know what technology is behind the Mjolnir but I do know my ears.  If it's a unit to unit difference that I experienced then sure.  But I don't seem to be alone in thinking that the Mjolnir is slightly warmer than Emotiva.  And no, the Motiva is not bright even when compared directly to a well known tube amp that is very neutral and costs 14x more.
And saying double amping is something that's never recommended is a little untrue also.  When needed in certain situations, it is indeed recommended with a big "proceed with extreme caution".  I used to double amp to drive subs in live performance for venues in which I showed up and the amps were inadequate to drive the subs. 

 

[koiloco]

Maybe you could try double amping the wa22 into the miniX for us to see if you get results like Sonido

 
I think I have the cable to do that somewhere in my pile.  Would be interesting to hear the sound characteristics come thru from the WA22.

 

[Sonido]

While double amping is never recommended between two headphone amps, in the world of speakers, preamps are very popular. Usually the requirement for a preamp is that is output very little gain and wattage in comparison to the speaker amp, which acts as the power amp. And usually, headphone amps pale in comparison to the power output of speaker amps. In fact, reputable people on this forum have said it's fine to use a headphone amp as a preamp to a speaker amp: http://www.head-fi.org/t/307901/q-headphone-amp-as-preamp
 
@ Terja
Yeah the WA7 DAC only mode doesn't even require it to be plugged in. Runs completely on USB power.

 

[Dubstep Girl]

  I think the WA22 has improved a bit since it came home.  I found that it's much better at driving dynamic headphones than orthos such as HE500.  Maybe, with different driver tubes, the low end will get better with the HE500.  My akg Q701 is so sublime with the WA22 so far that the HE500 is getting much less head time until new tubes come.  My friend is letting me borrow his HD800 on monday.  I can imagine how the HD800 will sound already based on what I am hearing with the Q701.  The only bad thing is that if I like what I hear with the HD800/WA22 combo, the HD800 will magically appear at my door couple days later.  

And yes, I went bidding happy on ebay couple days back and ended up with some Raytheon, RCA, Kenrad and Sylvania 6S7N tubes.  Let's say "a few"    I am watching out for some WE 422A rectifier just to compare with Sophia princess.  
The tubes you recommended are no where to be found.  Very rare.

 
no comparison with sophia vs. western electric 422A. the western electric is in another league. better in absolutely every way possible. the sophia is just 3 times cheaper.

 

[koiloco]

   
no comparison with sophia vs. western electric 422A. the western electric is in another league. better in absolutely every way possible. the sophia is just 3 times cheaper.

DSG, thx for the absolute assurance.
A house in silicon valley can set you back quite a bit when property tax hits.  I wish I don't have to pay it but oh well.

 

 

[modulor]

   
no comparison with sophia vs. western electric 422A. the western electric is in another league. better in absolutely every way possible. the sophia is just 3 times cheaper.

The same can be said about most western electric tubes...or so I've heard so far