[TMRaven]

The whole deal about centering all the graphs around 1khz and 1khz only has always bothered me.  No way that's indicative of equal overall loudness or spl levels when comparing headphones.  Surely there's some kind of overall SPL meter that can be used to actually match the headphones' spl.
 
Take a look at these graphs of D7000 vs D5000, then HE-500 vs HE-400.
 


 
 
 
In both of these instance, the D5000 and HE-500 are louder across the entire frequency range, which certainly doesn't scream level matched in my book.  Its gets annoying because I see people use the HE-400 one all the time to try and show just how much of an upper midrange recession it takes.
 
These photoshopped images below are not scientific or anything and most likely wrong to some extent, but they are what I feel should be more accurate for comparing purposes.
 

 

 

[Jamey Warren]

Quote:

That graph on the D7000 really bothers me. The sub bass in particular. It's nothing like how it sounds like. I wonder why the TH900 has a big mountain in the sub bass, while the D7000 rolls off completely, when the D7000 is known for it's whopping sub bass?

Sorry it bothers you but it is a measurement of an actual D7000. I believe there were differences in various production runs.
 
I think the steep roll off you see would have little impact on peoples impression of whopping bass. There is very little music in the 10-30 Hz range. Most actual bass is above this frequency range. The steep roll off could be attributed to a poor seal on the measurement head but after reviewing several measurement, I believe this is not the case. I have seen this steep roll off in several different measurements of this headphone.
 
That said, I do have other D7000 measurements that more closely resemble the response of the TH900. I believe these were taken later in the production of this headphone. I'll see if I can upload them for you. Unfortunately since these are no longer available, we won't be able to measure them again.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Yeah, I had a late model D7000 as well as an earlier model. Both still had a very strong sub bass output that sounded more akin to how the TH-900's graphs look.

 

[Techno Kid]

Quote:

The whole deal about centering all the graphs around 1khz and 1khz only has always bothered me.  No way that's indicative of equal overall loudness or spl levels when comparing headphones.  Surely there's some kind of overall SPL meter that can be used to actually match the headphones' spl.
 
Take a look at these graphs of D7000 vs D5000, then HE-500 vs HE-400.
 


 
 
 
In both of these instance, the D5000 and HE-500 are louder across the entire frequency range, which certainly doesn't scream level matched in my book.  Its gets annoying because I see people use the HE-400 one all the time to try and show just how much of an upper midrange recession it takes.
 
These photoshopped images below are not scientific or anything and most likely wrong to some extent, but they are what I feel should be more accurate for comparing purposes.
 

 

 
I just don't hear the upper mids being as recessed as the graphs show.  I compare them to the HD600's mids and while they're more up front compared to the HE-400 its not as much as you'd think imo.  
 
I think the sound signature of the HE-400 is very good and they work amazingly with EDM and other electronic music.  Now for things like rock and such I like them as well but I find the HD600 is a bit better suited and the fact you can listen for long periods of time with the relaxed signature is a plus.

 

[Jamey Warren]

TMRaven,
 
Thanks for your feedback. I don't want to derail this thread but feel I should comment on your questions.
 
There is a way to measure overall SPL but this takes into account all frequencies and doesn't give a number that is very meaningful. What is more important is the difference in output between frequencies. If we pump pink noise into a headphone and measure the SPL and base our measurements on that, we still have to pick a frequency on the graphs which is the zero point.
 
We have considered providing the option to choose the frequency at which these headphones are compared but this is not an easy tool to build. This is essentially what you are doing when you photoshop the images like you have. You have simply chosen a different frequency for your reference point. If we were to zero the graphs at 100 Hz for example, this would in theory show you what the mid range and high end response is relative to the bass. The 1k frequency is chosen as it is an audio industry standard. From a consumers point of view, I can see how it would be beneficial to change this reference point.
 
For a different perspective, take a look at this difference graph tool which is supposed to show you the difference in frequency response from your reference headphone or one you may own, compared to one you're curious about.
 
HE-400 -> HE-500
http://graphs.headphone.com/differenceGraph.php?graphType=&graphID[]=3651&graphID[]=3241
 
Here's the other way around:
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/difference-graph.php?graphID[0]=3241&graphID[1]=3651&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones
 
To me, this would mean that if the measurements are correct, our tools for displaying the data are working properly, and if frequency response were the main indicator of sound quality, that to make a HE-500 sound like a HE-400, you would need to boost 600-1.5kHz and to cut 1.5-7k, and finally boost 7-20k. In theory that is....

 

[Mikeb]

Just bought the balanced leads from HiFiman for the HE400s, bass control better with a smoother and more open midrange when compared to the standard factory lead, overall sound signature simialr to original so not a major stepup but certainly worth having, the lead by the way is much more flexible and lighter in mass than the original. I still use some frequency modification of around + 3db between 2khz to 5khz using the dsp on my TC Electronics 48 firewire dac. Although the HE400s are not perfect I find I use them a lot more than my earlier Sennheisner HD800s which I couldn't get the right setup for having tried various amps including Woo Audio.

 

[autoexec]

Quote:

That graph on the D7000 really bothers me. The sub bass in particular. It's nothing like how it sounds like. I wonder why the TH900 has a big mountain in the sub bass, while the D7000 rolls off completely, when the D7000 is known for it's whopping sub bass?

 
Even the Beyer DT1350s' graph is false. It is very known to have a very linear if not a bit elevated sub-bass.

 

[Marleybob217]

Quote:

 
Bottom line though is I disagree with those that say the HE-400 isn't amp dependent. I think it's HUGELY so. Not only do the textures come alive, but the dynamics... That's the main point of difference I think. Under-amped or inappropriately DAC'd, they just didn't have much going for them at all. I put several headphones above them. But now they might have vaulted to the top of my list. Mind you, I haven't yet heard my other headphones through this new setup...

I'm glad you like them! This makes me want to get a better amp too.
 
The back grill of the HE-400 has some mesh on them. You can pull this mesh of and the sound will in fact open up. You can also remove the entire grill.

 

[davidsh]

^But it is no big difference, only fairly slight

 

[Okamoto]

I've been listening to Prog metal/rock for a while... now that I came back to my roots(Jazz), I can't stress enough how these hp's are superior with this genre. That airy soundstage, sparkle treble together with the juicy low end make the HE-400 a perfect headphone for Jazz.

 

[modulor]

Quote:

Just bought the balanced leads from HiFiman for the HE400s, bass control better with a smoother and more open midrange when compared to the standard factory lead, overall sound signature simialr to original so not a major stepup but certainly worth having, the lead by the way is much more flexible and lighter in mass than the original. I still use some frequency modification of around + 3db between 2khz to 5khz using the dsp on my TC Electronics 48 firewire dac. Although the HE400s are not perfect I find I use them a lot more than my earlier Sennheisner HD800s which I couldn't get the right setup for having tried various amps including Woo Audio.

Are you using an amp in-between your Studio Konnekt 48 and the HE-400?  That looks like a nice piece of kit 

 

[BigCabDaddy]

The back grill of the HE-400 has some mesh on them. You can pull this mesh of and the sound will in fact open up. You can also remove the entire grill.

Hmm... Thanks! Maybe getting rid of that mesh will be just the ticket for me. Getting very close to something I'll be happy with for a long while.

 

[modulor]

Quote:

I've been listening to Prog metal/rock for a while... now that I came back to my roots(Jazz), I can't stress enough how these hp's are superior with this genre. That airy soundstage, sparkle treble together with the juicy low end make the HE-400 a perfect headphone for Jazz.

+1  I agree.  While I don't listen to alot of conventional Jazz, I think they represent that genre very well.

 

[Okamoto]

Quote:

+1  I agree.  While I don't listen to alot of conventional Jazz, I think they represent that genre very well.

Yep. Both classic and fusion/experimental Jazz work very well with HE-400. Truly a Jazz master.
 
I'm listening to Coltrane's Giant steps right now and I don't see how it can get any better.
 
A fusion album I listen to very often that is simply magical with HE-400 is Billy Cobham's Spectrum.
 

 

[BigCabDaddy]

I've been listening to Prog metal/rock for a while... now that I came back to my roots(Jazz), I can't stress enough how these hp's are superior with this genre. That airy soundstage, sparkle treble together with the juicy low end make the HE-400 a perfect headphone for Jazz.

Wow, really? It's fascinating how differently we all hear things. Granted, I've now managed to vastly improve my HE-400 for jazz but I still wouldn't call them ideal... Specifically because they are not open sounding enough for a lot of music with a lot of overtones. Maybe we listen to different sorts of jazz though. My instrumental jazz is mostly horn driven whether that's Hypnotic Brass Ensemble, Stan Kenton, or Tuba Skinny.