[MattTCG]

Although I have listened to it more than 50 times, the Alice in Chains Unplugged is one of my favorite recordings on the he400. It seems that the recording is just tailored to bring out the best and showcase the talents of the he400. You've got the wonderful separation of instruments on stage that sounds so natural and lifelike. And then there's that hard hitting bass dripping with impact. 
 
So many live recording are poorly recorded and mastered. Why can't they all be more like this? 

 

[Fearless1]

Quote:

Although I have listened to it more than 50 times, the Alice in Chains Unplugged is one of my favorite recordings on the he400. It seems that the recording is just tailored to bring out the best and showcase the talents of the he400. You've got the wonderful separation of instruments on stage that sounds so natural and lifelike. And then there's that hard hitting bass dripping with impact. 
 
So many live recording are poorly recorded and mastered. Why can't they all be more like this? 

When I was younger I co-owned a car audio shop with a friend, that was our demo music when testing or demoing a new system.

 

[jerg]

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Hey Jerg, can you post the parabolic curve you apply to the HE-400 to tackle "tizziness" again? I can't find it.
 
Florence and the Machine "Lungs" contains a few tracks where I think this tizziness is on display, and I am playing with EQ to search for the offending frequencies. My understanding is that human voices, even singing, are generally somewhere between 125 Hz to about 3.5 Khz. Any higher and there is not necessarily a lot of content to voice going on, but their may be some "air". The HE-400s "roll off" between about 2kHz - 5 Khz, and then dramatic boost back to 9 Khz is probably not the key area. Florence has a lot of voice layering and some echo effects going on, along with instrumentals which I suspect make for a "hot" midrange.
 
Wondering the extent to which the HE-400s might just "reveal" the tizz versus produce it.

Yeah.
 
 
 
 
   
 
The peak of the upper treble boost to my ears is around 10-13kHz with shoulders on either side, so this was the EQ I used to try to remedy it. I tried not to remove too much of the 10kHz response since that is where the "shimmer" rather than the "tizz" resides. The problematic regions are more around 13kHz IMO.
 
I do agree that most of the real voice info reside in much lower frequency than these regions, so my guess is this upper frequency tizz present in some tracks might be an artifact of the recording/mastering process.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Although I have listened to it more than 50 times, the Alice in Chains Unplugged is one of my favorite recordings on the he400. It seems that the recording is just tailored to bring out the best and showcase the talents of the he400. You've got the wonderful separation of instruments on stage that sounds so natural and lifelike. And then there's that hard hitting bass dripping with impact. 
 
So many live recording are poorly recorded and mastered. Why can't they all be more like this? 

AiC's Unplugged album is quite interesting for comparing HE400 and HE500s with. The most striking difference is the emphasis; HE400s emphasize instruments with the vocals mixed in, while HE500s sort of "prop up" the vocals of Layne and Jerry with the instruments corraling them but a step into the background.
 
I'd say from this album, the presentation of HE400s are easier to wow people with with the physical bass, spacious mids, and wild sizzly treble, but HE500s might be a bit ahead in terms of being true-to-the-record.

 

[wje]

Quote:

I think that an analog EQ would be worse sounding than a digital parabolic EQ such as the previously mentioned VST plugins.   Also Jriver Media Center 18 - which sounds at least as good as any other Windows player, if not better, recently added a built-in parabolic EQ.
 
And yes, that article combined with the measurements of the HE400 strongly imply that the HE400 should have less sibilance than a flat headphone.   So, perhaps the measurements are not accurate with planars ?  Although I haven't noticed any major sibilance with it...

 
I can understand, and thanks for your input.  At the moment, I'm very pleased with my Squeezebox devices, so if I do use a plug-in, it has to be designed to work with the Squeezbox system.   Or, I'll have to find another music server software that is compatible with the Logitech modules.  And the search goes on ...

 

[MrMateoHead]

Quote:

The peak of the upper treble boost to my ears is around 10-13kHz with shoulders on either side, so this was the EQ I used to try to remedy it. I tried not to remove too much of the 10kHz response since that is where the "shimmer" rather than the "tizz" resides. The problematic regions are more around 13kHz IMO.
 
I do agree that most of the real voice info reside in much lower frequency than these regions, so my guess is this upper frequency tizz present in some tracks might be an artifact of the recording/mastering process.

Thanks for the file.
 
In a slightly older post, I link to an interesting cite where you can check out a human voice "radio style" broadcast that splits up frequencies really well.
 
I find that the 1 khz region is perhaps critical for sibilance, but also where voices actually start to become intelligible. It was definately around 4 khz - 10- kHz on up where the "sizzle" starts to show up - but at that point, you could not know what was being said or sung. Hence, it would seem that, at that point, while their may be some voice wandering into those frequencies,the female's voice is less important than the overlap with whatever instruments. Supposedly, you might boost those higher freqs for the sake of putting some "air" around her voice.
 
Its interesting because the tizz sounds almost like a slight distortion - either in the recording, or in the phones. To my ears, it is somewhat like static. I have played around with severely rolling off freqs from 4-20 kHz and dropping 1 kHz, but it doesn't make much difference other than dulling the listening experience. So I am chalking it up mainly to "revealing" phones and "hot" recording. Not all female vocals create this issue, though now that I am noticing it, I am noticing it everywhere! My HD595s even seem to reveal a similar issue. I guess each new pair of headphones trains my ears a little differently.

 

[theimapwnu]

Any pics of these worn? I've seen only one and they look HUGE!

 

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Thanks for the file.
 
In a slightly older post, I link to an interesting cite where you can check out a human voice "radio style" broadcast that splits up frequencies really well.
 
I find that the 1 khz region is perhaps critical for sibilance, but also where voices actually start to become intelligible. It was definately around 4 khz - 10- kHz on up where the "sizzle" starts to show up - but at that point, you could not know what was being said or sung. Hence, it would seem that, at that point, while their may be some voice wandering into those frequencies,the female's voice is less important than the overlap with whatever instruments. Supposedly, you might boost those higher freqs for the sake of putting some "air" around her voice.
 
Its interesting because the tizz sounds almost like a slight distortion - either in the recording, or in the phones. To my ears, it is somewhat like static. I have played around with severely rolling off freqs from 4-20 kHz and dropping 1 kHz, but it doesn't make much difference other than dulling the listening experience. So I am chalking it up mainly to "revealing" phones and "hot" recording. Not all female vocals create this issue, though now that I am noticing it, I am noticing it everywhere! My HD595s even seem to reveal a similar issue. I guess each new pair of headphones trains my ears a little differently.

That's usually a sign that there is some mild ringing occurring in the frequency range, rather than a simple clean peak. 
 
BUT, and this is a big but, If you look at the HE400 CSD plot
 

 
The treble is actually pretty clean, so I'm hesitant to call this tizz a driver distortion issue. This then would support your hypothesis, in that it's an inherent issue in certain tracks that is brought out (not created) by HE400's peculiar tonality.
 
 
 
 
 
To give you some perspective in terms of how problematic treble response can become, here is Denon D7000, not known for the worst treble but certainly not the best either, check out dat treacherous treble lol

 

[Sniping]

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Any pics of these worn? I've seen only one and they look HUGE!

 

They aren't THAT big, but they're pretty big. 

 

[pablobaluba]

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I have a short question. How important is an amp for these headphones? I know the HE400 are recommended for any source, but from my experience an amp improves almost any headphones. So it's obvious they would benefit from one.
I have an Audinst mx1 Dac+Amp (which is supposed to easily support up to 300ohm cans) should this one be enough to get the most out of them (or almost the most )?
 
How good are these headphones for electronic music and hip-hop? This would be my main use? Would you better recommend a DT770, Ultrasone Pro 900 ? Thanks in advance!

A short answer would be helpful .

 

[renishi]

S.O.S, it seems like my right driver is 5 to 10% softer and it is especially apparent with female vocals. I tried to google a for a link on what to check or tighten on this thread but google failed me. Any kind soul can give me the link or solution that i remember someone posted before? 
 
I pmed my seller for permission to open up my right driver just in case i damage it but he did not reply me yet.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

S.O.S, it seems like my right driver is 5 to 10% softer and it is especially apparent with female vocals. I tried to google a for a link on what to check or tighten on this thread but google failed me. Any kind soul can give me the link or solution that i remember someone posted before? 
 
I pmed my seller for permission to open up my right driver just in case i damage it but he did not reply me yet.

It's a finicky business messing with the drivers, I tried it but just couldn't maneuver my hands around well enough to work at any of the screws with much force. Basically IMO the only real way to work with the drivers is to de-solder the two lead connections first so you can just take the driver out. Also make sure you got proper tools (mini cross screwdriver, mini hex nut wrench, proper sizes).
 
Worse comes to worst, you mess up, you're still covered by the 1 yr replacement warranty, just say your HE400s have a damaged driver without going into any details with your activity and you will be granted free replacement from Head-Direct 

.

 

[renishi]

Quote:

It's a finicky business messing with the drivers, I tried it but just couldn't maneuver my hands around well enough to work at any of the screws with much force. Basically IMO the only real way to work with the drivers is to de-solder the two lead connections first so you can just take the driver out. Also make sure you got proper tools (mini cross screwdriver, mini hex nut wrench, proper sizes).
 
Worse comes to worst, you mess up, you're still covered by the 1 yr replacement warranty, just say your HE400s have a damaged driver without going into any details with your activity and you will be granted free replacement from Head-Direct 

.

I cant imagine myself 3 to 4 weeks without the he-400..... i am trying to repair it myself but i guess it just wont do with my clumsy hands. I will try to talk with my local jaben and see if they can help me with it.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

I cant imagine myself 3 to 4 weeks without the he-400..... i am trying to repair it myself but i guess it just wont do with my clumsy hands. I will try to talk with my local jaben and see if they can help me with it.

What exactly is the issue? one side has flabby bass?

 

[renishi]

Quote:

What exactly is the issue? one side has flabby bass?

The sound on the right driver is softer. The vocals and details are much louder on the left side. So right now it seems like everything is not balance or symmetrical. I tested with my iem and it is fine.... and i have already make an appointment with an ent specialist after christmas just to make sure that it is not my hearing problem.