[kstuart]

Quote:

Now you might love it or hate it; the colouration is intentional and defines the sound signature of this particular headphone.

I doubt that that coloration is intentional.  Fang said that the pronounced bass emphasis - as opposed to a flat FR - was intentional.
 
I'm sure that if there was some easy way in the design to flatten that little valley in the FR around 3khz, they would have done it.

 

[chewy4]

Quote:

I doubt that that coloration is intentional.  Fang said that the pronounced bass emphasis - as opposed to a flat FR - was intentional.
 
I'm sure that if there was some easy way in the design to flatten that little valley in the FR around 3khz, they would have done it.

That valley is what causes the bass emphasis and warm tone. If it wasn't there the whole FR would just be flat.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

I doubt that that coloration is intentional.  Fang said that the pronounced bass emphasis - as opposed to a flat FR - was intentional.
 
I'm sure that if there was some easy way in the design to flatten that little valley in the FR around 3khz, they would have done it.

 
Dude, Fang himself said it, right here on Head-Fi:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/586885/new-hifiman-headphone-he-400-is-out/165#post_8022919
 
He tuned HE-400 himself, its colouration is reminiscent of JBL speakers. Withdrawn upper midrange, pronounced upper treble. "detailed and laid-back".

 

[Yekrut]

Hey guys,
 
Still haven't tried the felt in the cups yet, but I have tried the thin paper. It just doesn't quite do it for me. This song in particular is one that gets fatiguing quite quickly:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reAZiJlEuL8
 
I don't know if it's the recording itself, or the HE-400s. I know that when I play it through my desktop speakers it sounds pretty darn good.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Hey guys,
 
Still haven't tried the felt in the cups yet, but I have tried the thin paper. It just doesn't quite do it for me. This song in particular is one that gets fatiguing quite quickly:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reAZiJlEuL8
 
I don't know if it's the recording itself, or the HE-400s. I know that when I play it through my desktop speakers it sounds pretty darn good.

 
Again, HE-400 have emphasized upper treble, which that track as well as most other EDMs have oodles of. This means it'll sound fatiguing to some like you, it also means it'll sound detailed and exciting to others who aren't as susceptible to treble fatigue.

 

[Yekrut]

Rough^^
 
My ears are slowly getting used to the emphasized treble though. I'm finding myself able to enjoy most of my music, with the exceptions of certain tracks like the one I linked above. Overall this is still an amazing headphone, and there have been a number of tracks where I truly feel like I'm re-discovering my music, and thats a feeling that is truly priceless.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Rough^^
 
My ears are slowly getting used to the emphasized treble though. I'm finding myself able to enjoy most of my music, with the exceptions of certain tracks like the one I linked above. Overall this is still an amazing headphone, and there have been a number of tracks where I truly feel like I'm re-discovering my music, and thats a feeling that is truly priceless.

It's kinda ironic, because earlier this year when HE400 was just released, it had a much darker tonality, whereas not only was the upper mids dip present, the upper treble was also much less emphasized. Reviewers described HE400 as extremely dark, darker than Audezes, HD650, etc etc.
 
Kind of a shame Hifiman didn't keep that tonality.
 
I guess they'd rather have a few customers complain about treble fatigue, than tons of people complaining about muffled treble.

 

[kstuart]

Quote:

Quote:

I doubt that that coloration is intentional.  Fang said that the pronounced bass emphasis - as opposed to a flat FR - was intentional.
 
I'm sure that if there was some easy way in the design to flatten that little valley in the FR around 3khz, they would have done it.

 
Dude, Fang himself said it, right here on Head-Fi:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/586885/new-hifiman-headphone-he-400-is-out/165#post_8022919
 
He tuned HE-400 himself, its colouration is reminiscent of JBL speakers. Withdrawn upper midrange, pronounced upper treble. "detailed and laid-back".

You are projecting an amazing amount into a much more limited statement by Fang:
Quote:

To be honest, we did tune HE-400 more "American sound" than HE-500. Comparing typical America sound thiel or JBL speakers to UK speaker such as spendor sp100, ATC or harbeth, many people believe thiel or JBL have more detail or more neutrual than those UK speakers, but I personally perfer Spendor or harbeth a lot. I don't like America sound signature.

Nowhere did he say either "withdrawn upper midrange" "pronounced upper treble" or "laid-back" were intentional design targets.
 
He said "many people believe thiel or JBL have more detail or more neutral than those UK speakers".
 
In fact, JBL have been used in many studios used to record and master those recordings.
 
How about JBL midranges used solely for vocals and piano?:

Also JBL woofers and McIntosh 2300 amplifiers.  For technical details, see:
http://www.dozin.com/wallofsound/index.html
 
And this is exactly my experience as well:
Quote:

Originally Posted by john57 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Nankai,
That is interesting that you said that the HE-400 was designed more toward the likes of Thiel speakers in sound. I used to own Thiel speakers and I [size=medium]regard [/size]them to be one of the most neutral and cleanest sounding speakers around. My former Ohm F's were the best.

 

[torresfelipe]

Quote:

AFAIK...there are no r3 left out there. HIfiman was quite good about pulling off that stock from all the vendors. The only likelihood that you pick one up is if you bought used from someone who didn't send them back during the recall. 

 
Nice to know about that. I closed an order about two hours ago on HeadRoom. In 10 days I'll be back here to share my thoughts about the newest addition to my headphone database. Thanks Matt!

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 
You are projecting an amazing amount into a much more limited statement by Fang:
Nowhere did he say either "withdrawn upper midrange" "pronounced upper treble" or "laid-back" were intentional design targets.
 
He said "many people believe thiel or JBL have more detail or more neutral than those UK speakers".
 
In fact, JBL have been used in many studios used to record and master those recordings.
 
How about JBL midranges used solely for vocals and piano?:

Also JBL woofers and McIntosh 2300 amplifiers.  For technical details, see:
http://www.dozin.com/wallofsound/index.html
 
And this is exactly my experience as well:
 

 

Of course there's going to be huge variance in tonality between different speaker types in a brand as big as JBL, Nankai's statement was a generalization of JBL voicing of particular speakers that he or his research team was familiar with, and it translated to how HE400s were voiced. Sure they could be off their target by a bit since translating a speaker sound signature into a headphone is not a simple EQ transplant, but it turned out the way it did and I don't see what's wrong with that.
 
 
Edit: heck, if you want you could try getting in touch with Fang and discussing HE400 retuning possibilities with him even. I had some conversation about this matter with Matt a little bit earlier actually.

 

[MattTCG]

Cool!! Also, if anyone is looking to pick up a pair LNIB I have a pair for sell that I originally planned as a gift...now for sale (shameless plug) 

 

[torresfelipe]

If I knew that ealier, I'd have bought it from you!  

 

[torresfelipe]

Quote:

Audio Advisor is a reputable store that has been around for years.  I purchased my DAC from them.
 
So, head-direct.com (the HiFiMan store) will not ship the headphones direct to you ?

 
Unfortunately, Audio Advisor don't ship do addresses different than the billing one, but they seemed very attentious guys and answered me promptly. Also, they told me that even though their website shows HE-400 in stock, they are actually not.
 
Forgot to mention that yes, Head-Direct would ship it direct to me. The problem with that is custom taxes. They are way too high in Brazil. To avoid it, we try to use cheaper shipping methods, like First Class, but them we have to wait about a month to get our hands on the product. Sucks, right?

 

[kstuart]

How about the Thiel part ?
 
From Stereophile review of the classic Thiel model:
Quote:

Thiel speakers have always been designed and built to optimize a core set of attributes: flat frequency response, time and phase coherence, low energy storage, and low distortion. These were the goals for the Thiel Model 03 in 1978, and have remained the goals for Thiel speakers ever since.

see:
 
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/220
 
oh, and in the conclusion of the review is:
Quote:

but when it was time to work on a review, I always turned to the Thiels for their neutrality.

 
Let's just say that Fang's experience of speakers is extremely limited, but his experience of headphones is not.  Since he doesn't sell speakers, that's not a problem.
 
Also, many people's association of "American" as an adjective meaning "stupid and unsophisticated" has some small basis in reality, but it has absolutely no basis in the world of audio, particularly when you are talking professional and high-end equipment like JBL and Thiel.

 

[FuzzyD]

My headphones arrived today but I think I'm waiting until Christmas to open them. This could be painful.