[TMRaven]

Yes it's more boomy and less impactful in the mid-bass. 

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

According to Matt, that's a no.

 
True. In some ways the hd650 outshines the he400. The best example is the mids. The 650 mids can be truly special. But special don't come cheap. For me it was lyr, bifrost and the right set of tubes. The mids on the 650 competed well against the 400 when I had the e09 and odac. Actually they were a little better. But on the lyr setup the mids are much better. 
 
The he400 is more dynamic and has that smile inducing visceral ortho bass. For me, that's what makes it special. If I'm listening to pop, hip hop, anything with a good bass line the he400 is the first thing I grab. The icing on the cake with the 400 is how well it reproduces instruments and how it's able to position them with such definition. And no lyr required to do it all. Impressive. 

 

[wje]

All I can tell you is that I'm not going to get involved in a Sennheiser vs. HifiMAN debate.  'Nuff said.  

---

 

[jsmooth67]

Quote:

 
True. In some ways the hd650 outshines the he400. The best example is the mids. The 650 mids can be truly special. But special don't come cheap. For me it was lyr, bifrost and the right set of tubes. The mids on the 650 competed well against the 400 when I had the e09 and odac. Actually they were a little better. But on the lyr setup the mids are much better. 
 
The he400 is more dynamic and has that smile inducing visceral ortho bass. For me, that's what makes it special. If I'm listening to pop, hip hop, anything with a good bass line the he400 is the first thing I grab. The icing on the cake with the 400 is how well it reproduces instruments and how it's able to position them with such definition. And no lyr required to do it all. Impressive. 

 
For the people who have heard both the HD 650 and HE-400, do the majority think the HE-400 is the superior headphone? Only the mids on the HD 650 are a little better when using an entry level amp?
 
So you have to spend $800 (Schiit Lyr $450 + Bifrost $350) for the HD 650 to sound much better?

 

[rawrster]

It depends on the setup. On a less than optimal one I would probably go with the HE400 but on one that is carefully selected the HD650 would do it for me.

 

[MattTCG]

Well, IMO the he400 scales up to 90% of it's potential quickly on a modest amp. I could live with the he400 and an e17 and be perfectly happy. 
 
The 650 is one of those hp's that scales up the more you give it. The bonus for me was that I always planned on having both anyway and I knew that I'd get "a little more" from the 400's with the lyr. 
 
The smart man would take the he400 and a modest amp and be done. 

 

[wje]

Quote:

 
For the people who have heard both the HD 650 and HE-400, do the majority think the HE-400 is the superior headphone? Only the mids on the HD 650 are a little better when using an entry level amp?
 
So you have to spend $800 (Schiit Lyr $450 + Bifrost $350) for the HD 650 to sound much better?

 
I've been here 10 years and I won't take the bait on that question.  There are just too many variables involved.  The process of getting the right mix of headphones, amp and your music is something that we just can't plug information into a spreadsheet and see an absolute response as to whether one is better for your needs.

 

[zachchen1996]

Maybe I do need to give the he400s another chance, other than the treble issues it sounded decent with some dash berlin straight out of my uha-6smkii. I believe the problem was that the uha-6smkii ( op amp 209) was just way to cold and flat to be a good match with the he400s, too bad I didn't get to listen to them out of anything else. Next meet it is.

 

[zachchen1996]

delete. repeat post.

 

[jsmooth67]

Quote:

Well, IMO the he400 scales up to 90% of it's potential quickly on a modest amp. I could live with the he400 and an e17 and be perfectly happy. 
 
The 650 is one of those hp's that scales up the more you give it. The bonus for me was that I always planned on having both anyway and I knew that I'd get "a little more" from the 400's with the lyr. 
 
The smart man would take the he400 and a modest amp and be done. 

 
How do both headphones compare when using the Lyr? Knowing that he 650 has better mids, which one has better bass, treble, soundstage, layering, speed, separation and imaging?

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
How do both headphones compare when using the Lyr? Knowing that he 650 has better mids, which one has better bass, treble, soundstage, layering, speed, separation and imaging?

Look at the comparison review in his signature.

 

[cssarrow]

Maybe I do need to give the he400s another chance, other than the treble issues it sounded decent with some dash berlin straight out of my uha-6smkii. I believe the problem was that the uha-6smkii ( op amp 209) was just way to cold and flat to be a good match with the he400s, too bad I didn't get to listen to them out of anything else. Next meet it is.

Dood. You should of done some op amp rolling before fully deciding to sell it, it's really good. The HE-400 has a fun surprising signature, i guess your flat op amp took the good factor away.
Have many op amps does your UHA-6S.MKII have? i use MUSES01 op amps which are $50 each, six of them. best sounding op amp I've ever heard. OPA2132 & MUSES 8920 comes close.

How do both headphones compare when using the Lyr? Knowing that he 650 has better mids, which one has better bass, treble, sound stage, layering, speed, separation and imaging?

I wouldn't say they have better mids. fuller & well mixed mids yes. HE-400 has better bass, treble, sound stage, speed, separation, and imaging. The mids is different, can be for better or worst. mid treble lacks a little bit compared to the HE-500. Detail both seem to have.
But it also depends on what amp you use. SYNERGY!
 

 

[zachchen1996]

Dood. You should of done some op amp rolling before fully deciding to sell it, it's really good. The HE-400 has a fun surprising signature, i guess your flat op amp took the good factor away.
Have many op amps does your UHA-6S.MKII have? i use MUSES01 op amps which are $50 each, six of them. best sounding op amp I've ever heard. OPA2132 & MUSES 8920 comes close.
I wouldn't say they have better mids. fuller & well mixed mids yes. HE-400 has better bass, treble, sound stage, speed, separation, and imaging. The mids is different, can be for better or worst. mid treble lacks a little bit compared to the HE-500. Detail both seem to have.
But it also depends on what amp you use. SYNERGY!
 

I think I'm selling ALL my audio stuff right now. Finally got to listen to the LCD3s with the schiit stack at a meet and now I know where my money is being pulled too :rolleyes:

 

[cssarrow]

I think I'm selling ALL my audio stuff right now. Finally got to listen to the LCD3s with the schiit stack at a meet and now I know where my money is being pulled too :rolleyes:

Way too expensive for me. You win.

I surrender.

 

[esuhgb]

hey, ive been looking to upgrade my d2000's for a while and been looking into these and the he-500 (too expensive in the UK), so may just settle with the he-400. Whats the treble quantity on the 400's like compared to the d2000's? I have the rx-mk3b amp and was wondering if there is an increase in performance using a balanced cable. Finally how do these perform with trance? Thanks.