**Hifiman HE-400 Impressions and Discussion Thread**
Oct 13, 2015 at 6:56 PM Post #20,866 of 22,116
So I posted this comment on the HE-6 thread -
 
Anyone else put the Sorbothane on the INSIDE of the cup, right behind the grill (that 3/16" deep rim)? 
 
Obviously I was confused (simple minds and all that................) about where to put the Sorb mod material and didn't see or look at pics apparently.  Didn't realize sticking to the OUTSIDE of the cups was the way to go.  Not that looks really matter but..............
 
Gonna do it tonight and feel the difference. 
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 6:59 PM Post #20,867 of 22,116
  So I posted this comment on the HE-6 thread -
 
Anyone else put the Sorbothane on the INSIDE of the cup, right behind the grill (that 3/16" deep rim)? 
 
Obviously I was confused (simple minds and all that................) about where to put the Sorb mod material and didn't see or look at pics apparently.  Didn't realize sticking to the OUTSIDE of the cups was the way to go.  Not that looks really matter but..............
 
Gonna do it tonight and feel the difference. 

Inside works the same as outside, it adds weight and damping to the cup. I tried both, no difference.
 
Edit: No difference in the sound improvement!
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 7:53 PM Post #20,868 of 22,116

 
 
  (it is possible to made the cut cleaner than mine with a razor blade..)
 
How to make a simple filtering space with many pieces of damping sorbothane : 6 RULES1 Many small pieces works better than more large one  2 too big mass of sorbothane does not work well , because too much is worse, (too much damping is a catastrophy, blutak mod for example is damping mod hence +sorb mod maybe to much damping) and 3 the right thickness and duro...mine is 30 duro,1/8 inches for the metallic cup of the HE400, i had not try higher duro because i think the 30 duro work so well for me 4  and not more than 65% of the surface covered by sorbothane and probably around 50% or a little more  is way better ....5  cut rule modulo 6 : with a razor blade or an exacto you cut a rectangular pieces in 6 little squares. ( it is not necessary to cut it before sticking it to the headphone, it was more easy for me to cut it after because i want them very close one another)I had originally stick 4 pieces of sorb at the bottom of the hoop, i cut now the four rectangular pieces of sorb in 6 pieces each, hence at one level i have 4 pieces of sorb, at another level i have divided these 4 pieces of sorb in 24 pieces, and i think that the mass of sorb act  at one level as a 24 frequencies filtering mass, at another level act like an agglomerate 4 filtering frequencies mass of sorb... the principle is simple : divide the mass in cutting it in  6...

 

i am no engineer but the end result was extraordinary...clear sound across the board...that is my experience... The filtering of frequencies is not optimalized  if the mass of damping  sorb is  too much  big for the space damped or too homogeneous...In short i think the agglomerate of 48 located masses (6X8 on each cup)  absorb better  some higher vibration and the 4 little masses  in the upper part of the cups and  the 4 in the lower part of the cup act like 8 separate units and absorb better some other  bass vibration... In short  the GOLDEN RULE :cutting  in 6 the damping mass of sorbothane transform it in a filtering space for various resonance. Effectively the form of any piece of sorbothane play a major role in vibration absorption.If for example  the cuts were not totally completed and if the 6 little pieces are always partly linked together because the cutting was not absolutely complete the lack of clarity of the highs frequencies will be evident in a less detailed soundstage ...

 
Added 24oct: It seems that the filtering effect of the highs are better realized for me with this design cuts :
 


 the highs are clearer and the bass untouched or less marked by these cuts, a rectangular  piece of sorb cutted in 6 little squares....i had translate all i had previously  written in this post  with my new experience (4 into 6 pieces) this is way better mod that clearly made an improvement of the definition of soundstage, if higher frequencies are more clearly defined, soundstage and localization of instruments are better , hence the filtering effects of dividing strip of sorb in 6 is an astounding improvement............

rule 6 necessary to square all pieces of sorb,never sticking an integral piece of sorb without cutting in 6 or the sound will be more muffled, it is very audible, the filtering of the sound makes all frequencies more organic,and this will assure you of a more  airy sounstage...( Of my 8 pieces of sorb when 2 or 3 has been stick without being cutted in 6 the effect is immediately audible the sound was less airy less clear) Also i think, but i had not try that,  it is intuitive speculation, that the cut in diagonals will be better for the filtering effect  than the cut in squares:

  I am no scientist, it is only my explanation...
 
It is an experiment  in relation with the basic material of your headphone, plastic or metallic, the densities of your headphones, etc,and you must explore by Yourself and experiment, and READ the thread of Edstrelow to know the basic...People dont read these days... i put it outside BECAUSE nobody already know the right from wrong now for this or that headphones in particular, hence i dont want to mess with the delicacy of the grill right now in assembling and desassembling it many times.
beerchug.gif
 
 
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: i cannot insist enough on that : too much sorb or too big piece will DESTRUCT the sound...i made this mistake in the beginning... i cannot insist enough on that:worsening the sound is very easy...My 6 rules will help you to try and when you will got it right the result will be unmistakable Essentially it is the end result when you have a clarification on all the  spectrum,with an organic very fluid sound,and a detailed soundstage with more depth,  nearly out of the ears soundstage, restitution of a more natural midrange, this would be the end result...good luck to all
 
P.S. description of the mod : i have four  rectangular pieces (3/4 inches by 1 inches) at the bottom of the hoop... the spacing is visible on the photos... i had four other little pieces (each  2 set of 2 little  squares pieces of approx 1/2 inches by 1/2 inches approx. distributed between  the center of the hoop in the  upper half of the cup... the height is very tight there with 1/8 inches thick pieces of sorb( if i had one i would have tried with 1/10 inches there ) .. it is important to cut all these pieces in 6 ,,, the sound is better more soundstage and very silky sound.... Hence i had now 8 pieces on each cup of the headphone in all cutted in 6...Between the 2 groups of 4 pieces on each cup there is a void space of approx 2 inches 1/2 without pieces...
 
 
Conclusion
The naked metallic case of the HE400 product vibrations resonance that kill the sound... I had not listen with pure bliss  to my he 400 really for next to 2 years because these vibrations plagued the sound... i changed 4 times of amplifier with some good results but nothing was great before i begin to investigate this sorb. mod. this thread of Edstrelow is a great discovery the most important one... the great crowd of headfiers listen now their headphone without knowing that they dont have access to their true potential... it is a pity... it is the reason i put my observation here... In reality the Sorbothane application is not a modification of the headphone but a true restitution of the headphone potential... Perhaps it will be better to name this sorb. restitution rather than modification, it is in the end not a physical structural modification of the original product but the cancelling of the negative effect of vibration...  i apologize for my bad English(it not my first language ) thanks for your kind interest
 
p.s. i had seen a video about anax mod for taming senn HD800... i am pretty certain that the application of Sorbothane there will do a more miraculous cure... the reason is simple the material used in the anax mod  does not have the filtration capacity of a pieces of sorbothane squared or diagonalized... A material only per se cannot filtrate highs and bass , sorb cannot if not squared, hence the anax mod must cure the peculiar high frequencies problem of this headphone but cannot cure all his vibration problem.. I dont have an HD800 to begin with an experiment, it is only my 2 cents as i say i am only an amateur...  Same probably for ALL headphones...
 
EVIDENTLY ALL HERE PRESENTED LIKE FACTS ARE ONLY MY HUMBLE OPINION AND EXPERIENCE, I CANNOT BE RESPONSIBLE if you do  not apply my guideline for 2 reasons: with sorbothane very little variation with form, cuts,thickness, duro, made BIG differences , and secondly in audio all is matter in the end of personal taste and past experiences...thanks to all of you...
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 10:55 AM Post #20,869 of 22,116
  I'm sure there are changes to the sound when doing mods, but how much of that is the
feeling of the person doing the mods and being 'proud' of doing the mods and want to
hear a difference. (again I'm not saying it's not changing the sound).

 
I can assure you that, at least in my case, all the mods I roll with have improved the quality of sound. One mod that I think is a waste of time is the grill mod. I heard probably no change when I listened with mine off whilst doing Sorbathane. If you want truly "airy" sound, you're going to need new headphones as these just aren't quite there.
 
  Sorbothane mod is done. I have seven patches in each cup on the outer facing side. To put it simply, the sound has been "cleaned up". Bass is perfectly tight and punchy, and the treble glare is gone. I wouldn't say this is a miracle mod like some others have noted, but I can tell a difference for the better.

 
These are my sentiments exactly, with the exception that I don't really think the bass changed. But I am planning on removing a few patches in the future to see if the sound "livens up" a little more without the glare coming back.
 
I hear you. I don't want to deviate from the sound that made me love these. That's what other headphones are for. I may get the velours because it's only 10 bucks and reversible.

 
The only non-reversible mod I've done is to the pleather pads, and since that doesn't change the fundamental sound at all, there is little to fear. EQ is harmless, sorbathane can be removed, and an amp is an amp.
biggrin.gif

 
But I have nothing against staying stock - its just that the HE-400 mods are SO easy and generally correct their main flaw, which is glare / resonance that affects the midrange/treble. I've got some perfect PSBs that I don't what to touch! Maybe a little sorb on the outside of the cups wouldn't hurt for the time being . . .
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 11:58 AM Post #20,870 of 22,116
you put the sorb where you want, only [COLOR=FF0000]4 RULES[/COLOR]:  1 Many small pieces works better than less large one ( i cut the longer pieces in halves on the cup without detaching it with an exacto and it was better way better hence 13 smaller pieces was  great improvement on my 8 or 12 larger one ) 2 not to much, because too much is worse, (too much damping is a catastrophy, blutak mod for example is damping mod hence +sorb mod maybe too much damping) and 3 the right thickness and duro...4  not more than 65% of the surface covered by sorbothane and sometimes less will be better depending of the surface particular (metal or plastic).

It is an experiment  in relation with the basic material of your headphone, plastic or metallic, the densities of your headphones, etc,and you must explore by Yourself and experiment, and READ the thread of Edstrelow to know the basic...People dont read these days... i put it outside BECAUSE nobody already know the right from wrong now for this or that headphones in particular, hence i dont want to mess with the delicacy of the grill right now in assembling and desassembling it many times.:beerchug:  


IMPORTANT NOTE: i cannot insist enough on that : too much sorb or too big piece will DESTRUCT the sound...i made this mistake in the beginning... i cannot insist enough on that:worsening the sound is very easy...My 4 rules will help you to try and when you will got it right the result will be unmistakable Essentially it is the end result when you have a [COLOR=0000CD]clarification on all the  spectrum[/COLOR][COLOR=0000CD],[/COLOR] [COLOR=000000]this would be the end result...good luck to all[/COLOR]


Would you be able to take a picture of your he-400's with the sorb mod done? Just trying to get an idea on amount in relation to the cup.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 2:14 PM Post #20,873 of 22,116
@nmatheis I really like the improvement. I posted my impressions a page or so back. Basically the bass tightened up and the treble glare is gone. Not a massive improvement but certainly an improvement. Sorbothane cuts pretty easy but make sure to peel off the paper and the plastic film before you stick it on. Sometimes the film gets stuck and if held under a light it looks somewhat white compared to the film being off. Anyways, highly recommended! Godspeed.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 2:48 PM Post #20,874 of 22,116
Just curious... am I the only one that doesn't prefer the more open design with the grill mod? I felt like I lost a lot of sub bass impact which is what I love the HE-400 for (among other things) and that is what drew the line for me. Not sure how to describe it but after the grill mod the sound was more dry and less fun.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 3:42 PM Post #20,875 of 22,116
  Just curious... am I the only one that doesn't prefer the more open design with the grill mod? I felt like I lost a lot of sub bass impact which is what I love the HE-400 for (among other things) and that is what drew the line for me. Not sure how to describe it but after the grill mod the sound was more dry and less fun.

I find the sub bass on my grill modded HE400's to be excellent, but YMMV.
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 3:50 PM Post #20,876 of 22,116
Here's what I did: 7 patches in each cup



Did you put the patches on the vertical wall or literally on the driver cover up to the vertical wall?  Sorry if my question isn't clear.............
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 3:55 PM Post #20,877 of 22,116
@Oregonian I know what you mean. They touch the white part and the wall of the cup, so the edge of the sorbothane lines up with the edge of the cups and white baffle. The sticky part sticks only to the blue edge of the cups, though. They are about 1/4" wide and 1/2" long, so they come up to the edge where the grill inserts. 
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 6:16 PM Post #20,878 of 22,116
  @Oregonian I know what you mean. They touch the white part and the wall of the cup, so the edge of the sorbothane lines up with the edge of the cups and white baffle. The sticky part sticks only to the blue edge of the cups, though. They are about 1/4" wide and 1/2" long, so they come up to the edge where the grill inserts. 


Thanks for the clarification. 
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 8:15 PM Post #20,879 of 22,116
if you put the rectangular pieces of sorb inside the cup, it is more difficult to cut it in 4 smaller parts.... My experience is  :it is better to have one rectangular piece of sorb cutted in 4 parts...
 
 
 
 
read my explanation in my 5 rules to the sorb mod...my post below this one with a photo
 
Oct 14, 2015 at 10:10 PM Post #20,880 of 22,116
  if you put the rectangular pieces of sorb inside the cup, it is more difficult to cut it in 4 smaller parts.... My experience is  :it is better to have one rectangular piece of sorb cutted in 4 parts...
 
 
 
 
read my explanation in my 5 rules to the sorb mod...my post below this one with a photo


Are you saying that its better to have 16 pieces of 1/4" by 1/4" than 4 pieces of 1/2" by 1/2"?
 
Following that interpretation its easier to install 4 pieces of 1/2" by 1/2" and then cut them up in to 1/4" by 1/4" after you have them installed?
 
I'm using the 1/2" and 1/4" as a place holder since you give no sizes in your instructions, just the thickness and duro rating.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top