[Modular]

  Okay guys, so Ive got these things on my head right now, brand new straight out of the box and Ive been listening to them for a good hour or so and I must say, fit/comfort issues aside, Im having trouble understanding why between my ASUS Essence One and Denon AH-D5000's and Crack w/ Speedball and Sennheiser HD-650's setups I need then cans. So far for dance/trance/bassy music they dont sound as good to me as my Denon AH-D5000's do and for vocal/jazz/instrumental/etc they dont sound better then my Senn HD-650's setup. I will say they do sound better than the Sennheiser HD-598's they replaced, but has anyone got any suggestions on some tracks I should give a listen to or am I just expecting too much from these cans?
 

 
 
First, you need to listen to them for more than an hour before you make a judgement. 
 
Second, what are you powering them with? I admit, I just got my HE-400's and am burning them in (at about 60 hours right now). That being said, when I first pulled them out of the box I listened to them through my Galaxy S4 and was severely underwhelmed. No matter what people say, these are planars and need amperage. Connecting them to my Project Sunrise II made a significant difference in the sound quality. They're not my endgame headphone, but so far, I like them quite a bit. I'm going to give them the required burn-in before making a final judgement though and so should you.

 

[money4me247]

  The sound of the HD-650's and getting rid of what many have called the "veiled" sound of them, depends greatly on the amplifier used. Try a pair of HD-650's with a good tube amp, say an OTL, and listen to some vocal jazz and youll see the HE-400's are definitely below that. Now, to be fair I had read that the HE-500's are supposedly the ones that would beat the tube amp/HD-650 combo. I didnt buy the HE-400's to replace or even compete with my HD-650 setup, but just specifically hoping that it would outshine my Denon AH-D5000's for EDM music and they would be my dedicated cans for that genre.

I've heard that HE-400 works better with a high power (lots of current) solid state amp to reach its potential. Maybe your equipment doesn't match well with the orthos as they may be more difficult to drive sometimes.
 
I'm sure that the AH-D5000's has more bass quantity as I've heard em mentioned as basshead's phones, but from my experience, I haven't heard anything with better bass quality than the HE-400s so far (in terms of details, texture, resolution, decay, speed, and extension). Maybe you should try EQ-ing the bass levels of those two headphones to the same level & then see what you think. perhaps you are simply used to the "fun-er" bass-heavy sound signature. I listen to a lot of EDM and I thought that the HE-400 was really amazing for that genre.

 

[ben_r_]

   
 
First, you need to listen to them for more than an hour before you make a judgement. 
 
Second, what are you powering them with? I admit, I just got my HE-400's and am burning them in (at about 60 hours right now). That being said, when I first pulled them out of the box I listened to them through my Galaxy S4 and was severely underwhelmed. No matter what people say, these are planars and need amperage. Connecting them to my Project Sunrise II made a significant difference in the sound quality. They're not my endgame headphone, but so far, I like them quite a bit. I'm going to give them the required burn-in before making a final judgement though and so should you.

 
 

  I've heard that HE-400 works better with a high power (lots of current) solid state amp to reach its potential. Maybe your equipment doesn't match well with the orthos as they may be more difficult to drive sometimes.
 
I'm sure that the AH-D5000's has more bass quantity as I've heard em mentioned as basshead's phones, but from my experience, I haven't heard anything with better bass quality than the HE-400s so far (in terms of details, texture, resolution, decay, speed, and extension). Maybe you should try EQ-ing the bass levels of those two headphones to the same level & then see what you think. perhaps you are simply used to the "fun-er" bass-heavy sound signature. I listen to a lot of EDM and I thought that the HE-400 was really amazing for that genre.

I was using my ASUS Essence One to as amp and DAC to drive them. Take a look at the Amps/DACs list in my sig. Thats what I have on hand. Tell me which one of those you think I should try if any. Though from everything I have read as far as specs go, including from HiFiMan's website and product description, the HE-400's arent supposed to need any amplification at all. That was their whole point behind deigning the HE-400's, to be a low power with still great sound and lower price than the much harder to drive HE-500's and HE-6.
 
From the HiFiMan website (LINK):

What makes HE-400 special is: 1)      it is 92.5DB efficient so it can be driven by virtually anything including an iPod.
2)      It has the familiar HiFiMAN sonic signature which means it is very detailed yet warm
3)      It is only $399 MSRP. We price it at such a price because we finally figure out a way to mass produce hi-end sound quality planar driver headphones in a much easier way than before. 

 
Now that being said I will leave them burning in for the next few days as like I said I am "stuck" with them, and give them a listen again after 60 hours or so of burn in. Typically I burn in my new cans for 100 hours straight before even putting them on my head, so it is only fair that I the same with these.
 
 
THEN, there is one more thing to consider... Have YOU ever heard the AH-D5000's and or the HD-650's with a good tube amp?! Not to sound rude, but if you havent it very well could be that dont understand at all where Im coming here. Either way, you are right, I need to give these cans more of a respectable chance and will do so.

 

[Fearless1]

   
.
 
 
THEN, there is one more thing to consider... Have YOU ever heard the AH-D5000's and or the HD-650's with a good tube amp?! Not to sound rude, but if you havent it very well could be that dont understand at all where Im coming here. Either way, you are right, I need to give these cans more of a respectable chance and will do so.

I have, and I feel that the HE-400 is better then the D5k for the type of music the D5k is good at EDM, modern R&B and etc.., better layering ,bass definition and such.
 
It is not even close to the HD650 for the type of music it does well with (with a good tube amp)  vocals, acoustic music, classic rock and such.
 
That being said, I do agree the HE-400 takes a bit to grow acclimated with the sound. I bet they grow on you.

 

[money4me247]

  I was using my ASUS Essence One to as amp and DAC to drive them. Take a look at the Amps/DACs list in my sig. Thats what I have on hand. Tell me which one of those you think I should try if any. Though from everything I have read as far as specs go, including from HiFiMan's website and product description, the HE-400's arent supposed to need any amplification at all. That was their whole point behind deigning the HE-400's, to be a low power with still great sound and lower price than the much harder to drive HE-500's and HE-6.
 
Now that being said I will leave them burning in for the next few days as like I said I am "stuck" with them, and give them a listen again after 60 hours or so of burn in. Typically I burn in my new cans for 100 hours straight before even putting them on my head, so it is only fair that I the same with these.  
THEN, there is one more thing to consider... Have YOU ever heard the AH-D5000's and or the HD-650's with a good tube amp?! Not to sound rude, but if you havent it very well could be that dont understand at all where Im coming here. Either way, you are right, I need to give these cans more of a respectable chance and will do so.

Hahaha... you're right, I haven't heard the AH-D5000 or the HD-650 paired w/ a tube amp. I was just trying to offer suggestions that may hopefully improve your experience w/ the HE-400. I hope I haven't offended you as no offense was intended. Just trying to be helpful.
 
HE-400 can play plug-&-play into a 3.5mm jack, but a lot of users here have reported improved SQ with certain equipment, so that's the only reason I suggested it. I can't seem to find the thread right now, but I do remember people suggesting solid state amps for orthos (that is capable of outputting high current - since the HE-400 is low impedance). If someone more knowledgeable about the subject of best equipment pairing can chime in here, that would probably be better as I am not very familiar with your stuff.
 
I personally don't really believe in burn-in, but I did noticed that the treble improved (in terms of silibance disappearing). Whether that was due to my amp/burn-in/brain-psychological fact or whatever else, I dunno. I really enjoy my HE-400s & hopefully, your experience w/ the HE400 will improve!

 

[ben_r_]

  Hahaha... you're right, I haven't heard the AH-D5000 or the HD-650 paired w/ a tube amp. I was just trying to offer suggestions that may hopefully improve your experience w/ the HE-400. I hope I haven't offended you as no offense was intended. Just trying to be helpful.
 
HE-400 can play plug-&-play into a 3.5mm jack, but a lot of users here have reported improved SQ with certain equipment, so that's the only reason I suggested it. I can't seem to find the thread right now, but I do remember people suggesting solid state amps for orthos (that is capable of outputting high current - since the HE-400 is low impedance). If someone more knowledgeable about the subject of best equipment pairing can chime in here, that would probably be better as I am not very familiar with your stuff.
 
I personally don't really believe in burn-in, but I did noticed that the treble improved (in terms of silibance disappearing). Whether that was due to my amp/burn-in/brain-psychological fact or whatever else, I dunno. I really enjoy my HE-400s & hopefully, your experience w/ the HE400 will improve!

No no, no offense taken. Sometimes its hard to make suggestions on the internet without come off sounding rude. Thats why I had to be careful how I said that as well.
 
Okay, that aside, I can say as of right now I do like the HE-400's better with the NuForce Icon HDP than I did with my ASUS Esscence One or ASUS Xonar ST from my PC. So thats a good thing. Also I am going to order the Sennheiser HD-650 headband as the fit of these things def needs some help and from what I have seen around the net and read I think that will def "improve my experience" with these cans. For those who dont know, the HD-650 head pad is about $15 USD shipped from Sennheiser directly and can be bought here: LINK
 
Now I just have to figure out how best to attach it when it gets here.

 

[money4me247]

  Now I just have to figure out how best to attach it when it gets here.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/635480/simple-but-successful-mod-on-he-400s
 
This guy did the mod w/ the HD600 headband & attached it with velcro. He even links to the exact velcro he bought on amazon lol! I actually tried the HD600 mod & it was uncomfy b/c of the 4 bumps. I think the HD650 mod would work better fsure! can't believe you found it for $15. They were so much more expensive when I was looking into it.
 
i may have to pick those up now. heh

 

[ben_r_]

  http://www.head-fi.org/t/635480/simple-but-successful-mod-on-he-400s
 
This guy did the mod w/ the HD600 headband & attached it with velcro. He even links to the exact velcro he bought on amazon lol! I actually tried the HD600 mod & it was uncomfy b/c of the 4 bumps. I think the HD650 mod would work better fsure! can't believe you found it for $15. They were so much more expensive when I was looking into it.
 
i may have to pick those up now. heh

Yea I saw that thread but I was a little unsure if that was how I wanted to attach it. Though I probably will do it that way as I cant really think of any other way aside from something more permanent like double sided tape. And yea I had read that they were pretty cheap though I have read of lots of people paying crazy prices for the HD-650 ear pads. Thankfully Im insanely anal with all my things and I have never worn out any set of headphones so far so I have never had to replace anything on any of them. They all look brand new still

 

[ksat90]

Hey guys, new user on head-fi who has an HE-400 as well. Rarely listen to it nowadays since getting my Philips X1
Its a great jazz/classical/gaming headphone though!
Been running it on Fiio E17 + O2 (sometimes), and with velour pads. Tried the jergpads but still prefer the more subdued trebles of the velours.

 

[Modular]

  No no, no offense taken. Sometimes its hard to make suggestions on the internet without come off sounding rude. Thats why I had to be careful how I said that as well.

 
I hope that I don't come off as an ass as well, heh. I don't think that anyone else has in this thread, that's for sure. 
 

   
 
I was using my ASUS Essence One to as amp and DAC to drive them. Take a look at the Amps/DACs list in my sig. Thats what I have on hand. Tell me which one of those you think I should try if any. Though from everything I have read as far as specs go, including from HiFiMan's website and product description, the HE-400's arent supposed to need any amplification at all. That was their whole point behind deigning the HE-400's, to be a low power with still great sound and lower price than the much harder to drive HE-500's and HE-6.
 
From the HiFiMan website (LINK):
 
Now that being said I will leave them burning in for the next few days as like I said I am "stuck" with them, and give them a listen again after 60 hours or so of burn in. Typically I burn in my new cans for 100 hours straight before even putting them on my head, so it is only fair that I the same with these.
 
 
THEN, there is one more thing to consider... Have YOU ever heard the AH-D5000's and or the HD-650's with a good tube amp?! Not to sound rude, but if you havent it very well could be that dont understand at all where Im coming here. Either way, you are right, I need to give these cans more of a respectable chance and will do so.

 
I looked at the ASUS website and they don't post power specs for the Essence One at all. That makes me believe they aren't pushing enough current for these drivers. I looked at the other options you have, and I think that none of them are ideal. The Crack with Speedball probably has far to high of an output impedance for these low Ω headphones which will make the headphones sound "boomy" and lose control of the bass. 
 
I know that the website says these are designed for ipods/phones and other low power devices, but in my personal experience from driving them out of my Galaxy S4 and then my 900mw headphone amp, it's literally night and day in terms of the sound. From bass control to the layering of the instruments, everything is better on the amp by a significant margin.
 
Also, I haven't heard the HD-650 or the D5000's, so you are certainly right that I'm not sure what you are looking for sonically. But I can tell you that making the comparison between the HD-650 with a good amp and the HE-400 without one isn't going to help the HE-400 in any way. That being said, I think that HiFiMan should be more upfront about the amping requirements for this headphone so that more people understand what they're getting into when they buy it. It takes current to run planars, no matter the sensitivity rating. 
 
That being said, I know that these are not my end-game headphone. The recessed mids make some things seem a little off, as others have mentioned. The HE-4 will be next after several months with these. Then I'll really be in need of a great amp!
 
Happy New Year all!

 

[manbear]

Not to re-open the whole can of worms about powering the HE-400s, but I just want to throw one thing out there: power and refinement are two different things for amps. I can get decent volume from the HE-400s through an mp3 player, which tells me that I'm getting enough or at least close to enough power, but the soundstage, detail, and bass definition aren't so great compared to my dedicated amp. The point is that having enough power is not itself sufficient to make the headphones reach their full potential. An amp can have enough power and still mask detail, have poor impulse response, etc.
 
I think this is what is happening with devices such as phones, mp3 players, laptops, etc. Even if the stock headphone jacks have adequate power, they just aren't resolving amps. Dedicated headphone amps generally have more maximum power, yes, but you aren't necessarily actually putting that power into the headphones unless you have the volume knob way up -- dedicated amps generally sound better because they are just cleaner and more transparent than stock headphone jacks, independent of power. Unless you hear clipping on a stock headphone jack, lack of power isn't the direct culprit for poor sound quality. 

See my earlier posts about Ohm's law for more about power. I will avoid repeating it if someone disagrees with me, but in a nutshell, if the same headphones reach the same sound pressure level on two different amps, then Ohm's law and the fact that HE-400 sensitivity and impedance are constants require that the exact same voltage, current, and power are passing through the headphones on both amps. Even if one of the amps has a much larger maximum power rating than the other -- more powerful amps don't magically put more current through the headphones at the exact same volume level. 

 

[Mingus Ah Um]

Couldn't decide which forum to post in so I'm choosing here.  I received a pair of the 400's for christmas this year...as well as the HD650's...my wife really loves me I guess.  I've been using the DT880's 600 ohm headphones for about 2 years now and I was ready to try something else out.  I've been waiting to give my initial impressions on these new headphones until I had a little bit of quality time with them.  
 
The HE400's have about 60 hours of burn in on them.  I honestly don't know if the sound signature has changed that much as opposed to me getting used to the 400 sound.  I did switch to the velour pads after about 2 hours.  Velour suits me much better.  So far I really like these headphones.  I've been using them out of a Little Dot MKIII and Fiio e7/e9 combo.  Personally I think both amps power these headphones just fine.  Coming from the 880's the highs on these headphones don't seem harsh to me.  This is my first experience with ortho's an I quite like the sound signature.  Bass is nice and tight, mids and high's are exactly what I'm looking for in a headphone.  
 
I listen primarily to classic rock, jazz, classical and acoustic.  Bands like Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Smiths, DMB, Miles, Evans, Mingus, etc...not any hip hop or real bass heavy music.  Honestly I haven't found any genre I dislike with this set of headphones.  I think I prefer female vocals and classical with my 880's or 650's but I think the 400's handle just about every genre I've tried quite well.  I particularly have enjoyed the airy openness of these headphones with recordings like Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds @ RCMH.  I know a lot of people prefer orthos with a SS amp but my Little Dot makes these things sound great.  I wouldn't mind experimenting with a better SS amp than my e9 but I don't think I'm in any hurry to do so at the moment.  Honestly I think I'm perfectly content powering this with my current setup.  
 
My only issue so far is the headphone seems to be quite lose on my head.  I think i have kind of a small head but not abnormally small.  If I lean my head forward or back while wearing these they tend to slip quite a bit.  They don't completely fall off but come close.  Honestly as much as I like the sound the fit of these has me contemplating returning them.  I don't find the weight an issue.  They are quite a bit heavier than the 650's and 880's but not uncomfortably so.  I just don't like how much they move on my head.  Not sure if other people have noticed this or not...maybe just guys with small heads like mine.  
 
As for which headphone I prefer I think I'm leaning toward the HE400 right now.  I love the 650's but haven't spent nearly as much time with them over the past week.  The 650's do fit better and win as far as comfort goes.  I do think both cans are an upgrade from my 880's.  I've felt no desire to put on my 880's this week after using the other two pair...which makes me kind of sad.  The 880's have been an amazing headphone and they still are, but I think I prefer the 400 and 650 sound over the 880.  At this point I'm not sure I can say why I prefer them over the 880's...it might just be because these are my new toys.  I haven't done any A/B/C comparisons at this point but I plan to once I get some more time.  Overall, I'm very happy with both of these headphones, even more so considering the discounts my wife got on both of them on Thanksgiving.  

 

[gidgiddonihah]

Are these cans known to be bright?  Or is it just my setup?

 

[money4me247]

  Not to re-open the whole can of worms about powering the HE-400s, but I just want to throw one thing out there: power and refinement are two different things for amps.
 
...

See my earlier posts about Ohm's law for more about power. I will avoid repeating it if someone disagrees with me, but in a nutshell, if the same headphones reach the same sound pressure level on two different amps, then Ohm's law and the fact that HE-400 sensitivity and impedance are constants require that the exact same voltage, current, and power are passing through the headphones on both amps. Even if one of the amps has a much larger maximum power rating than the other -- more powerful amps don't magically put more current through the headphones at the exact same volume level. 

 
@manbear, omg please no. i do not want another 4 pages of arguing about the Ohm's law & the physics behind amps derailing the HE400 thread.
 

Spoiler: recap of that discussion

what user mlxx said earlier seems to check out with the general consensus. you want your amp to have low output impedance (approaching zero) for low impedance headphones (aka many solid state amps have this, couldn't really find a tube amp like that). the suitable headphone impedance =/= actual output impedance, and is typically calculated for dynamic headphones, so the amp may not be as ideal for planars.
 
[size=1em]user mlxx said that your bold statement is false because you did not take into account of the amp's actual output impedance, which would change the resistance in your equation. For your discussion with mlxx, you were assuming identical spec amps (except output impedance which can cause a difference in the voltage or current output according the mlxx).[/size]
 
[size=1em]the full discussion starts from this post: [/size][size=1em]http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-impressions-and-discussion-thread/15390#post_10087249[/size]

 
We are talking real world now with amps having different specs, different amps pushing out different amounts of power at certain impedance, and requiring different amounts of power to reach a certain volume. The recommended amp pairing for the HE-400 should have low actual output impedance approaching zero (different from 'suitable headphone impedance') + high current.

 

[money4me247]

  My only issue so far is the headphone seems to be quite lose on my head.  I think i have kind of a small head but not abnormally small.  If I lean my head forward or back while wearing these they tend to slip quite a bit.  They don't completely fall off but come close.  Honestly as much as I like the sound the fit of these has me contemplating returning them.  I don't find the weight an issue.  They are quite a bit heavier than the 650's and 880's but not uncomfortably so.  I just don't like how much they move on my head.  Not sure if other people have noticed this or not...maybe just guys with small heads like mine.  

@Mingus Ah Um, I too have a small head. The easiest fix for this issue is simply doing some sort of headband cushioning mod where you add cushioning under the headband so that you "expand your headsize" lol.
 
there are many options out there. I personally would suggest trying the HD650 replacement cushions (available for $8 direct from Sennheiser) + velcro first.