[Rhamnetin]

Latin music does benefit from punch and visceral headphones, so I'll put the Clear above on my list. I assume you own or have tried the Clear, how would you compare them to the HD700 or HD800 for classical?

Just wanted to chime in but the HD 800 is so hard to beat for classical. It beats the Utopia for that in my opinion, pretty much purely due to its sound stage and imaging which is so perfectly matched to classical music.

 

[franz12]

Latin music does benefit from punch and visceral headphones, so I'll put the Clear above on my list. I assume you own or have tried the Clear, how would you compare them to the HD700 or HD800 for classical?

Just wanted to chime in but the HD 800 is so hard to beat for classical. It beats the Utopia for that in my opinion, pretty much purely due to its sound stage and imaging which is so perfectly matched to classical music.

I own Clear, though I left it at my parents' house a month ago (next time I visit, I might swap it with my AFO again).
I owned HD800S about 2 years ago, so I have to rely on my memory. But I thought HD800S was truly great for classical. The shortcomings of HD800S (sibilance and distant sounded vocals) were not an issue for classical. If I only listen to classical, I would pick HD800S among others. Unfortunately, I haven't heard HD700 yet.

 

[rutter]

I really like its large driver. With 80x50mm, the driver size is one of the largest (still very light) in the industry following Audeze. (vs Focals 40mm, Senn 56mm, LCD2C, 106mm). I felt the image of sound from Ananda is indeed 'taller' when I A/Bed with AFO. Ananda is really open sounding, but I didn't notice large difference in terms of soundstage when I directly A/Bed with AFO (EQed).

Upper mid/lower treble (or higher frequency if that mattes) is a deal breaker for me. Female vocals are not as much bad as LCDs. No. They are not sibilant like HD800S. But I am not a big fan of its female vocal tonality. Someone might say it 'metallic.' In my language, they are slightly recessed, but still bright and sharp. I prefer female vocals from Clear or AFO over Ananda.

The AFO doesn't have much of a soundstage. Remarkably it's common knowledge that the Aeon Flow Closed has more of a soundstage than the AFO. The HEXv2 is clearly more open than the AFO. The HEXv2's female vocals are also considerably better than the AFO's. I doubt the Ananda has regressed from the HEXv2. I don't think you can EQ soundstage, female vocals sure but you obviously would need to EQ the Ananda for a fair comparison. The Clear is a clearly superior sound to the AFO and I found little ground for comparison between the two. What the AFO does best is a dynamic balanced strength of sound whereas the Clear is imposing and potentially piercing.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I own Clear, though I left it at my parents' house a month ago (next time I visit, I might swap it with my AFO again).
I owned HD800S about 2 years ago, so I have to rely on my memory. But I thought HD800S was truly great for classical. The shortcomings of HD800S (sibilance and distant sounded vocals) were not an issue for classical. If I only listen to classical, I would pick HD800S among others. Unfortunately, I haven't heard HD700 yet.

You’re not missing anything. 800S is worlds better than the 700. The 700 is simply, not good.

 

[Rhamnetin]

You’re not missing anything. 800S is worlds better than the 700. The 700 is simply, not good.

Agreed again, the HD 700 just has an unnatural treble presentation that kind of ruins it. It should be forgotten in my opinion, never really had a place as it used to be positioned next to the HiFiMan HE-500 which has very few flaws (in its sound at least) and punched way above its price range.

 

[IkSak]

@Hifiearspeakers and @franz12, how would you compare the amp requirements between the Ananda, HD800S and the Clear?

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

@Hifiearspeakers and @franz12, how would you compare the amp requirements between the Ananda, HD800S and the Clear?

Easiest to drive to hardest:

Ananda -> Clear -> 800S

 

[bagwell359]

That 560 freq chart shows the big problem - 4k rise.

Ananda has two issues a broad suckout - worst at 1.8k and a 8-10k rise centered at 8.8k. EQ is fine as far as it goes. The waterfall shows that the 8.8k issue may not be totally fixed by an EQ, because it looks like there is some phase issue (perhaps minor). Plus of course EQ's are active and when we are talking near SOTA equipment it's ideal not to have one.

Poorly mastered CD's from the 70's - usually solved by more recent remasters - can make one wish for an EQ when listening to the HE-500's, but that's about a 2 in 32 shot for me. Otherwise, no. Senn 600 and MassDrop 4xx (cups modded to increase low bass) don't demand EQ either.

I will say a wrinkle at 8-10k is far easier on the ear then one at 4k. The one centered at 1.8 is more subtle than it looks due to some measuring side effects. Still I'd like to hear it to know if does take a recorded row E female vocalist and change her to row R. That is something I can't tolerate.

Guess I'll have to go to a retail high end purveyor of cans to see for myself. It's been years since I cheesed them off by listening and buying used or Amazon, so they probably forgot me, or got a real job... (just kidding I used to be one for 7 years).

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

That 560 freq chart shows the big problem - 4k rise.

Ananda has two issues a broad suckout - worst at 1.8k and a 8-10k rise centered at 8.8k. EQ is fine as far as it goes. The waterfall shows that the 8.8k issue may not be totally fixed by an EQ, because it looks like there is some phase issue (perhaps minor). Plus of course EQ's are active and when we are talking near SOTA equipment it's ideal not to have one.

Poorly mastered CD's from the 70's - usually solved by more recent remasters - can make one wish for an EQ when listening to the HE-500's, but that's about a 2 in 32 shot for me. Otherwise, no. Senn 600 and MassDrop 4xx (cups modded to increase low bass) don't demand EQ either.

I will say a wrinkle at 8-10k is far easier on the ear then one at 4k. The one centered at 1.8 is more subtle than it looks due to some measuring side effects. Still I'd like to hear it to know if does take a recorded row E female vocalist and change her to row R. That is something I can't tolerate.

Guess I'll have to go to a retail high end purveyor of cans to see for myself. It's been years since I cheesed them off by listening and buying used or Amazon, so they probably forgot me, or got a real job... (just kidding I used to be one for 7 years).

I didn’t notice any recession with mids with the Ananda. Don’t forget that the measured dip always looks worse than it is due to the ear concha. In reality, it usually measures pretty flat there, unless you’re Audeze.
They do have an 8K peak which is why I ultimately ended up with the HEX V2 over them.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

I personally think all measurements don't matter at all. Each persons ear canal is shaped differently, I know mine are quite wonky actually. I think this is why the audiophile world is so subjective to begin with, and no one person will ever really know what headphones they like until they go to a headphone convention or small meet up to try other peoples headphones /amps/dacs, etc.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I personally think all measurements don't matter at all. Each persons ear canal is shaped differently, I know mine are quite wonky actually. I think this is why the audiophile world is so subjective to begin with, and no one person will ever really know what headphones they like until they go to a headphone convention or small meet up to try other peoples headphones /amps/dacs, etc.

Anti-science blasphemy. Ear canals being shaped differently is significant but not everything.

 

[franz12]

The AFO doesn't have much of a soundstage. Remarkably it's common knowledge that the Aeon Flow Closed has more of a soundstage than the AFO. The HEXv2 is clearly more open than the AFO. The HEXv2's female vocals are also considerably better than the AFO's. I doubt the Ananda has regressed from the HEXv2. I don't think you can EQ soundstage, female vocals sure but you obviously would need to EQ the Ananda for a fair comparison. The Clear is a clearly superior sound to the AFO and I found little ground for comparison between the two. What the AFO does best is a dynamic balanced strength of sound whereas the Clear is imposing and potentially piercing.

The smaller 'perceived' soundstage of AFO is due to its warm signature (the dip around 1.2k). After lifting it with EQ, I don't see much difference in soundstage between the two, though Ananda is more open sounding by construction.

Everything else you said is up to one's own ears. I heavily A/Bed those headphones which I own. I prefer female vocals on AFO over Ananda (also over Clear depending on track) even without EQ, though I prefer male vocals on Ananda due to its leaner presentation. Even though Clear is more balanced and neutral overall, it is not superior in every way than the others. Some headphones complement each other very well. Sometimes you can make them sound similar with EQ, but sometimes not. So I own multiple headphones.

 

[IkSak]

The smaller 'perceived' soundstage of AFO is due to its warm signature (the dip around 1.2k). After lifting it with EQ, I don't see much difference in soundstage between the two, though Ananda is more open sounding by construction.

Also, don't forget the effect of filters on this. For those not familiar, the AFO comes with a set of three filters that allow tuning the trebble. Using them without filters increases the perceived soundstage because they're airier.

I agree that the AFO shines for female vocals, especially on good recordings. Which software are you using to EQ?

 

[nishan99]

remember that they are very open headphones
so the measurements maybe not that accurate

 

[franz12]

Also, don't forget the effect of filters on this. For those not familiar, the AFO comes with a set of three filters that allow tuning the trebble. Using them without filters increases the perceived soundstage because they're airier.

I agree that the AFO shines for female vocals, especially on good recordings. Which software are you using to EQ?

I use Soundflower- AU Lab - DMG Equality as my system-wide EQ on Mac.