I read it more as, "You're taking a roll of the dice if you buy this for low impedance iems," which is true. I'd be interested in learning about this magic 8-ball, but my iems are going to be tough to tame with EQ. If it is a good PEQ it might be doable.
Yeah - exactly how I interpreted that, Andromedas are my everyday iems. This is a disappointment for me, because everything else seems right about this player.
As I read through Joe's response - It reminded me of the way Apple just railroads through, ignoring vast parts of the market except they won't make any excuses because they already know what everyone wants- right?
I read it more as, "You're taking a roll of the dice if you buy this for low impedance iems," which is true. I'd be interested in learning about this magic 8-ball, but my iems are going to be tough to tame with EQ. If it is a good PEQ it might be doable.
Problem is you have to use EQ now with each iem you use cause you know you will not be hearing what the iem should be sounding. Instead of using EQ from time to time to change the sound because of your mood at the time. We already buy different sets of iem/headphone for different flavors right?
I guess i'm lucky that my ears suck or maybe I'm just not that picky with sound. After reading all the discussion about OI, I checked the specs of the headphone amp I use (Burson Conductor) and the OI is 30ohm! I've been connecting my UE TF10s in the Burson for a few years now and didn't really hear anything that I didn't like. When I compared it to my Chord Mojo, it didn't really change the sound signature too much to my ears. I'm glad I don't hear a difference because I wouldn't know what to do with my Burson otherwise. All my headphones/IEMs are between 24 to 50 ohm with the exception of an old HD430 at 600ohm that I rarely listen to.
Oh well, I didn't really understand the whole OI thing until I subscribed to this thread before joining in on the campaign. I took the chance, hopefully this works out well.
I guess i'm lucky that my ears suck or maybe I'm just not that picky with sound. After reading all the discussion about OI, I checked the specs of the headphone amp I use (Burson Conductor) and the OI is 30ohm! I've been connecting my UE TF10s in the Burson for a few years now and didn't really hear anything that I didn't like. When I compared it to my Chord Mojo, it didn't really change the sound signature too much to my ears. I'm glad I don't hear a difference because I wouldn't know what to do with my Burson otherwise. All my headphones/IEMs are between 24 to 50 ohm with the exception of an old HD430 at 600ohm that I rarely listen to.
Oh well, I didn't really understand the whole OI thing until I subscribed to this thread before joining in on the campaign. I took the chance, hopefully this works out well.
You must be talking about the line out impedance not the headphone out. The Burson headphone out is about 3 ohms. Not all iems have the same behavior when presented with Hi OI. Look at this measurements. Check the pink curve of the Electrical Impedance and Phase chart.
Our ears are most sensitive in the low end. As the frequency goes higher, our perception in identifying difference tends to get weaker. In your scenario TF10 will only have a problem around 10Khz. The Conductor headphone amp is not that high to make an audible enough difference. But 3x of that and most likely you will hear it. Other iems have wild impedance swing in the low frequency region. Those kind of iems are the most impacted.
Some cheap cables have high impedance to begin with (around 2Ohms) so that too becomes a big factor if your source has a high OI.
You must be talking about the line out impedance not the headphone out. The Burson headphone out is about 3 ohms. Not all iems have the same behavior when presented with Hi OI. Look at this measurements. Check the pink curve of the Electrical Impedance and Phase chart.
Our ears are most sensitive in the low end. As the frequency goes higher, our perception in identifying difference tends to get weaker. In your scenario TF10 will only have a problem around 10Khz. The Conductor headphone amp is not that high to make an audible enough difference. But 3x of that and most likely you will hear it. Other iems have wild impedance swing in the low frequency region. Those kind of iems are the most impacted.
Some cheap cables have high impedance to begin with (around 2Ohms) so that too becomes a big factor if your source has a high OI.
Thanks. Good to know. Anything you recommend that I google to better understand these graphs? Gonna have to read up on it as I'm not that knowledgeable with this stuff.
EDIT: Nevermind. Found some explanations on Innerfidelity
Problem is you have to use EQ now with each iem you use cause you know you will not be hearing what the iem should be sounding. Instead of using EQ from time to time to change the sound because of your mood at a time. We already buy different sets of iem/headphone for different flavors right?
Dude, what is the point of your argument? an IEM has a reference sound from a reference source. Normally a flat/ neutral source. So the iem have a reference sound.
Whether you like the sound or not is not the point because at some point we want to change the sound but we want to have a reference established and not just shooting in the dark.
To add to your point, if you don't EQ and you plug in your headphones, whether it's colored sound or not, if it sounds good, that's a good thing right? I mean, I know people get pretty specific and picky with listening to audio as neutral or as accurate to the recording as possible but if it makes you happy, don't see why it would be such a big deal of what the specs are.
To add to your point, if you don't EQ and you plug in your headphones, whether it's colored sound or not, if it sounds good, that's a good thing right? I mean, I know people get pretty specific and picky with listening to audio as neutral or as accurate to the recording as possible but if it makes you happy, don't see why it would be such a big deal of what the specs are.
No you are missing the point. I too use EQ to change the sound however I like it. It is easy to get the desired result if you start from neutral. A 3dB boost is 3dB boost. Otherwise, it's going to be a tedious process as your EQ will be less precise. Then depending on how the EQ is implemented, you might not get the exact sound you want. The saving grace here is it's an open Android. 3rd party apps can be installed.
Having read this entire thread and a bit of web viewings....also getting better at going over the details of a purchase and device features....the ohm issue sways me from this price point.....i have phones upon phones from years of upgrading....point being i have transports upon transports already.....having to pair a dap with an amp is going backwards.....how nice would it be to demo any of the offerings i see but in Mn thats unlikely.....maybe it would have good pairings with my spendy iems i have invested in but seems a lower ohm would be standard practice for 2018.....what a beautiful design though......
Dude, what is the point of your argument? an IEM has a reference sound from a reference source. Normally a flat/ neutral source. So the iem have a reference sound.
Whether you like the sound or not is not the point because at some point we want to change the sound but we want to have a reference established and not just shooting in the dark.
I understand what you're saying which makes sense but I think the point he was making was that it's difficult to say what a headphone should sound like given that each person is different. I get that the headphone was designed to a specific intended sound but since we all perceive sound differently, kinda hard to say what it should sound like.
With so many different sources and gear used and different combinations, wouldn't it be basically shooting in the dark every time you change your setup?
I understand what you're saying which makes sense but I think the point he was making was that it's difficult to say what a headphone should sound like given that each person is different. I get that the headphone was designed to a specific intended sound but since we all perceive sound differently, kinda hard to say what it should sound like.
With so many different sources and gear used and different combinations, wouldn't it be basically shooting in the dark every time you change your setup?
Get the FR curve of the headphone. Listen to it. Then use EQ to change it to sound how you would like it. That is my reference.That is not shooting in the dark.
Dude, what is the point of your argument? an IEM has a reference sound from a reference source. Normally a flat/ neutral source. So the iem have a reference sound.
Whether you like the sound or not is not the point because at some point we want to change the sound but we want to have a reference established and not just shooting in the dark.
No arguement but a question. I would say, for me, its not where the iem starts but can it go where I want it to go. Many flat, neutral iems cant go as low as I need it to be. Other neutral iems cant hit high enough while other so called reference iems cant give a good thick mids.
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