HIBY R6 - DAP Dual DAC Balanced Out - Great Reviews and Over 500% Funded @ Indiegogo!
Dec 6, 2017 at 8:58 AM Post #256 of 6,622
@Hawaiibadboy And thats how you do a video!
F*&^ it!! Whatever... that was funny. Now plug in some gear and give us the dirt. After you eat of course :wink:
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 9:25 AM Post #258 of 6,622
The output impedance of the R6 is still reported to be 10 ohm by the engineering department. Looking at schematics there's a fixed resistor in the signal path of that value so the logic from which output impedance is derived seems pretty fixed and straightforward.

The output impedance is what it is. Low-Z earphones with impedance swings will have their FR "shaped" to some extent according to voltage division rules. The upshot of that could be beneficial or bad for any given pair of earphones depending on the earphones' tuning at 0 ohm OI (e.g. we could have a BA set sounding dull / dark at 0 ohms yet with an impedance upswing in the treble range; the 10 ohm OI would then brighten up the earphones nicely. The opposite can hold true of course).

As far as driving ability is concerned, the 10 ohms are there precisely so that the TPA6120A may drive the lowest-Z earphones without distortion or instability. So theoretically low-Z earphones work "well". Damping factor is a term to be reserved for damping of driver resonances; low-Z IEMs have no such thing but have ear canal resonances which are not treatable via damping factor. The technical issue that remains then is the frequency response change noted above. Consult your earphones' impedance response curve and frequency response curve. Do frequency response peaks meet with impedance response dips or vice versa? Therein lies the answer to whether the R6 can complement your low-Z earphones. No impedance response data? Take a roll of the dice--or take advantage of the advanced tone shaping functions (the MageSound 8-ball) to be added to the R6 exclusive version of HiBy Music.

Finally, one indisputable benefit of a bit of output impedance is that they make low-Z earphones less sensitive to the amplifier, which reduces amp noise. When an amp has 300mW on tap even at 32 ohms and the multi-BA low-Z IEM in question has like 120dB / mW sensitivity, this is no trivial matter. For example I was testing a FiiO E17K headphone amp (0 OI, 200-odd mW into 32 ohms) against the R6 with one such pair of IEMs. The R6 sounded brighter with said IEMs, I was ambivalent about the merit of this for said IEMs. But the E17K hissed. Not just a little bit, but quite noticeably even at minimum gain.

Well, that is all I have to say on the subject for now. Whatever you decide, I'll be here waiting, listening to some happy tunes on my R6 :)

With early seasons' greetings,
Joe
That's a bummer.
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 10:03 AM Post #260 of 6,622
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Gonna start with EX1000. They dig every detail and I know them best.
Sounds great on first listen. Have not looked for an EQ. Bass has weight vocals are right there lots of space. Very nice work Joe!
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM Post #263 of 6,622
Could someone, who have the device on hands, describe general feeling about Android OS stability, performance, and general firmware quality? For example how good is the english translation, icons, other quality? I'm asking since I'm pissing out from FiiO X7 firmware quality and want to switch from it to something better.

Thanks.
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 10:43 AM Post #265 of 6,622
Could someone, who have the device on hands, describe general feeling about Android OS stability, performance, and general firmware quality? For example how good is the english translation, icons, other quality? I'm asking since I'm pissing out from FiiO X7 firmware quality and want to switch from it to something better.

Thanks.

My hope would that it be a pretty vanilla implementation. There is no need for what you're describing, the audio changes are low-level, so the OS should be pretty bone stock.

I am hoping Project Treble (http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/25/googles-project-treble-start-custom-rom-revolution/) leads to much easier roming for these oems that aren't really great at it. Do some low level implementations around the audio, and then you could even open up the bootloader and allow for custom roming even without the worry that it will "ruin audio performance" as the OS would be split away from all of that. Unfortunately, we're likely 2-3 years from any DAPs running Oreo, unless we see a push from the user-base, as there is another potentially great feature baked right in to the stock Android 8.0 bluetooth stack: LDAC.
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 12:27 PM Post #268 of 6,622
The output impedance of the R6 is still reported to be 10 ohm by the engineering department. Looking at schematics there's a fixed resistor in the signal path of that value so the logic from which output impedance is derived seems pretty fixed and straightforward.

The output impedance is what it is. Low-Z earphones with impedance swings will have their FR "shaped" to some extent according to voltage division rules. The upshot of that could be beneficial or bad for any given pair of earphones depending on the earphones' tuning at 0 ohm OI (e.g. we could have a BA set sounding dull / dark at 0 ohms yet with an impedance upswing in the treble range; the 10 ohm OI would then brighten up the earphones nicely. The opposite can hold true of course).

As far as driving ability is concerned, the 10 ohms are there precisely so that the TPA6120A may drive the lowest-Z earphones without distortion or instability. So theoretically low-Z earphones work "well". Damping factor is a term to be reserved for damping of driver resonances; low-Z IEMs have no such thing but have ear canal resonances which are not treatable via damping factor. The technical issue that remains then is the frequency response change noted above. Consult your earphones' impedance response curve and frequency response curve. Do frequency response peaks meet with impedance response dips or vice versa? Therein lies the answer to whether the R6 can complement your low-Z earphones. No impedance response data? Take a roll of the dice--or take advantage of the advanced tone shaping functions (the MageSound 8-ball) to be added to the R6 exclusive version of HiBy Music.

Finally, one indisputable benefit of a bit of output impedance is that they make low-Z earphones less sensitive to the amplifier, which reduces amp noise. When an amp has 300mW on tap even at 32 ohms and the multi-BA low-Z IEM in question has like 120dB / mW sensitivity, this is no trivial matter. For example I was testing a FiiO E17K headphone amp (0 OI, 200-odd mW into 32 ohms) against the R6 with one such pair of IEMs. The R6 sounded brighter with said IEMs, I was ambivalent about the merit of this for said IEMs. But the E17K hissed. Not just a little bit, but quite noticeably even at minimum gain.

Well, that is all I have to say on the subject for now. Whatever you decide, I'll be here waiting, listening to some happy tunes on my R6 :)

With early seasons' greetings,
Joe

"take a roll of the dice"..... WOW..... epic failure. Those explanations/excuses are actually kind of offending Joe. I'll gamble in Vegas ...thank you.
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #269 of 6,622
Dec 6, 2017 at 1:49 PM Post #270 of 6,622
"take a roll of the dice"..... WOW..... epic failure. Those explanations/excuses are actually kind of offending Joe. I'll gamble in Vegas ...thank you.

I read it more as, "You're taking a roll of the dice if you buy this for low impedance iems," which is true. I'd be interested in learning about this magic 8-ball, but my iems are going to be tough to tame with EQ. If it is a good PEQ it might be doable.
 

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