[BushGuy]

.........as Miguel was appropriately using the necessary qualifier "to my ears" - so should all have the same understanding. A ton of posters writing whatever, do not equal truth to many others. There can never be a "consensus" no matter what piece of equipment, or what recording. The only approach to truth (without simply relying on your own ears) is to pick and choose the one or two peeps whom you've come to trust. I can't understand why anyone would choose to rely on statements by people they really do not know at all - even if the individual has 3k, 5k, 12k or more posts. They are inconsequential
Please understand, I'm not picking on Miguel in any way..........I just wanted to make a point at this particular point at this juncture in time. ........which has been made before by others.

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidranger1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif When people say the HF-2 has less of the detail, they mean in comparing only to the RS-1, isn't that so? But it still has very much detail as a Grado, yes? Also for saying it is "dark." That is by comparing, no? It will not be dark like a Sennheiser?

This is getting to be a family feud between happy owners of the HF2 and defensive lovers of the RS1. In side-by-side tests between the RS1 - which will always be the classic Grado flagship - and the recently dethroned flagship GS1k, the GS1k had punchier bass but recessed mids. When both cans were heard with the same set of bowls, the GS1k had more bass; the RS1 had more upper midrange.

That's basically the difference between the HF1 and the RS1. The HF1 has more pronounced bass and slightly recessed mids while the RS1 has less bass and more midrange, especially high mids. I chortle at the claim that the RS1 is more "revealing." If, by revealing, you mean it has more high mids, then sure. Not everybody has a love affair with high mids. If you're listening to rock, you may want more bass and less of the mids in your face.

Those who say the HF2 is "grittier" are commenting from the perspective of pre-burn-in. All Grados sound "grittier" before they're burned in, even the beloved RS1.

Those who say the HF2 is "darker" are speaking out of the wrong orifice. The HF2 is not "darker" except in the sense that it's less "bright." Another way to describe this difference is to say that it's more "balanced," though the kick in the bass is obviously a bit of coloring. The HF2 is not a "dark" phone. It is not a Sennheiser. Like all Grados, it puts no filter between the listener and the driver, so there is no veil. People who hate Grados as "bright" will also lump the HF2 into the same Grado category, but they'll have less to hate from the HF2, which has much more visceral bass and less ear-piercing treble.

I totally understand the preference for the RS-1, which is more even. One man's delight at all that bass can easily be another's loss at not having more high mids. Stated another way, if I were listening to classical, I'd prefer the RS-1. And for that person back there who suggested the Grados can't do classical, I completely disagree. They do classical wonderfully. It's just that acoustic music is the area in which a headphone like the K701 will shine. With music that has a lot of "siss," the K701s need an amp; otherwise, they produce a lot of ear fatigue mega-fast. Where the presentation is more natural (more violins, less cymbals), more extended highs will bring out more detail. If you want that effect, but all means, by a pair of jumbo pads and treat yourself to a G-701 (wink, wink). An SR60 will jumbos may sound too bright for rock but there's little harm doing it with classical.

I look forward to the day when Grado lovers keep multiple pads on hand, fully aware that the pads can brighten or darken the presentation to fit differences in the source material.

 

[K3cT]

I think you bring up some very interesting insights so I have to thank you for that, Bilavideo.

I'm just going to comment a little bit. The problem with Grados with exception of GS1000, MS-Pro and PS1000 is that they lack the spatial imaging which is needed to convey the grandeur of full-sized orchestra. Every instrument tends to sound squished together in the same plane. Well, this is not an issue for me at least as I understand that Grados are not meant for grand orchestral pieces, it is meant to "rock your genitals out" as Uncle Erik so eloquently put back then.

And as for your comment in regards of Sennheiser, The HD600/650 is definitely not veiled nor dark when properly amped. Laid-back perhaps but far, far away from those qualities you mentioned. If you have the proper supporting gears, the HD600 is actually a good value can to complement the HF2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif .........as Miguel was appropriately using the necessary qualifier "to my ears" - so should all have the same understanding. A ton of posters writing whatever, do not equal truth to many others. There can never be a "consensus" no matter what piece of equipment, or what recording. The only approach to truth (without simply relying on your own ears) is to pick and choose the one or two peeps whom you've come to trust. I can't understand why anyone would choose to rely on statements by people they really do not know at all - even if the individual has 3k, 5k, 12k or more posts. They are inconsequential Please understand, I'm not picking on Miguel in any way..........I just wanted to make a point at this particular point at this juncture in time. ........which has been made before by others.

This is probably the greatest truth spoken in this thread and hence, the intent of my initial remark to Darksyde. As far as we love to yammer about our gears here, your own ears will be the ultimate deciding factor.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif .........as Miguel was appropriately using the necessary qualifier "to my ears" - so should all have the same understanding. A ton of posters writing whatever, do not equal truth to many others. There can never be a "consensus" no matter what piece of equipment, or what recording. The only approach to truth (without simply relying on your own ears) is to pick and choose the one or two peeps whom you've come to trust. I can't understand why anyone would choose to rely on statements by people they really do not know at all - even if the individual has 3k, 5k, 12k or more posts. They are inconsequential Please understand, I'm not picking on Miguel in any way..........I just wanted to make a point at this particular point at this juncture in time. ........which has been made before by others.

The differences between the two seem to be consistently put forward in this and other threads. If I were choosing, I'd choose the RS1 which I have now ordered. I've done so not because of a tally of who prefer the RS1 or the HF-2 but from reading the perceived differences sonically, and then choosing which of the two sonic characters would best suite my needs and tastes. I did the same when considering the Ed8's vs the HD800's and haven't regretted going with the Ed8 since it worked out to be exactly what I was looking for and expected from the descriptions I read of it; not feelings of dislike, love or adoration.

You're making these threads out to be far less useful than they really are and anyways, ending descriptions with one's own subjective opinion is always nice to read as well. Nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.

 

[stang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure if that is an entirely accurate statement. Some people were selling spare TF10's that they had purchased from the sale. Others sell them because of fit and seal problems, which is not uncommon. No doubt there are also those who sell them because the sound signature does not appeal.

Well, as I pretty much stated in my original message, most people sold theirs to profit or sold them coz they didn't like them overall. This could include sound quality and looks and feel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know that you have the HF2, but do you have first hand experience with the RS1 in order to make this comparison?

I have read many, many threads and In my message I did state "FWIR". There was really n point for your reply to my message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif A note about "B Stock" sale. Those of us who were around for HF-1 ..........when Todd announced a similar follow-up sale of HF-1 (and it was a similar number of pairs)....you had to be able grab your pair the moment the sale began. A few seconds later (yes, it was a matter of seconds) they were all gone. Can't say for sure whether this will be a repeat of history........but, be aware. Additionally: Despite what has been sometimes written in this thread about bad samples - I was able to buy 3 (with the help of a couple of friends who do not consider Grado, but ordere4d their pair for me) and all were without any noticeable imperfections.

Those were HF-2 though. These HF-2 have metal cups, which are bound to come with imperfections. Scratches, dents, smudges from something etc.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I think the HF2 is the best headphone John Grado ever made. Well, to be honest, I haven't heard the PS1000, but I have a pretty good idea based on impressions.

The HF2 is my favorite by a large margin, and simply because it lacks what I see as a major fault in John's designs- the huge treble emphasis. It is not listenable to me. So almost by default, since the HF2 has almost none of this, it is my favorite. To me it has much more realistic timbre, tone and balance. Of course it doesn't sound as detailed as the RS1, because it doesn't have the treble spike. But I don't think it is actually less detailed. Details are just less in your face. The treble emphasis of the RS1 brings things (which are actually supposed to be low in the mix) to the front, like fingers rubbing on guitar strings. Those are still there on the HF2, but they are not as loud. The same is true of the air people talk about with the RS1. I believe this is the same thing, more treble, maybe larger chamber, and less bass = an airier sound. I personally think this treble presentation comes at the expense of subtlety, because when one part of the spectrum is thrown out above others, it is more difficult to hear nuances in the rest of the spectrum, or feel the whole sound at once.

So I really think it comes down to whether you prefer a sound that focuses on balance and tone, or whether detail is more important to you, and you want an emphasized treble to make details in your face.

balance/tone - HF2
in your face detail - RS1

 

[tengen]

Owning neither, I've been wondering the same question myself. Reading the posts here on this forum the RS-1 seem to fit my tastes more. Plus, I love the wooden look of the RS1. Been looking on the FS forums for one.

I've been lurking here for a while.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

I own a button RS1 which sound I can't dislike but since my ears are very sensitive I find it to be to much hear piercing with rock but wonderful with acoustic.

You think the HF2 would be more comfortable in this regard ?

 

[iponderous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, as I pretty much stated in my original message, most people sold theirs to profit or sold them coz they didn't like them overall. This could include sound quality and looks and feel. I have read many, many threads and In my message I did state "FWIR". There was really n point for your reply to my message.

No, you were quite specific in your post when you stated that people were selling the TF10 because they did not like its sound signature.

I simply asked if you had heard the RS1. It would appear that you have not. With respect, I attach more weight to descriptions and opinions of headphone sound signatures offered by those who have actually heard them.

 

[unlimited]

I would prefer Rs1 since it cheaper, I think the price of HF2 is kind of too high for me right now. They go up to $500 right now but I wish I get a chance to buy the B-stock

 

[vidranger1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlimited /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would prefer Rs1 since it cheaper, I think the price of HF2 is kind of too high for me right now. They go up to $500 right now but I wish I get a chance to buy the B-stock

RS-1 is $695 new, not cheaper. Used it might be cheaper than new or resale HF-2, but probably still not less than these B-stock HF-2.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidranger1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif RS-1 is $695 new, not cheaper. Used it might be cheaper than new or resale HF-2, but probably not these B-stock HF-2.

I find that the resale prices are on par. Maybe not now with the B-stock sale. But after a few weeks they should settle back to the same.

I seriously looked (and listened) into the HF2s when I was looking to get back into Grados, but I settled into the RS1i's and haven't looked back. The HF2s were great (and especially for the B stock price), but I still preferred the RS1/RS1i more refined and better detailed sound.

 

[regal]

After buying a new set of MS-Pros I put my HF-2's up for sale. The HF-2's with bowls sound too much like Sennheisers to me, the rock guitar is too far back. I prefer the in your face guitar attack that the MS1's and MS-Pros provide. As far as bass, with flats the MS-Pros have more bass impact than the HF-2s. And if you try flats on HF-2 you just get a muddy mess. Best compromise for HF-2s are comfies but then you lose clarity, I rate them as better RS2i's but no where near the calibre of RS1is/MS-Pros.

 

[stang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif After buying a new set of MS-Pros I put my HF-2's up for sale. The HF-2's with bowls sound too much like Sennheisers to me, the rock guitar is too far back. I prefer the in your face guitar attack that the MS1's and MS-Pros provide. As far as bass, with flats the MS-Pros have more bass impact than the HF-2s. And if you try flats on HF-2 you just get a muddy mess. Best compromise for HF-2s are comfies but then you lose clarity, I rate them as better RS2i's but no where near the calibre of RS1is/MS-Pros.

Now I really, really have to try the MS-Pro and RS-1i

 

[jjinh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now I really, really have to try the MS-Pro and RS-1i

I've had the same though for a while, but got sidetracked with the stax... now to lurk on the fs forums