[ian-500]

Ok guys, the Ultrasone phones are obviously not well liked. Sounds like I may have to raise my limit of investment. I've noticed a couple of high end closed backs that I like the look of, and these are the Fostex 600 and the Audio Technica W1000. These are similarly priced on the used market.
Priorities:
Comfort
Sound quality
Sound leakage
Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Yes, this is true but I think why some prefer hardware manipulation is because it can be harder to make considerable change in the frequency response with a parametric equalizer without introducing distortion than to get equipment that tunes the sound up but won't introduce distortion. I was curious and I tried the equalizer APO +6 dB 30hz-and-under preset I use on my SZ2000 and K550''s with the HE-560 and I heard quite noticeably the distortion and unbalance it causes. Maybe I'd find a sweet spot if I spent more time trying but to my ears the headphone doesn't need it even if I could. 
 
I'm not saying I'd be interested in thorough tube rolling in the future (it's a wallet's nightmare), but I was just conveying with that post that the setup and source feeding it will always be an important factor on what is heard through the headphones. My first resort is always to eq but not every headphone reacts all that well to it as I found out. I wouldn't have even written anything if he didn't mention he tried it on a poor chain anyway so realistically with a headphone like this one that doesn't work with every possible setup out there, there's a big chance you'll hear exactly what was fed. I think it's safe to assume eq would be a hopeless remedy in that context.
 
JVC SZ2000, I personally only stick with electronic music and hip hop with that. But not just any track out of those genres either, grooves and deep bass with rumble to shake some skin on my face 

. I guess you hit the nail on the head .

 
It's true that EQ can only do so much, but most people have no idea how to use EQ.
 
Here's the right way to do it:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
 
The general wisdom is that you should reduce frequencies and not boost them. If you just boost frequencies, it's probably going to sound awful. There's a lot more to it as well.
 

Ok guys, the Ultrasone phones are obviously not well liked. Sounds like I may have to raise my limit of investment. I've noticed a couple of high end closed backs that I like the look of, and these are the Fostex 600 and the Audio Technica W1000. These are similarly priced on the used market.
Priorities:
Comfort
Sound quality
Sound leakage
Let me know your thoughts.

 
Add the Audeze EL-8 Closed-Back to your list of headphones to research. There have been a few good posts about it even in this thread.

 

[ian-500]

Yes I would certainly be interested in the EL8, as when I demoed them I thought that they were fantastic, but they've only just come out so not many around, on the used market anyway!

 

[Music Alchemist]

Yes I would certainly be interested in the EL8, as when I demoed them I thought that they were fantastic, but they've only just come out so not many around, on the used market anyway!

 
FYI, Sonic Electronix has a deal going on right now where you can get the EL-8 brand new for $600 with the coupon code "HappyEars" -- that's around the price it goes for on the used market.

 

[DreamKing]

   
It's true that EQ can only do so much, but most people have no idea how to use EQ.
 
Here's the right way to do it:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
 
The general wisdom is that you should reduce frequencies and not boost them. If you just boost frequencies, it's probably going to sound awful. There's a lot more to it as well.

 
Out of my stack, my HE-560 doesn't need any reduction eq but this is good info I'll keep for future headphones, much thanks. 

 
 
I guess that's the other reason people go for hardware tuning, to boost certain areas of the headphone without hindering the tonal balance.
 
 
A minor to moderate sub-bass boost never sounds awful to me as it doesn't affect the rest of the sound negatively when I tune the slope correctly. For the K550 and SZ2K, I just boost at 30hz, with a downward slope from there and it adds presence, low bass obv and weight. 

 

[Kony]

Hi guys,
 
Has anyone had any experience listening to metal on Bayerdynamics Custom One Pros?

 

[Music Alchemist]

I missed out on that HD 800...but I will probably buy an HD 650 soon.
 
Anyone have thoughts on the HD 650 with metal?

 

[money4me247]

  I missed out on that HD 800...but I will probably buy an HD 650 soon.
 
Anyone have thoughts on the HD 650 with metal?

from my comparisons, I personally think the HE-400i is better for metal than the HD650 as the HE-400i is faster sounding. ymmv

 

[Music Alchemist]

  from my comparisons, I personally think the HE-400i is better for metal than the HD650 as the HE-400i is faster sounding. ymmv

 
I see. Since I recently owned the HE-400i, I'll see if I can hear what you're talking about.

 

[Henrik84]

HD650 are usually not recommended for metal music listening. The HD600, however, are. Earlier one person in this thread disagreed with Levap and said that they are in his opinion just perfect for all kinds of black metal (symphonic, folk, melodic...). The HD650 have dark and veiled sound, HD600 are brighter. If you couple HD650 with Heed Canamp headphone amplifier, you get a sound that is smooth and bloated without a drip of aggression.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  HD650 are usually not recommended for metal music listening. The HD600, however, are. Earlier one person in this thread disagreed with Levap and said that they are in his opinion just perfect for all kinds of black metal (symphonic, folk, melodic...). The HD650 have dark and veiled sound, HD600 are brighter. If you couple HD650 with Heed Canamp headphone amplifier, you get a sound that is smooth and bloated without a drip of aggression.

 
And here's another perspective:
 

Yes, I will get a pair of HD650s someday. They are the best headphone there is for the W3. Warm and smooth sounding that you could listen to for hours.

Did I just say warm and smooth to define the sound of headphones?

i had my Woo 5 LE at a Head-Fi meet and had the Woo 3 sitting out on a table for sale. This new guy askes to try it, plug the Woo 3 where my 5LE was. The guy comes over with the HD650s and plugs them in. I had never heard the W3 ever sound so good. I then took the sale tag off the Woo3 and decided to keep it.

They are said to be made where the early ones were dark and the new one not much. Don't know how much truth is in that.

They should be good with bright SS. Some here like the HD650s better than anything made.

They maybe don't seem like metal headphones, but they are.

I did not listen to all genres of metal, but I think they would be fine as the stuff I was playing was mixed genre in a way.

I know in about 60 seconds if I'm going to like a headphone. Maybe equipment takes a while, but headphones are easy, I just know what sound I like.

The HD650 has a really big guitar harmonic to it. Soundstage is big plus it is medium fast which works, mind you I was only using the W3, it could be very different with other amps.

In testing gear I always ask myself if I could listen long term and be happy. The mids are the best and metal is all mids anyway.

 

[Hansotek]

  I missed out on that HD 800...but I will probably buy an HD 650 soon.
 
Anyone have thoughts on the HD 650 with metal?

 
I own both, and they really couldn't be any more different. HD650 sounds nice with some slower stuff. They really rock with Opeth's Damnation. Older stuff like Sabbath sounds nice too.
 
But once the music picks up any speed the HD650 really starts to falter. The decay is a little slower and thicker than usual. It totally throws off the PRAT on anything fast. For example, the syncopated kick bursts (in the sequence starting at 2:38) on Meshuggah's Obzen drag behind the rest of the music, compared to headphones with sharper decay qualities. The HD800, and even many lower  models like the DT990, DT880 and HE400 (+FocusPad) exert a lot more control in this regard.
 
Picking up the speed further will accentuate the problem even more. Necrophagist's Stabwound shows a complete loss of control in the PRAT. The band sounds like it's desperately trying to keep up with itself, which is not the truth at all. The other headphones I mentioned put the band's incredible technical proficiency on full display. Notes fly in and out with far more control and precision, which allow you to fully appreciate the neo-classical elements of the composition and all of the individual players involved. HD650 makes it sound a bit more like "Dudes who are just playing fast".
 
Overall, the HD650 is a pretty good headphone, but it's not really at its best with most kinds of metal. If you pair it with classic rock, R&B or acoustic stuff and a nice tube amp, it's awesome... but even if that sort of music your thing, I think you have better options available.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I own both, and they really couldn't be any more different. HD650 sounds nice with some slower stuff. They really rock with Opeth's Damnation. Older stuff like Sabbath sounds nice too.
 
But once the music picks up any speed the HD650 really starts to falter. The decay is a little slower and thicker than usual. It totally throws off the PRAT on anything fast. For example, the syncopated kick bursts (in the sequence starting at 2:38) on Meshuggah's Obzen drag behind the rest of the music, compared to headphones with sharper decay qualities. The HD800, and even many lower  models like the DT990, DT880 and HE400 (+FocusPad) exert a lot more control in this regard.
 
Picking up the speed further will accentuate the problem even more. Necrophagist's Stabwound shows a complete loss of control in the PRAT. The band sounds like it's desperately trying to keep up with itself, which is not the truth at all. The other headphones I mentioned put the band's incredible technical proficiency on full display. Notes fly in and out with far more control and precision, which allow you to fully appreciate the neo-classical elements of the composition and all of the individual players involved. HD650 makes it sound a bit more like "Dudes who are just playing fast".
 
Overall, the HD650 is a pretty good headphone, but it's not really at its best with most kinds of metal. If you pair it with classic rock, R&B or acoustic stuff and a nice tube amp, it's awesome... but even if that sort of music your thing, I think you have better options available.

 
Thanks for your thoughts!
 
Sennheiser headphones do tend to sound mellow and laid-back to me. The Focal Spirit Professional was the opposite, in my opinion: really great dynamics, speed, physicality, and so on. But I got rid of it to more easily try other (usually more expensive) headphones.
 
I'm getting the HD 650 for a great price from the same person I got an HD 700 from. I listen to nearly all types of music, so it doesn't have to be great with everything. Don't expect it to be my favorite, but I wanted to try it out regardless.
 
On a side note, the DT 880 was the most boring headphone I've heard. (Not that it was bad per se; just not my cup of tea at all.)

 

[NZtechfreak]

At a great price try the 650, why not? Certainly not one I would recommend for metal, but as always YMMV.

 

[Henrik84]

HD650 are not recommended for metal but the AKG K712 PRO are.
 
Maybe you should get them?
 
 
(Really looking forward to the impressions on metal with Mrspeakers flagship Ether)