[Graphicism]

Quote:

Depends on how you define good audio.
 
Like I stated at the beginning of my review, I used a pretty decent setup. It consisted of the HE-500, EF5, CD-P650, and a few other components. I was running only audio CD's rather than any type of MP3 file, and had a pretty nice DAC built into the P650. Was it good? Yeah, it was pretty fantastic. Is it as good as it could be? Heck no. I'm sure thousands of dollars worth of equipment can sound amazing, but unfortunately, I'll never get that far (nor do I plan to spend that much). But from what I've experienced, I am liking what I have now, nearly the best. Sound wise, not quite. But for what it's worth, I don't think I can do all that much better. Yet, as I said, I've got a bit of money to burn, and music is my passion, so I'll experiment.
 

A google search tells me you used a $155 CD player...
 

 
If this is the case I would hazard a guess this doesn't come close to even a standalone op-amp based DAC of which doesn't come close to a discrete DAC. More often than not a built-in DAC from a CD player or even newer network music devices like the squeezebox use very cheap and efficient parts. To a further extent Teac probably reserve their better DACs for far more expensive units, and even then I would gladly pit it against a reasonable separate DAC.
 
Really I'm not talking about spending thousands of dollars on the 'ultimate setup' instead spending the money wisely between products, leaving no weak link in the chain. Take my sig setup for instance, far from a flamboyant dream; a DT880 powered by a simple OTL amp to listen to a discrete source. If anything the weak link in my setup could be considered the DT880, however up until a few years ago this was top-of-the-line, a story for another time, but did Sennheiser, Beyer, Audeze and Hifiman really create a better (more expensive) phone at the same time, or is it just marketing? -- Case in point, people today spend far too much time with these new fads and little to no thought at all to the rest of their system. To give you a personal example of this; I have heard a Beyer T1 on an under-powered solid-state amp and my measly DT880 with 336i sounded much more hi-fi for a quarter of the price.
 
It's pleasing to hear you're going to experiment further, if you're open to it I'll make a few suggestions and we'll see how that compares.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

If this is the case I would hazard a guess this doesn't come close to even a standalone op-amp based DAC of which doesn't come close to a discrete DAC. More often than not a built-in DAC from a CD player or even newer network music devices like the squeezebox use very cheap and efficient parts. To a further extent Teac probably reserve their better DACs for far more expensive units, and even then I would gladly pit it against a reasonable separate DAC.
 
Really I'm not talking about spending thousands of dollars on the 'ultimate setup' instead spending the money wisely between products, leaving no weak link in the chain. Take my sig setup for instance, far from a flamboyant dream; a DT880 powered by a simple OTL amp to listen to a discrete source. If anything the weak link in my setup could be considered the DT880, however up until a few years ago this was top-of-the-line, a story for another time, but did Sennheiser, Beyer, Audeze and Hifiman really create a better (more expensive) phone at the same time, or is it just marketing? -- Case in point, people today spend far too much time with these new fads and little to no thought at all to the rest of their system. To give you a personal example of this; I have heard a Beyer T1 on an under-powered solid-state amp and my measly DT880 with 336i sounded much more hi-fi for a quarter of the price.
 
It's pleasing to hear you're going to experiment further, if you're open to it I'll make a few suggestions and we'll see how that compares.

Yes, I realize it's not all that good, but at the time I didn't want to spend more than I did. Now that I realize that that is definitely the weakest component in my system, I cannot help but wonder what else I could get in the future that would further my rig. I will admit, I've been kinda lazy and don't want to take the time for research, yet have a decent amount of money to spend. So as of now, I'm just going iAudio 7 > FXC51 until I figure out what I'm going to do in the future.
 
You know, I always wished to do what you did with your system. That is, create a system that doesn't break the bank, yet has strong links throughout the chain. That's something I hope I can accomplish in the future, but I'm not sure how patient I can be discovering and building one. I've kinda been on the lookout for users and their comments, suggesting "complete" systems, kinda like you have. Because I want something that has equal links throughout, so I can hit excellent SQ and value.
 
I'd love some suggestions if you don't mind. Shoot me anything and everything you have in mind.
 

 

[Nom de Plume]

 

A 'myopic simile' is like saying 'narrow-minded figure of speech' which is a double negative entendre, I'm asking you what you mean by it and you post it again. Throwing random words around for a stuck up quip and not able to explain yourself when pressed is spam in my opinion.

 

If you think thoughtless blather is spam, I suggest you look at your own comment (i.e. spam) before you dismiss mine as such. 
Double negative entendre? Nothing of the sort. It couldn't be construed as such even by the most lax interpretation (though I suppose you could contend otherwise if you misunderstood my post). Don't mindlessly juggle with words.
I wonder how this eludes you. My post isn't cryptic in any way; it is what it is. Well, I'll spell it out for you.
 
You say that (verbatim) "making do with an MP3 player and MP3s is like giving up." On what? The pursuit of high fidelity? 
Let's look at it another way. 
I played the violin for 13 years. Yes, 13 years. I started when I was 5 years old (my mother used to be a professional violinist). However, I never took the violin seriously until my mom took me to an orchestral performance when I was 12. The atmosphere... It captivated - no, it consumed me. That experience was like no other. The percussion, double bass, trombones, and tubas bellowed across the concert hall and stripped me naked of thought; the cellos and violas sang so beautifully, even Sirens were brought to shame; the flutes and clarinets lulled their audience with euphony so soothing, no man could resist their gentle urges; the violins overwhelmed their audience with such glorious vivacity that I felt my eardrums kneel in praise.
Afterwards, I wanted to do nothing but to follow in my mom's footsteps. 5 years later, I was the assistant concertmaster in a college orchestra even though I was still in high school. Many recruiters personally approached me with talks of scholarships and (obviously) recruitment. I rejected all of their offers, and I left the orchestra after I entered my senior year. Did I "give up" on the violin? After pursuing the experience that became the bedrock of my next 5 years, I finally attained contentment. I did not give up on the violin; I did not give up on that pursuit; I still get to hear my twin brother play the violin (his musicality is subpar to none, but he can be lazy); I still attend as many orchestral performances as I can; I'm still just as enthralled by the atmosphere of a concert hall. I've come to understand and fully enjoy the experience, even when I am not the one on the stage.
 
Do you understand now? I gave up nothing. I gained everything. Many of us will reach a similar resolution. You think we're "giving up," but it simply isn't so. All journeys come to an end, and we will not always arrive at the same end. Katun has reached his "destination," an area (or price bracket in this case) which he finds most suitable for him (well, maybe), and you cannot tell him, or anyone else, where our ends lie. Decide your own end, not others'. 
 
If you want to continue this, I'll be happy to do so via PM. Let's not clutter this thread with tangential discussion.
edit: grammar
 

 

[Katun]

Quote:

A google search tells me you used a $155 CD player...

Also, just to note.
 
The main reason I bought that was to use it as a CD transport. It was the absolute cheapest CD player I could find that had a "digital out" on the back, so I could later upgrade with standalone DACs. I just wanted a device that played a CD, and that's it. My future DAC and current amp (was EF5) would take care of the rest. Other than a CD player than that, I really have no other ideas for sources, besides an digital player of course.
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Yes, I realize it's not all that good, but at the time I didn't want to spend more than I did. Now that I realize that that is definitely the weakest component in my system, I cannot help but wonder what else I could get in the future that would further my rig. I will admit, I've been kinda lazy and don't want to take the time for research, yet have a decent amount of money to spend. So as of now, I'm just going iAudio 7 > FXC51 until I figure out what I'm going to do in the future.
 
You know, I always wished to do what you did with your system. That is, create a system that doesn't break the bank, yet has strong links throughout the chain. That's something I hope I can accomplish in the future, but I'm not sure how patient I can be discovering and building one. I've kinda been on the lookout for users and their comments, suggesting "complete" systems, kinda like you have. Because I want something that has equal links throughout, so I can hit excellent SQ and value.
 
I'd love some suggestions if you don't mind. Shoot me anything and everything you have in mind.
 

The problem I've found with the majority of CD players, even those recommended with decent DACs don't sound as good as an op-amp based DAC like a $100 Zero DAC for instance. As mentioned previously discrete DACs like the new DL III and W4S DAC for example are even better still. So while I haven't heard your source and I would think you are missing a lot, like driving a Lamborghini with the engine of a Yugo.
 
 
Building a solid system doesn't have to cost a fortune, perhaps the price of a current flagship headphone. Very few people with such a budget don't want to consider such a build, instead they spend there money on a flagship and plug it into a Fiio or soundcard as an after thought.
 
As far as suggestions; what's the best headphone you've heard? - build a system around that consisting of a good amp (good tubes are cheaper than good solid-states) with the addition of a well regarded discrete DAC.


Quote:

Also, just to note.
 
The main reason I bought that was to use it as a CD transport. It was the absolute cheapest CD player I could find that had a "digital out" on the back, so I could later upgrade with standalone DACs. I just wanted a device that played a CD, and that's it. My future DAC and current amp (was EF5) would take care of the rest. Other than a CD player than that, I really have no other ideas for sources, besides an digital player of course.
 

Yeah a digital out will feed a DAC just fine. To my understanding your playing CDs and have it plugged directly into an amp, this is where the SQ drops.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

The problem I've found with the majority of CD players, even those recommended with decent DACs don't sound as good as an op-amp based DAC like a $100 Zero DAC for instance. As mentioned previously discrete DACs like the new DL III and W4S DAC for example are even better still. So while I haven't heard your source and I would think you are missing a lot, like driving a Lamborghini with the engine of a Yugo.
 
Building a solid system doesn't have to cost a fortune, perhaps the price of a current flagship headphone. Very few people with such a budget don't want to consider such a build, instead they spend there money on a flagship and plug it into a Fiio or soundcard as an after thought.
 
As far as suggestions; what's the best headphone you've heard? - build a system around that consisting of a good amp (good tubes are cheaper than good solid-states) with the addition of a well regarded discrete DAC.

Yeah a digital out will feed a DAC just fine. To my understanding your playing CDs and have it plugged directly into an amp, this is where the SQ drops.

See that's the thing. Besides a laptop and MP3 player, the only other way to "play" music I know of is through a CD player. My MP3 doesn't have a line out, so I don't even bother encoding with FLAC for use with a system. I currently do not own a laptop, and unfortunately won't be getting one anytime soon, so I'd think the only way for me to build a rig is through the use of a CD transporter. Other than that, I wouldn't have bought that thing. What I thought I was able to do, is completely bypass everything inside, and have an external amp and DAC take care of the rest, while still getting the loseless quality from the CD. Perhaps I was mistaken?
 
About the best headphone. The problem is, according to what you've told me, I haven't heard anything up to it's full potential. So the problem is, I don't really know what I'd like best now. Maybe I'd absolutely love the DT880 or HD650 amped properly. Or maybe not. From what I've had, the HE-500 was the best headphone I've heard, but I don't plan on spending that kind of money just for a single headphone again at the time being. To tell you the truth, I'd almost like to revisit a headphone I've owned in the past ($250-$300ish) and build a good system around it. But again, I wouldn't know which one to build it around. What if you hit the end of your system and asked, "This is it? I don't really like this headphone all that much". That's probably why I was doing it completely backwards in the past, and building the headphone around my system. That was probably a mistake on my part. But as of now, I'm still not sure what's going to go down.
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

See that's the thing. Besides a laptop and MP3 player, the only other way to "play" music I know of is through a CD player. My MP3 doesn't have a line out, so I don't even bother encoding with FLAC for use with a system. I currently do not own a laptop, and unfortunately won't be getting one anytime soon, so I'd think the only way for me to build a rig is through the use of a CD transporter. Other than that, I wouldn't have bought that thing. What I thought I was able to do, is completely bypass everything inside, and have an external amp and DAC take care of the rest, while still getting the loseless quality from the CD. Perhaps I was mistaken?
 
About the best headphone. The problem is, according to what you've told me, I haven't heard anything up to it's full potential. So the problem is, I don't really know what I'd like best now. Maybe I'd absolutely love the DT880 or HD650 amped properly. Or maybe not. From what I've had, the HE-500 was the best headphone I've heard, but I don't plan on spending that kind of money just for a single headphone again at the time being. To tell you the truth, I'd almost like to revisit a headphone I've owned in the past ($250-$300ish) and build a good system around it. But again, I wouldn't know which one to build it around. What if you hit the end of your system and asked, "This is it? I don't really like this headphone all that much". That's probably why I was doing it completely backwards in the past, and building the headphone around my system. That was probably a mistake on my part. But as of now, I'm still not sure what's going to go down.
 

 
AFAIK if the CD player has digital out you can run an optical or coaxle from that to a standalone DAC which will then plug into the amp via components or balanced XLR should you go that route. On occasion I plug my Zero DAC/amp into my home theater system via toslink and it works just fine. Most of the time my DAC is connected to my PC via toslink from the soundcard, this should be identical to that of a CD player.
 
I was thinking about the phones you've heard and you're right if there underpowered, (in the case of the DT880 the mids disappear, the highs become shrill and the bass looses impact) then revisiting a phone might be more of a challenge. What you will be able to do if you keep your CD player is compare and review the differences, should be a good read to compare a system as opposed to a single headphone. I'd be confident to suggest my build of a DT880/600 and OTL amp; Darkvoice 336 being the cheapest I know of that can make use of some truly great tubes like the Kenrad VT231 and Tung-sol 5998, which is a mandatory $70-ish upgrade over stock. The DL III can be found around $500 used, W4S DAC $700 used and the new $350 Bifrost DAC is discrete but I know nothing about it's SQ.
 
Took a peek at your profile, you have a HE-300 on the way? Should be very promising from the reviews I've seen.

 

 

[AudioRook]

Quote:

You say that (verbatim) "making do with an MP3 player and MP3s is like giving up." On what? The pursuit of high fidelity? 
Let's look at it another way. 
I played the violin for 13 years. Yes, 13 years. I started when I was 5 years old (my mother used to be a professional violinist). However, I never took the violin seriously until my mom took me to an orchestral performance when I was 12. The atmosphere... It captivated - no, it consumed me. That experience was like no other. The percussion, double bass, trombones, and tubas bellowed across the concert hall and stripped me naked of thought; the cellos and violas sang so beautifully, even Sirens were brought to shame; the flutes and clarinets lulled their audience with euphony so soothing, no man could resist their gentle urges; the violins overwhelmed their audience with such glorious vivacity that I felt my eardrums kneel in praise.
Afterwards, I wanted to do nothing but to follow in my mom's footsteps. 5 years later, I was the assistant concertmaster in a college orchestra even though I was still in high school. Many recruiters personally approached me with talks of scholarships and (obviously) recruitment. I rejected all of their offers, and I left the orchestra after I entered my senior year. Did I "give up" on the violin? After pursuing the experience that became the bedrock of my next 5 years, I finally attained contentment. I did not give up on the violin; I did not give up on that pursuit; I still get to hear my twin brother play the violin (his musicality is subpar to none, but he can be lazy); I still attend as many orchestral performances as I can; I'm still just as enthralled by the atmosphere of a concert hall. I've come to understand and fully enjoy the experience, even when I am not the one on the stage.
 
Do you understand now? I gave up nothing. I gained everything. Many of us will reach a similar resolution. You think we're "giving up," but it simply isn't so. All journeys come to an end, and we will not always arrive at the same end. Katun has reached his "destination," an area (or price bracket in this case) which he finds most suitable for him (well, maybe), and you cannot tell him, or anyone else, where our ends lie. Decide your own end, not others'. 
 
If you want to continue this, I'll be happy to do so via PM. Let's not clutter this thread with tangential discussion.
edit: grammar
 

Schooled him. Awesome post.
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Schooled him. Awesome post.

Driftless banter hardly qualifies as schooling anybody. I choose not to respond because it's nonsensical, not only is it not relevant it's open to gross misinterpretation. Read the thread, catch up, post something beneficial. 

 

[AudioRook]

 
Quote:

Driftless banter hardly qualifies as schooling anybody. I choose not to respond because it's nonsensical, not only is it not relevant it's open to gross misinterpretation. Read the thread, catch up, post something beneficial. 

Yeah, it made perfect sense and had a very focused aim. Not driftless or nonsensical. But you can keep telling yourself that. 
And how is it "not relevant"? You were the one demanding an answer. Now you're saying he's being irrelevant b/c he answered? Who's posting nonsensical banter again? Whatever. You're obviously not going to change your mind.
You know, now that I'm really thinking about it, the whole "it's open to gross misinterpretation" standpoint is silly. Lots of things are open to misinterpretation. In fact, just about everything is. Pretty pointless to use that as a reason to not reply. 

 

[Graphicism]

So in your opinion Nom de Plume giving up the voilin is related to my telling Katun his CD player isn't up to snuff?

 

[AudioRook]

Quote:

So in your opinion Nom de Plume giving up the voilin is related to my telling Katun his CD player isn't up to snuff?

That's a strange and silly question you're asking.
What was Nom replying to? Your idea that settling for mp3s and an mp3 player is like giving up. I think his/her story's related to that. You're the one who demanded he/she explain what he meant when he said your idea "hardly applies to many people". He/she did that. What is this about Katun's CD player? That was a totally different discussion you had with a totally different person.
This is the last time I'm replying. We're going nowhere with this.  
 

 

[Graphicism]

If you follow the thread you'll see I was saying you're (Katun's) okay with MP3s because said source wasn't producing the magic, not because some people just settle with okay sound quality. We're audio enthusiasts and if I can help spark some additional interest and share some related advice I will. If some hobgoblin (Nom de Plume) wants to chime in saying it's okay to quite because I've done it myself, then they will feel the back of my virtual hand.

 

[Nom de Plume]

This hobgoblin wants to point out that you've
1. neglected to explain how (again, verbatim) "making do with an MP3 player and MP3s" is synonymous with giving up
2. neglected to explain how my post was nonsensical or aimless (you've berated my posts many times, yet you never explain your criticisms)
3. gravely misunderstood my post if you think I was trying to say it's okay to give up
4. made yet another groundless assumption if you think I've reached the end of my pursuit for high fidelity - or, as you like to put it, "given up" - since I'm currently selling all of my gear to upgrade.
I don't know what else to say. You skew everything I say and ignore what I mean. I, just like you, am an audio enthusiast, and I want "the magic," but I'm also involved in other things, so I know I'm not going to climb to the highest tier of headphones; I don't have that kind of disposable income, so I'll make the best with what I have and improve/upgrade what I can (that includes my MP3s and DAP). Who knows, maybe my source won't be quite as magical as yours even after I reach the end of this pursuit. If you call that giving up, I can't stop you.
P.S. I appreciate the name-calling.
 
Quote:

If you follow the thread you'll see I was saying you're (Katun's) okay with MP3s because said source wasn't producing the magic, not because some people just settle with okay sound quality. We're audio enthusiasts and if I can help spark some additional interest and share some related advice I will. If some hobgoblin (Nom de Plume) wants to chime in saying it's okay to quite because I've done it myself, then they will feel the back of my virtual hand.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

 
Took a peek at your profile, you have a HE-300 on the way? Should be very promising from the reviews I've seen.

Well, unfortunately not yet. I would have ordered those the second they came out, but I'm waiting for them to put the leather (or whatever newer pads they have) pads out for sale. I'm not quite sure if they are going to throw those in with the HE-300, make them the stock earpads, or just have it be an option to buy on their site. Either way, I kinda want to save on shipping, so I'm eagerly waiting for them to come out so I can order.
 
Hopefully I can just use them straight off the P650, as I've heard they really don't need much. Volume wise, I should be perfectly fine. This CD player provides pretty amazing amounts of power, so that won't be an issue. SQ wise, I don't have all that much to work with (system or the HE-500) so i think I'll be good with just what I have at the moment. But dang, I do want to try the DT880 again one day. Too bad it doesn't the comfort as the DT990, or I'd be buying it again in a split second.