[Gwarmi]

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G'Day Grado Gwarmi !
 
Why no Aussie Jarah wood in the PS500?................... http://gradoheadphones.ca/comparative_chart.htm
 
wonder what the HF-2 wood is? Mahogany?

Mahogany is nice! one of the most dense and hard surfaced types of wood on the planet!
 

 

[Gwarmi]

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Actually, my take on what Blackmore meant is that the PS500 is made by the same people who made the PS1000, and thus the build quality would be the same in all likelihood (ie. not very good). That's what I gather was meant by "quality control problems."
 
It's actually one of my biggest complaints about Grado. To say "it's got some nicks and dents and misaligned grills" for a pair of headphones that cost almost $2000 just seems ridiculous to me. And I'm pretty ridiculous when it comes to what I'm willing to pay for some of these things. What bugs me the most though is that Grado uses many of the exact same materials on their $1000+ headphones as they do their sub-$200 headphones. Same foam. Same plastic. Sam glue holding it together. The pictures that were published of their workshops only made me less confident of their quality control.
 
That said, I'll be trying a pair of the PS500s this weekend. I'm especially curious to hear how they couple with my various amps. I can tolerate minor quality control issues at their price point. I'm just not willing to abide their older sibling, the PS1000.

It's just a personal theory of mine but I reckon Johnny G was running dry on 'development and research' funds
as he approached the final stages of the PS1000 ~ he more or less had to get the first batch to market or possibly
face shutting down the line.
 
Such is the dilemma when you're a small maker ~ you don't have the budget sometimes to finish things as intended,
especially if for reason 'x' - the budget overblows.
 
Just my two cents.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

It's just a personal theory of mine but I reckon Johnny G was running dry on 'development and research' funds
as he approached the final stages of the PS1000 ~ he more or less had to get the first batch to market or possibly
face shutting down the line.
 
Such is the dilemma when you're a small maker ~ you don't have the budget sometimes to finish things as intended,
especially if for reason 'x' - the budget overblows.
 
Just my two cents.

True, small manufacturers face bigger challenges when it comes to maintaining high standards of quality. But on the other hand, being a smaller manufacturer means you can more directly control those standards.
 
Look at Audez'e: it's basically some guys operating out of garage (or they were when they started, at least) and they managed to make the LCD-2 to a much higher quality standard than any Grado I've ever held in my hands. And that's not me trying to be an Audez'e fangirl, just a general observation. There are plenty of other small manufacturers who make top quality products. Eddie Current / Moth comes to mind for amps.
 
Maybe the problem comes in when said small company overextends themselves? Grado sells many more units than Audez'e and Eddie Current do. I think the bigger some of the "small guys" get, the more likely they are to slip up and have problems. It could happen to anyone.
 
What I don't have the benefit of is a familiarity with Grado's earlier products. I wonder how well built their headphones were when they first started out making them?
 
Anyway... I don't want to derail the thread or anything.

 

[alphaphoenix]

Will anybody from the Seattle area that will be attending the meet in January plan on buying this.  I would really like to know first hand how it sounds and compare it to what I already own.

 

[Gwarmi]

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True, small manufacturers face bigger challenges when it comes to maintaining high standards of quality. But on the other hand, being a smaller manufacturer means you can more directly control those standards.
 
Look at Audez'e: it's basically some guys operating out of garage (or they were when they started, at least) and they managed to make the LCD-2 to a much higher quality standard than any Grado I've ever held in my hands. And that's not me trying to be an Audez'e fangirl, just a general observation. There are plenty of other small manufacturers who make top quality products. Eddie Current / Moth comes to mind for amps.
 
Maybe the problem comes in when said small company overextends themselves? Grado sells many more units than Audez'e and Eddie Current do. I think the bigger some of the "small guys" get, the more likely they are to slip up and have problems. It could happen to anyone.
 
What I don't have the benefit of is a familiarity with Grado's earlier products. I wonder how well built their headphones were when they first started out making them?
 
Anyway... I don't want to derail the thread or anything.

Let's just leave it with a picture from the vintage days since it's worth a 1,000 words 

 

 

[MuppetFace]

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Let's just leave it with a picture from the vintage days since it's worth a 1,000 words 

 

 
I certainly wouldn't mind owning some HP1000s or PS1s someday.

Ironic you should say "worth a 1000 words," since the text on the ear cups would always notoriously rub off of these. 

 
 
 

 

[Grado77]

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[Grado77]

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[oldshoe99]

I can't disagree that for the high end stuff, a little more should be expected. I can't say I am 100% thrilled with the PS500 aesthetics vs. price, a little less plastic and more metal is always welcome. However, I can say I am 110% thrilled with the sound. They're also surprisingly much more comfortable than the 225i, the weight balance is much better.
 
I honestly don't see anything wrong with the build quality, there are no nicks or dents, unlike the previous plastic Grado's I've had. The metal work appears good and not a fingerprint magnet. The hand written numbers on the drivers are a nice touch. The PS500 appears as flawless as they can be aesthetically speaking. Audio seems dead on balanced. They really seem brilliant in their simplicity. Sure we all want lower prices and that's about the only thing that is painful, but that quickly gets forgotten.

I don't know what other people are expecting, but handmade products don't always get the consistency of machine-made products. Some handmade products may be extremely reliable and sturdy, but there are plenty of examples of premium and prestigious and very expensive products that have problems. Check out the Leica X1 camera and the peeling skins, to name one bad feature. My Rolex watch (new, genuine) broke down 3 times in 8 years. My $8000 UBoat limited edition is in the shop after 5 months because the leather band disintegrated. I've had as many as 8 consecutive premium HP calculators bite the dust within a month or two of purchase. I don't think I've had any Sony handheld electronic items make it through the warranty period, and my Vaio failed twice in that time. I can't say the PS-500 looks like $600, but it sounds like $600, so I'm going to take really good care of it.

 

[oldshoe99]

What I don't have the benefit of is a familiarity with Grado's earlier products. I wonder how well built their headphones were when they first started out making them?

All I know of are the 325 model I bought in 1999. They were perfectly made from what I remember, and I wasn't even aware at the time that they were hand-made. They worked every day for the couple of years I used them, and still looked like new when I gave them to someone else.

 

[Grado77]

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[MuppetFace]

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I don't know what other people are expecting, but handmade products don't always get the consistency of machine-made products. Some handmade products may be extremely reliable and sturdy, but there are plenty of examples of premium and prestigious and very expensive products that have problems. Check out the Leica X1 camera and the peeling skins, to name one bad feature. My Rolex watch (new, genuine) broke down 3 times in 8 years. My $8000 UBoat limited edition is in the shop after 5 months because the leather band disintegrated. I've had as many as 8 consecutive premium HP calculators bite the dust within a month or two of purchase. I don't think I've had any Sony handheld electronic items make it through the warranty period, and my Vaio failed twice in that time. I can't say the PS-500 looks like $600, but it sounds like $600, so I'm going to take really good care of it.

 
I honestly can't speak to the quality of the PS500, as I haven't tried it out yet. My original posts were concerning the PS1000 specifically.
 
You are absolutely correct in asserting that handmade products vary in consistency. Minor dents, dings, hinges that don't line up, inconsistencies in this or that... those are to be expected. I would argue however that using GLUE to hold together something that costs almost two grand goes well beyond "varying in consistency" and straight into absurdity.
 
That's why I feel the PS500 makes more sense. I agree that sound is the most important factor in a pair of headphones, and I could see myself more readily agreeing with you that they'd "sound like a pair of 600 headphones." I could see myself liking them enough to overlook such things. Build quality, while important, is more forgivable in their case. With the PS1000 however, Grado quite frankly comes across as a touch insane when compared to their competition.
 
Edit: And hopefully I can post some impressions of the PS500 by the end of the weekend, so I'm more on topic. 

 

[Gwarmi]

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PS1000 however, Grado quite frankly comes across as a touch insane when compared to their competition.
 
Edit: And hopefully I can post some impressions of the PS500 by the end of the weekend, so I'm more on topic. 

Wish I'd taken photos ~ have you ever seen an 18 month Ultrasone Edition 8 before?
 
Namely, take a look down where the hinges meet the centre of the cups, there you will find two rubber grommet stoppers
worth oh I dunno, 30 cents. They wear out and then the pricey hinges make contact with the ruthenium casing.
 
Squeaking develops but wait it gets better ~ the ruthenium scrapes off leaving a rusty looking metal finish.
 
Not a proud moment for Ultrasone and their $2000 demands. They're currently offering warranty before the rubbers wear
out.
 
Ever seen what happens to an early HD800 when it is left on a laptop or bench surface? Chips, lots of them, yet
another shortfall from a $1500 headphone.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Wish I'd taken photos ~ have you ever seen an 18 month Ultrasone Edition 8 before?
 
Namely, take a look down where the hinges meet the centre of the cups, there you will find two rubber grommet stoppers
worth oh I dunno, 30 cents. They wear out and then the pricey hinges make contact with the ruthenium casing.
 
Squeaking develops but wait it gets better ~ the ruthenium scrapes off leaving a rusty looking metal finish.
 
Not a proud moment for Ultrasone and their $2000 demands. They're currently offering warranty before the rubbers wear
out.
 
Ever seen what happens to an early HD800 when it is left on a laptop or bench surface? Chips, lots of them, yet
another shortfall from a $1500 headphone.

I've owned two different Edition 8s. The first was sold so I could justify (to myself) purchasing the limited version. I've had the latter for a year now, and haven't experienced any problems. Same with my HD800. Both headphones feel solid when I hold them. The PS1000 felt like they were going to break if I wasn't careful. Even many of the positive reviews for the PS1000 lament the fact that the materials used to make it are overwhelmingly cheap feeling. I've never seen another flagship headphone that used foam for their earpads. You may not think that's nuts, but I do.
 
I'm not saying problems with these other products don't exist. Everything has its fair share of issues. There is, to me, a limit to what is acceptable however. To me that limit is crossed when we're talking about using glue to hold your product together. Or using the same foam parts your 100 dollar units use. Again, that's just my own set of standards based on my own experience.
 
I really don't want to continue with this exchange, because it's not going to get us anywhere. We seem to both agree that most products--even expensive ones--have their share of issues. As for the extent of those issues and what is acceptable, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Gwarmi]

 
Only flagship that I've never, ever heard of having a single issue ~ Beyer T1 ~ someone might have a story but I'm
yet to hear anything, it's construction is flawless.
 
LCD-2? Nope I've seen two suffer from cracked wooden cups.