[Mortalcoil]

You have to give the man (Zanth) credit he knows his stuff.  He covers every detail and his formula for expressing his thoughts is spot on.
 
Not to mention the fact he is highly respected here at Head - Fi as well as many other Hi - Fi publications. 
 
An asset to all who take the time to read and learn from his super informative posts / reviews ....etc.

 

[BlackstoneJD]

Speakers dominate, there is no question. The problem is, who really has a proper  room for speakers, and the soundproofing required to really enjoy them without terrifying the neighbors/pets/loved ones. Not me. So I'm going with headphones. My speakers blow my phones out of the water but I just can't use them. I need the privacy of headphones.

 

[BlackstoneJD]

--double post--

 

[BlackstoneJD]

Quote:

I find Grado headphones are not much different here. Back in 1997, Good Cans and Headroom were corrent in identifying the SR60s as the best bargain in all of high-end at the time. In fact, they may well still be able to make such a claim, at least with headphones. They were also correct in acknowledging that the SR60s get 80% of the way to the RS-1s. I'd extend that to the PS-1s, PS500s, PS-1000s, GS-1000s and the Alessandros too. In fact, this isn't unique with Grado.
 

 
My first pair of headphones were a pair of SR60s I think. My dad got them for as a surprise holiday present. That would have been the early or mid 1990s? That was an awesome x-mas. 

 

[devouringone3]

Quote:

I just can't read all that lol

 
It's not that long compared to any serious headphone/gear review on here . It's just that we've got accustomed to substance-less retroactive/conversation-entertaining short posts and/or joke reels.
 
 
I also believe in Grado magic... in that there is a lot of good to be heard in that specifically designed and ear-tuned, roller-coaster-like mysterious frequency response. It does so many wonders to all the music I listen to. (and I'm not listening to my Joe Grado headphones right now, I'm in my new room for university and I only brought my John Grados)

 

[priest]

Quote:

I don't feel the GS1000 have the bigger soundstage either. Is that really the general consensus?

 
I'm not sure if it's a consensus, but I have seen a few people state lately that this is how they hear it.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Quote:

I don't feel the GS1000 have the bigger soundstage either. Is that really the general consensus?

 
I'm not sure if it's a consensus, but I have seen a few people state lately that this is how they hear it.

 
If the midrange sounds receded the audible cues from the treble range and the rather omnidirectional sounding bass frequencies will dominate and the result will be a larger soundstage.  What is really happening is not a larger soundstage but a larger sounding headstage.  Headstage being the immediate 3 dimension sound taken up by the majority of the performers.  Soundstage being the maximum distance notes trail off to.  IEMs can often have an audibly large soundstage but the headstage is often tiny and mapped to the forehead.  Closed headphones often offer a larger headstage but their soundstage is cut off because of the interaction with the enclosures.  This leaves open headphones and ultimately the K1000 ear speaker: largest of soundstages and usually larger headstages as well depending on the distance of the driver to the ear.  When the outer ear is properly engaged, the headstage is usually enlarged immediately.  It is a reason that going from flats to bowls to the largest pads immediately changes the shape and size of the headstage, yet the soundstage may not be affected to the same extent.  One documented attribute of the HD800s is that they throw a large headstage, so large in fact that it dominates when a track or entire album should not sound so expansive.  When the sound is called for, HD800s are difficult to best in this regard.  A trick the R10s play is angling the drivers in order to balance their rather closed construction.  Jan Meier demonstrates various ear positions for headphones which dramatically change the sound: particularly the size of the headstage and often the soundstage too.
 
Play with the GS-1000s and various pad sizes and if possible compare with the PS-1000s by doing the same.  The soundstages should be comparable given the same type of cushions and the headstages will adjust as the outer ear plays a more significant role.  Many complained that the GS-1000s had a sucked out midrange.  The PS-1000s were tweaked to avoid this.  Tyll goes into great detail regarding low level listening and the GS-1000s.  As the mean db is lowered, the ear's ability to respond to highs and lows decreases.  Thus, the midrange plays a more prominent role in the resulting sound.  If there is a mid-range limited sound at louder volumes, it is reduced or eliminated at lower volumes.  At lower volumes, the headstage would shrink while the soundstage should stay the same until a minimally required threshold was passed. 

 

[shimmer n roar]

most informative thanks zanth.

 

[lovleylady]

Quote:

 
I just can't read all that lol

I suppose this is typical of the "iPhone-generation", everything should be at a "point and klick"-level of difficulty
 
Quote:

most informative thanks zanth.

This thread turned out great!
However it seems that it has went away a bit from the original post.
 
 
Cheers!

 

[shimmer n roar]

forum threads have a habit of doing that.

 

[Parula]

I own 7 pairs of headphones and I must say, my PS-1000's are my go to favorite. I also own Sens HD-800. I love them as well but they have a totally different sound. The PS-1000's are more "in your face" and great for rock music. These are the only Grado's I own so I can't compare with other models.

 

[Parula]

Quote:

Speakers dominate, there is no question. The problem is, who really has a proper  room for speakers, and the soundproofing required to really enjoy them without terrifying the neighbors/pets/loved ones. Not me. So I'm going with headphones. My speakers blow my phones out of the water but I just can't use them. I need the privacy of headphones.

I have the same problem Blackstone. I have a really nice home theater set-up but I can't play it too loud without generating complaints. I've had the police at my home on 3 occasions in the past 2 years. I close all my windows and doors and I even purchased sound/light dampening window shades. These help a lot. I think a lot of the sound leaks through the windows. The problem is mostly with my subs. I now have them on isolation pads which helps control the sub frequencies that might otherwise shake my floor and walls. I do miss surround sound when listening to cans.

 

[spudpatrol]

 However, using them with crappy, compressed
 modern recordings that make any bonafide audio engineers weep and then wonder why they sound foul is pretty
 obvious and blatant in my mind.

 How can you have both presentations in the one headphone? Resolving, surgically precise on reference
 recordings and then forgiving, sub-dued, not too analytical with most recordings from the last 15 years because
 they stink in the first place. It does not add up in my head.

 Trance and Electronica? Wrong headphone - they are woeful with any modern electronic production - glassy, brittle, full
 of the resonances and pingy-ness that you mention. On that front I agree with you 100% - you need a complimentary
 headphone on that front if you listen to a fairly wide berth of genres - eg, my pick would be a Senn HD650 with a rip snorting
 cable upgrade.
[/quote]

It is embarrassing to have such an uneducated opinion coming up on google when you search up trance and grado ps1000. Judging by your profile you are a novice knowledge wise on electronic music, you don't even listen to it in the first place. How someone whom doesn't even listen to a genre thinks that they can speak as an authority on it when it comes to a headphone is beyond me. There is a lot of very high fidelity electronic albums, particularly trance itself. Having personally listened to psy trance, ambient electronic and others has led me to albums that far surpass most rock records in complexity and layering. Not at all something like the stereotyped rubbish you spout.

Don't act like an authority when you have no clue chump.

 

[sejsel]

Hi,

Were you directing the comment at me? I am not inexperienced with amps at all. I've heard maybe 30 or more different amps so I have a good idea on what I am talking about.

Grado's never "transform" when the proper power is applied as they do not scale that well nor are they hard to power. I have never heard a headphone transform or sound radically different when given the proper power. They do improve but it's not like going from cheap $20 wine to expensive $200 a bottle wine. They will always have a small soundstage, bright highs, and shallow bass. That is their nature and an amp can not change that if they are voiced as so. They may improve but not much.

I do disagree with your view on the X-CANV8P as it matches with the HD600 nicely IMO. It does do far better with Grado's, Denon's, Audio-Technica's for sure though. I found that it mellows out Grado's a bit and fill in the mids.

Quote:

My personal experience with Grado GS1000 tells - and does so very vividly - exactly the opposite. The crap that sound like crappy transistor radio of the ordinary sources found today gets transformed into the $200 +++++ bottle of wine when coupled with the - for example - Quad Pa One tube amp. The difference is just night and day, and that is a groce understatement.

What exactly these require (high current) in order to get their full potential out of them - I would really like to hear that, and if Doug Savitsk (ECP) is still present and HeadFi, he might be the right person to answer this in detail.