[Bigrock2150]

If Headphone companies expected everyone to buy and not return they'd have more places to audition them. I think they kind of expect people to buy and return. Headphones are tricky when they aren't heavily advertised like the Beats by Dre. If a company like Sennheiser or AT bagged themselves a famous artist or a celeb they could sell to a much larger group of people. I dunno if AT is advertised in Japan but i've never even heard of companies in America like Grado before earlier this year. It felt like finding a dollar on the ground. 

 

[shane55]

Hmm... simultaneous thread.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/476335/what-does-amazon-do-with-it-s-returned-gear

 

[David.M]

Quote:

Hmm... simultaneous thread.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/476335/what-does-amazon-do-with-it-s-returned-gear

ya....the derailment of this thread + the one you link should be merged.
 
QUICK !    someone get Jude !

 

[boclcown]

Quote:

UE, they didn't seem to grasp the ethics involved, I wasn't about to give course in business accounting. Some people just don't get it. I just hope other newbies who read this thread will see the practice for what it really is. Unethical.

Please do give me a course in business accounting. I work in business, and I'm interested to hear your expertise in the field.
 
Do you go to the mall and criticize all the customers that go to clothing stores? Clothing stores get huge volumes of returns. None of us feel guilty returning clothes that don't fit, or that we decide we don't like, because it is an accepted part of the clothing retail business. Clothing companies anticipated that customers want to have the ability to return their clothes, and so implement return policies to entice customers to purchase their products. This is also the case with Amazon. Any accountant will testify that if a certain policy yields losses, it will be evaluated and adjusted to try to counter those losses. Return policies exist because they are a necessary part of doing business.
 
I find this to be especially funny to be discussing retail company profits in a product category with HUGE profit margins. High-end headphones do not cost nearly as much to manufacture as they cost. All of the headphones I listed have been around for a while, and those companies do not have any kind of serious R&D to justify the staggering prices. More than most other industries, retailers make a good amount of profit from the sale of an item like a high-end headphone. 
 
You haven't given us any logical support for your argument that the practice is unethical. You are supposing that the practice is costing the company money, and extending that assumption to make a conclusion about the morality of the practice. If it doesn't cost the company money your argument is worthless, no matter how much you haughtily appeal to your high post count and call others newbies. We are saying that it DOESN'T cost Amazon money when I do what I plan to rather than opt not to purchase anything at all, which I have clearly stated would be the result of my not taking advantage of the return policy. You haven't addressed this, and despite declining to address any of my responses, continue to complain and belittle myself and other members. I'm not mad that you're arguing, I'm mad that you are arguing for the sake of it, with no real substance to your objections. 

 

[joelpearce]

Quote:

If Headphone companies expected everyone to buy and not return they'd have more places to audition them. I think they kind of expect people to buy and return. Headphones are tricky when they aren't heavily advertised like the Beats by Dre. If a company like Sennheiser or AT bagged themselves a famous artist or a celeb they could sell to a much larger group of people. I dunno if AT is advertised in Japan but i've never even heard of companies in America like Grado before earlier this year. It felt like finding a dollar on the ground. 

I don't especially want to wade in on this whole discussion, but I think online retailers and their generous return policies might be the REASON we don't have more places to audition high-end equipment.  We have one local store that demos headphones (in a nice, comfortable separate room), but the prices are significantly higher than online retailers.  They only have a couple brands, but I suspect brick and mortar stores have a very hard time staying open when they are fighting Amazon.
 
This doesn't have much to do with the ethics debate, but I'm sure lots of people would LOVE to open a store that had headphones on display for listening--it's just not financially viable.  Hell, I'd love to own that store...

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

ya....the derailment of this thread + the one you link should be merged.
 
QUICK !    someone get Jude !

Op is discussing it as well so it doesn't really count as derailment.
 
For brick and mortar vs online...
 
They have different types of expenses.  Amazon doesn't have to pay to rent a store, pay people to staff it, heat it, cool it, etc.  They have employees in corporate offices and what not, but so do large brick and mortar chains like best buy.  Best buy has to put up a decent website too.  One area where internet retailers do have higher costs is returned merchandise.  No matter how much research you do, you are still essentially buying blind when you buy something online.  Even after going to canjam I bought 2 pairs of 'phones and returned them, because they seemed great when I listened to them for 20-30 minutes, but not when I listened to them for several hours.  Even with the higher return costs, amazon is able to offer lower prices.  They've already accounted for those costs.  They expect a certain percentage of merchandise in each category to be returned.  It's still possible to abuse this kind of policy like I outlined in a previous post, but buying 2 things from the same retailer to compare and returning one of them is expected.  AFIK no one complains when someone does it with clothing, so why complain if someone does it with headphones?

 

[boclcown]

Quote:

 
AFIK no one complains when someone does it with clothing, so why complain if someone does it with headphones?

 

[shane55]

[size=10pt]Ok, ok, ok... here's what you do:[/size]
[size=10pt]Log on to Amazon. Buy the DT880/600 and the HD650... with the earnest intent of keeping both. And besides… you’ll probably want to keep both! Then, if down the road you decide not to keep one of them, sell it on this forum. If it’s within the ‘return policy’ window, return it.[/size]
 
[size=10pt]

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