Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Dec 20, 2022 at 9:22 AM Post #49,472 of 62,400
Wait are you saying I get LHDC from the Fiio app?

Wow if that so I will test on my UTWS5 and see what happens!

I was starting to line up some TWS to sell to get the FW5 and that will hasten the process!

OK, so I installed the Fiio app and turned on HWA, is that all I need to do? If so I will compare some of my hires flac songs from Neutron player and then the Fiio player and report back my findings. All from the UTWS5/FH5 combo
I still have my Monarch Mk2 hooked up to my UTWS5. I haven’t used the UTWS3 in ages
 
Dec 20, 2022 at 2:08 PM Post #49,474 of 62,400
This is my first post on this forum, so bear with me! I've been following this particular thread for the past few months to keep up-to-date on the latest TWS. I've switched over to them from wireless headphones for on-the-go use since 2018 since they're just so much convenient to put in a pocket and not have to rely on a backpack when going out anywhere. Plus, for a few years now I've felt they've been almost on-par with wireless headphones for a few years now anyways.

I've been interested in the ATH-TWX9's as a potentially cheap(er) alternative to the Beoplay EX's, since spending any more $300 on something I could lose at any moment is just too much for me. I was hoping some people would go into further depth about how they sound in comparison, especially in tonality, but at this point it was just easier to buy them myself.

Since sound is relative and I'm new here, I'll give a series of mini-thoughts on all the various TWS earbuds I've tried over the years before I can explain the TWX9's in a separate post. For some added context, I'm the type that appreciates a headphone's/IEM's/earbud's stock performance, so I prioritize out-of-the-box tonality over most qualities. I avoid EQ wherever I can. This is particularly the case wireless tech, since even there, you might not have the luxury of EQing without the assistance of an app for certain devices. Also, I tend to prioritize sound quality over features of utility like ANC. A better sounding TWS is more important to me than one with amazing ANC or transparency mode. A disclaimer, the only one of these I still own is the MW08, so the rest I have to rely purely on memory. So, take these thoughts with a grain of salt:

Jabra Elite 65t: My first ever true wireless earbuds. In hindsight about as "okay" or average of a wireless earbud as you can get. I'm sure if you bought these now for launch price they'd be highly overpriced. They never wow'd or impressed me, and what I'd describe as mid-forward. It's ability to resolve and its sound signature reminded me of what cheaper sub-$50 headphone sounded like at the time, that is to say no ability to resolve whatsoever. They were decent for watching videos and making calls and that's about it. Eventually I had lost the right earbud, which at the time TWS earbuds used a master-slave system, so I was SOL.

Jabra Elite 75t: The successor to the Jabra Elite 65t, and I've never hated anything audio-related faster than I did with this. The bass was so insanely forward it put the Fidelo X2HR to shame, and that headphone's bass annoyed me to no end. I even resorted to using EQ in the dedicated app by pushing the bass as far down as I could, and still it somehow was overpowering and fatiguing. I'm sure bassheads would love this, but not for me. I remember the other sound qualities and technicalities being better than the 65t, if the bass wasn't so distracting. I ended up replacing them within a couple days thinking they were broken, but that wasn't the case, and ended up returning those. Some positives were its battery life at the time, and the case was shockingly small. Probably the smallest I've ever seen in a TWS I've owned.

Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (MTW) 1: Now this was orders of magnitude better in terms of sound quality. I'd describe it as silky smooth and so comfortingly warm without being too much. Every kind of music was relaxing, and it best shined with anything orchestral or acoustic and vocal. Since it's been so long, I can't safely comment on its ability to resolve or how big/small the soundstaging it was. It's a shame, though. The battery life was borderline unusable for me at less than 3 hours, and even then it had the infamous battery drain problem. I could have made done with those for that sound quality, but the fit was the worst part. It felt like shoving Frankenstein plugs in my ears as it overly stretched my outer ear. I couldn't stand to wear them for more than 20-30 minutes at a time. The case was bulky, too, and was the outside was coated in fabric. It didn't take much to feel "gross in the hand" as I'd put it. These ones I likely ended up returning due to the fit being unusable.

Sony WF-1000XM3: A much better fit and battery life than the Sennheiser, but I really missed the MTW's sound by comparison. Like all of the Sony's ANC wireless headphones and earbuds I've tried, it's greatest strength was ANC. The bass was punchy and forward, but not exactly clean or articulate either. It sure was "fun", but I don't remember anything particularly notable or standing out about the sound. I remember my thoughts being that it felt more like a utility than something that made music. These I had for a but before I ended up losing them, case and all, on the bus.

Master & Dynamic MW07 Go: I was really surprised with these. I didn't know what to expect, but when looking at ones I could buy at Best Buy at the time, I appreciated them being sub-$200 compared to competitors at the time. No ANC, but turned out I didn't need them since they were very effective at passive noise cancelling. My biggest take away was just how utterly, almost perfectly neutral they sounded to me, maybe leaning slightly in warmth. No matter what kind of music it was, it came off as "what the artist intended" to me. The battery life was amazing, too, and the case was decently small enough. The case's material was a bit meh. Much like the Sennheiser, the fabric doesn't take long to feel gross in the hand. Its biggest flaw was probably the wing-tip fit, where after a while it feels like it's digging in your ears. Unfortunately these were also a master-slave system which is one thing that separated them from the more expensive MW07 Plus, and luck would have it that I lost the right earbud, making them unusable.

Master & Dyanmic MW08: To be honest, I wasn't expecting there could be a massive upgrade sonically from the MW07 Go's. At first I thought the bass was approaching on annoyingly forward relative to the MW07 Go, but I warmed up to it over time. With ANC, it pushed the bass past that threshold of being too forward for me, but the ANC wasn't really ever that effective anyways. Besides the MTW's, this was the first time I could describe earbuds as having soundstage of some sort. Not something that reaches open-back headphones mind you, but still there. The imaging was also surprisingly good. I find I really appreciate M&D's earbud tonality based on their track record so far. Leaning on warm, pleasant, relaxed, but still with a punch-y and fun enough bass. Definitely more fun than the MW07 Go, though not as extended or as clean as what the MTW did. I would describe them as U-shaped with that in mind, though not super exaggerated. I still have these, and I think they're best when using with acoustic guitar, spoken word (i.e., Youtube, podcasts), movies, and shows/anime. They're still the best I've heard for movies and shows in particular, because they have this sort of magical quality that makes people speech articulate and forward more than any other TWS I've tried so far.

Both the MW07 Go and MW08 use physical buttons to control everything, and IMO this is the way to go. Right button will play/pause (1 tap), skip forward (2 taps), skip back (3 taps), and voice assistant (hold), whereas the left button has a volume rocker, where holding the front / volume + button triggers ambient listening, and back / volume - button triggers ANC. The volume rocker was useless for me, since the # of volume steps were less than the phone's volume steps, enough so that I just used the phone's volume rocker to get a more optimized volume. Unfortunately both the ANC and ambient listening modes weren't strong enough to really ever be usable, though fortunately (or unfortunately depending who you are), the passive noise isolation wasn't good enough to where I could hear most people with the music paused. Another relatively major flaw with these, and the MW07 Go alike, are issues with the bluetooth stability. These seem to be especially susceptible to bluetooth interference, where there'll be areas outside that make the MW08's drop connection either from each other with hitching, or outright disconnect from your phone and reconnect. It was infrequent enough that I learned to live with it, and learned what areas around my town that made them patchy.

The case is also super nice in feel, though at the cost of not being able to wirelessly charge them. I find fit leans on a spectrum ranging from "comfy" to "secure", and these definitely lean toward comfy. They stick out more and always feel like they're on the verge of falling out. I constantly have to re-adjust them, so I wouldn't feel comfortable exercising in them. The best quality of these is both it's battery life and charging speed. The battery could easily last more than 8 hours, and the case charges to full in less than 45 minutes. It's also one of the best shapes I've felt in a case, in terms of pocketability due to its uniform flat width. After a year-in-a-half, the screens protecting the driver and mic fell off, but in fairness I think this must be my fault. Months prior, I attempted at cleaning them with 90% isopropyl alcohol since I was afraid any water near it would be too risky, but this must have eaten away at the glue holding the screens on. Let that be a lessen for anyone wanting to clean their wireless earbuds to not use alcohol.

Master & Dynamic MW07 Go (again): With the MW08's screens gone, I didn't feel comfortable with using them extensively, especially exposed to the elements like rain; I had no guarantee how water-resistant they were anymore, or how fragile the driver was. I didn't want to spend hundreds on new earbuds, so I ended up going back to the MW07 Go feeling nostalgic for them, and finding them brand new for $100 on eBay. Needless to say I ended up being rather disappointed by them in comparison, where their ability to resolve wasn't really as good as I had remembered. For the price on a budget and if you don't care for ANC, I would still highly recommend them.

Sennheiser MTW 3: After being disappointed with returning to the MW07 Go, I decided to just bite the bullet. I ended up getting these with a student discount for $175, which at that price is a steal. Even their current sale price of $200 is an extremely good value. In some respects it reminded me of the MTW 1, but surprisingly not as magical in technicality like soundstage or imaging. Definitely would describe as overall "warm" without being punch-y. In technicalities, these definitely blow the MW08 out of the water. Not as balanced sounding as Master & Dynamic's lineup, but something that's really good to relax to. At first the fit seemed terrible, where they never wanted to hook on. You have to roll them in and they to "hook" to your ear for a secure fit. Once you get the hang of it, it's one of the most secure fits I've ever felt. Leans more toward secure than comfy, but if you balance it right, the comfiness is good enough to last a few hours. Unfortunately, it's battery life was more mediocre in comparison to the MW08, though at least it could wirelessly charge. Similar fabric feel to the original MTW, that is to say not good. The app was also the first good TWS app I've used, where you had loads of customizability.

In terms of usability, I much prefer physical buttons over touch buttons. There's just so much room for error, and no matter what earbud it is, you'll want to occasionally adjust them to fix the fit. Annoyingly, because the touch surface of the earbuds are so large and sensitive, you'll find that whenever you try to take them out or adjust them, you'll accidentally trigger the tap. This is especially annoying with calls, because you can't change the call gestures. If you accidentally tap it while in a call, you'll hang up on the person. Even worse, if you happen to be in a Discord call, you'll "disconnect" but are still connected somehow, which will push the call to the phone speakers. You'll have to manually disconnect and reconnect to the Discord call every time this happens. On the plus side, one of the most surprising things about the MTW3 that I'm surprised people don't talk about more often is just how utterly good the ANC it is. I originally had the XF-1000MX3 and had a chance to listen to a friend's XF-1000MX4, and the MTW 3 is somewhere between the two. To be honest, the XF-1000MX4's ANC was somehow _too strong_ where it was almost nauseating how isolating it was, and I much preferred the way MTW3's ANC worked. Even more so, one thing I've found with ANC TWS earbuds of the past, I would purposely avoid using ANC when I could since I found the sound quality noticably drop when ANC turned on, and the sound signature would also change notably. For instance, both the XF-1000MX3 and MW08 would just get annoyingly bassier, which was annoying considering how I preferred their stock sound signatures. It's like some black magic to me, because the MTW3's sound signature doesn't change one bit; I don't even notice a drop in qualities like detail. I didn't even think that was possibly and always assumed ANC was an inherently flawed, and worse experience.

These were easily a keeper once you get a hang of the fit... that is until you run unto the atrocious build quality issues. After a few weeks, one morning you'll question if you're losing hearing in your right ear. The right earbud will be significantly less volume than the left earbud. Then, when you try to use ANC, there will be this constant, annoying feedback chirp. Apparently, it's something to do with the way the ANC interacts with the mesh of the eartip. I RMA'd these, since I definitely wanted them to work. You have to pay to send to them, and they pay back, which is reasonable. They sent replacements, which were working fine for a week. Then these new ones started the exact same issue again. There was a firmware update at the time, but it made no difference--if anything, it made it worse. Seeing as this issue likely wasn't going to be fixed any time soon, I ended up returning them to my disappointment.

Beyerdynamic Free Byrd: I've owned the original wired Soul Byrd for years now and am disappointed to see the lack of people giving them praise. For what they were worth to me and giving the right synergizing amp/source, they could really make bands like Muse and soundtracks like the Lord of the Rings sing while being able to sleep on my side with them. So I was excited for the Free Byrd, but to be honest I was a little disappointed with these. With the way people have talked about them being one of the best sounding TWS (and being a little bit of a Beyerdynamic fanboy), these fall flat in sound quality in comparison with the MTW3. At first I seemed the like them, but the more and more I used them the more I felt disappointed. I think the MTW3 is better at resolving and having a better stage while sound more balanced, which makes them more versatile to me. By comparison, the Free Byrd having this forward, bloaty bass that's not very nuanced or articulate, though the mids and treble are probably better if not on par. The Free Byrd's use Beyerdynamic's app, which also you to change the EQ based on some pre-defined presets. All of them sounded worse than the stock sound, but then the stock sound was just over the precipice of either being fatiguing in its bass, or you having to turn down the volume a notch to where everything else but the bass sounds too quiet.

Overall it's V-shaped, but is more exaggerated than the Soul Byrd, and not a fitting upgrade for my preferences. In terms of sound quality, the treble is the best I've heard in any TWS, at the cost of the mids being pushed a little too far back. I was really hoping for something more balanced, or hoping I could deal with the bass better. The imaging and soundstage were above average, somewhere in the same ballpark as the MTW3, which combined with the warm tonality, made listening to string-heavy music sound nice to me.

Besides the sound signature, these are actually a contender for top-tier TWS, especially at the current asking price of $225. If you can deal with the bass or if you lean toward basshead (in quantity), then these are an extremely overall good TWS in terms of usability. The fit is more secure than the MW08 but similar feeling, and is arguably more comfortable while being decently tightly sealed. Some people prefer the foam tips, but I'd rather deal with less perfect fit if it means more durability, but luckily these tips were just right in terms of seal and security. The battery life is also amazing, probably on par with the MW08. The case charging speed isn't anything stellar, probably slow, but that's more of a "nice to have" I'll admit. I wish the app allowed you to change the touch gestures just like with the MTW3, though the touch surface was much less sensitive than the MTW3 (almost to a fault), which made miss-taps pretty much non-existent. The ANC and ambient listening were a couple steps above the MW08 but nothing compared to the MTW3, that is to say beyond the point of actually being usable for once, or "not bad". Honestly, I really wanted to just keep them, because besides the bass, these were a great all-rounder TWS. However, I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the sound of the MTW3. Every time they sound amazing, but then there's some stupid, super critical flaw that makes them borderline broken or unusable. I reluctantly returned them, really wanting to make them work.

At this point, I was about ready to give up on TWS for this generation, and to just convert my Letshuoer S12 Pro's into TWS using the Fiio UTWS5, or just stick with them being wired exclusively. I really didn't want to spend $340+ on Beoplay EX's, especially at arguably the end point of this generation of TWS earbuds, and them seemingly having the same bluetooth problems that the MW08's had. Definitely not for that price. Even $300 for the ATH-TWX9 made my stomach churn, but I took a gamble and risked buying them from Amazon Japan. The risk is that there'll basically be no way to return them practically if something goes wrong or they're really mediocre or something. This post has probably gone on long enough, and I don't feel comfortable enough giving a fair assessment on anything audio-related unless I've had them for a week. They came in on Friday, but needless to say, from my experience so far I think these are a contender for the best overall TWS earbuds on the market. I've never heard the Beoplay EX's or the new Campfire Orbit's, but the overall experience, usability, fit, app, and battery life have been nothing short of TOTL for me so far. I'll have a more thorough post by this Friday.
Great post, and found so many things in common. I value sound quality over other features as well, and avoid EQ where I can. If you havent try the TWX9 yet, I would say compare to free byrd the TWX9 is brighter, clearer. But idk if this is will be a problem when listening to it for hours. But its just my feelings, I'm not a pro so its highly subjective. The battery life is significant less than free byrd tho, like half of it. But the app and all the functions are much better. It indicates which codec is in use. Has own volume adjust, custom EQ, multi connect and etc. I wouldnt bother to open the free byrd app when I'm using it but for TWX9, app is fun to use.
 
Dec 20, 2022 at 2:15 PM Post #49,475 of 62,400
Anyone heard the Noble Fokus ANC1? I have heard it is not quite as good as now out of stock Fokus Pro. But better than Falcon Pro. I am also considering the Fiio FW5 even though it is not really a noise free pair. Would love to hear about those from anyone.
 
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Dec 20, 2022 at 2:56 PM Post #49,476 of 62,400
Anyone heard the Noble Fokus ANC1? I have heard it is not quite as good as now out of stock Fokus Pro. But better than Falcon Pro. I am also considering the Fiio FW5 even though it is not really a noise free pair. Would love to hear about those from anyone.

There is a link to a review of the FW5 a few pages back, very positive. If you can wait 9 days I have mine on the way and can let you know my thoughts.
 
Dec 20, 2022 at 4:05 PM Post #49,477 of 62,400
There is a link to a review of the FW5 a few pages back, very positive. If you can wait 9 days I have mine on the way and can let you know my thoughts.
So far there is nothing special that blows me away, the BT range is a joke and I feel the battery life will not meet the claims but still time will tell and more so since they seem to encourage you set it to Max Charge of 85% in the App to prolong its life.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ates-to-chapter4.962807/page-10#post-17306129
 
Dec 20, 2022 at 5:34 PM Post #49,479 of 62,400
So far there is nothing special that blows me away, the BT range is a joke and I feel the battery life will not meet the claims but still time will tell and more so since they seem to encourage you set it to Max Charge of 85% in the App to prolong its life.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ates-to-chapter4.962807/page-10#post-17306129
Did you buy the FW5 or just going by what your reading on them? Fine either way just curious.

My UTWS5 has that same 85% setting in the app. It is a weird setting for sure. My biggest gripe about the UTWS5 is that the units start to grab the BT signal while in the case when they hit that 85% threshold. It's the worst aspect of the adapters, hopefully the FW5 has resolved that issue.

sound wise the UTWS5/FH5 combo is quite a bit ahead of any TWS I own for sound quality. My best TWS is maybe 75% of the quality. So if the FW5 has achieved that sound quality level or better then I will be pretty happy even if it's missing features like ANC and for the moment Ambient mode.

It certainly won't replace my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro for all round use. But it might become my deep listening TWS.

Having said all that I am seriously thinking of getting a Sony phone so I can get the best BT standards, 3.5mm Jack, and SD expansion. If I go that route I might end up going back to wired for pure music quality. But that's a $1100 away savings I need to do since no phone companies seem to offer Sony phones through their plans anymore, which means I am buying it outright. But it will be 6 months out before I have saved up the money for it.

Thinking I will go all in on the Xperia 1 iv since it's only $100 more the Xperia 5 iv through Swiftronics in Canada and that $100 difference in coat gives me 512GB of storage in the phone. Not a big fan of the shape of their phones but if all the rest works well I can live with the length.
 
Dec 20, 2022 at 5:35 PM Post #49,480 of 62,400
Dec 20, 2022 at 5:41 PM Post #49,481 of 62,400
Dec 20, 2022 at 5:50 PM Post #49,482 of 62,400
@ dweaver, I own them as of today.

IMO the best sounding TWS I have owned is the Sennheiser MOMENTUM True Wireless 3 (too many issues at launch and too small for me so moved about), my FiiO Neckband+FH5 is also very good but more natural so not so good for lower quality files, I kept my FH7's wired for Hi-Res playback.
 
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Dec 20, 2022 at 7:46 PM Post #49,485 of 62,400
Did you buy the FW5 or just going by what your reading on them? Fine either way just curious.

My UTWS5 has that same 85% setting in the app. It is a weird setting for sure. My biggest gripe about the UTWS5 is that the units start to grab the BT signal while in the case when they hit that 85% threshold. It's the worst aspect of the adapters, hopefully the FW5 has resolved that issue.

sound wise the UTWS5/FH5 combo is quite a bit ahead of any TWS I own for sound quality. My best TWS is maybe 75% of the quality. So if the FW5 has achieved that sound quality level or better then I will be pretty happy even if it's missing features like ANC and for the moment Ambient mode.

It certainly won't replace my Galaxy Buds 2 Pro for all round use. But it might become my deep listening TWS.

Having said all that I am seriously thinking of getting a Sony phone so I can get the best BT standards, 3.5mm Jack, and SD expansion. If I go that route I might end up going back to wired for pure music quality. But that's a $1100 away savings I need to do since no phone companies seem to offer Sony phones through their plans anymore, which means I am buying it outright. But it will be 6 months out before I have saved up the money for it.

Thinking I will go all in on the Xperia 1 iv since it's only $100 more the Xperia 5 iv through Swiftronics in Canada and that $100 difference in coat gives me 512GB of storage in the phone. Not a big fan of the shape of their phones but if all the rest works well I can live with the length.
That’s quite a dilemma. I’m limited to AAC on my iPad and iPhone but I did recently get an A&K SP3000 DAP that had LDAC. ironically I don’t have any LDAC listening gear except for HiBy buds and I haven’t tried the combo. I have Focal Bathys headphones but they don’t have LDAC. It was probably stupid to get those instead of the ML 5909

I wonder if there are any LDAC TWS adapters? I’d love to find ones and a case with large “wells” to accommodate my JH Lola’s that are in a drawer collecting dust
 
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