Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
May 19, 2022 at 4:45 AM Post #45,466 of 62,293
I think I'll pass on the MTW3's, the 2's respond decently well to eq, so I'll pass on the 3's,
I listened to the MTW3's in a store yesterday... just a quick impression, but I wasn't especially impressed.
Like, did they sound good? Yeah absolutely fine. But I wasn't even remotely impressed by any aspects of the sound, there was nothing that sounded bad or anything but it wasn't an upgrade from anything I already own.

The fit was the only part that felt like a clear upgrade compared to previous iterations, fit really snugly in my ear and didn't feel like much at all.
 
May 19, 2022 at 5:43 AM Post #45,467 of 62,293
I thought the 3s sounded better than the 2s but did sound more detailed than the 2s.

Also when Sony bring out there version 5s I would like to try them out but I will hope they get rid of them crappy foam tips as they just dont last.
I just hope that Sony revamps their design language, the WF1000-XM4's are literally the only true wireless earbud out of like 20+ that I've owned that has been completely incompatible with my ears. Like sure it stayed in my ear, but it didn't sit like it was supposed to at all, like the body was completely jutting out from my ears if I had the actual eartips fitted properly in the ear canal.

Plus I don't think I'm interested in another WF-1000-model unless they change up their tuning or give even more extensive EQ options in the app.
 
May 19, 2022 at 7:30 AM Post #45,468 of 62,293
I just hope that Sony revamps their design language, the WF1000-XM4's are literally the only true wireless earbud out of like 20+ that I've owned that has been completely incompatible with my ears. Like sure it stayed in my ear, but it didn't sit like it was supposed to at all, like the body was completely jutting out from my ears if I had the actual eartips fitted properly in the ear canal.

Plus I don't think I'm interested in another WF-1000-model unless they change up their tuning or give even more extensive EQ options in the app.
i had the same impression as you... and like many others as well. my game changer was to change the stock tips with final audio typ e. it fits perfect, isolates better and it is positioned as it should be i think (when looking at the pictures on the homepage).
 
May 19, 2022 at 8:26 AM Post #45,470 of 62,293
I have the B&O EX on the way. Will check them out vs. the TW3
wow. EX would be the only one model where i could think of changing my xm4. keen to hear your impressions.
 
May 19, 2022 at 9:44 AM Post #45,471 of 62,293
I've been reading this thread on and off for a while now trying to figure out what my first "serious" TWS should be, but at the same time trying to avoid the bottomless rabbit hole.
I was thinking about either AZ60 (no in-ear sensor) or MTW3 (the lack of "proper" EQ), then I found that AZ60 is currently sold for 160 eur at amazon.it, so I went for it.

Now I just have to wait and see if it is as nice as I hope.
 
May 19, 2022 at 10:14 AM Post #45,472 of 62,293
I've been reading this thread on and off for a while now trying to figure out what my first "serious" TWS should be, but at the same time trying to avoid the bottomless rabbit hole.
I was thinking about either AZ60 (no in-ear sensor) or MTW3 (the lack of "proper" EQ), then I found that AZ60 is currently sold for 160 eur at amazon.it, so I went for it.

Now I just have to wait and see if it is as nice as I hope.
That's a really great price for a new pair of AZ60!

I just sold my used AZ60 for only 50 EUR less.
 
May 19, 2022 at 1:37 PM Post #45,474 of 62,293


A pity some still use older BT 5.0/5.1 Chipsets, or the battery would be up there with the 10 hours ANC-Off / 8 hours ANC-On models.

Those are mostly old ones. Endurance Race? Live Free 2? Those others all are kinda old. Like the 230NC. Checked the date first out on Amazon - October 13th.



Meanwhile...
1652981224315.png

JVC deciding Kenwood is for "business" and "telework". Still have a 6mm driver and we add AAC to SBC but the price is higher than the Victor budget model at around $119. Not sure of the JVC approach with the first TWS being so app and voice assistant integrated and this being big on multipoint and telework focused. Kenwood is car stereos and GPS systems and some components but not sure about the Kenwood for the office crowd thing. But I guess that is the direction. JVC is consumer, Victor is studio and audiophile, and Kenwood is communications.
1652981765316.png
 
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May 19, 2022 at 2:44 PM Post #45,475 of 62,293
So my replacement MTW3 units arrived from Amazon this morning, and the popping and weird sounds on the R earbud were definitely a defect in my original set. I don’t hear that at all with the new ones.

Unfortunately, my Beoplay EX also came in this morning, and out of the box, they sound MUCH more musical to my ears. ANC and isolation don’t sound anywhere near as good as the MTW3, but I suspect that’s a tip issue.
 
May 19, 2022 at 3:01 PM Post #45,476 of 62,293
On paper only. And just because the bitrate is better, doesn't make it sound better. It just means that more data can be passed through with less compression. The implementation is rarely good, and my ears tell me without having to look and see that SBC is not really near as good as AAC even, even though they have recently improved the codec itself.

Yes, SBC offers more treble extension, at the cost of tizzy sound. All of your facts are on point, but those don't tell you how good the quality of the sound will be. And in this case SBC is no longer considered an option with 95% of the people buying new gear (and for good reason).

I absolutely agree with your last statement. But, the sound you hear will only be as good as the worst part of your chain. I have actually done this test with both the Melomania Touch, and the Hifiman Deva, and they do NOT sound very good out of SBC; though if it were all you had, one could live with it. If you are happy with SBC only, then $70 for a pair that uses a codec that is from two decades ago, isn't a bad price at all.

I agree with you that implementation plays a role, too. But note that this applies to the other codecs as well, not just to SBC.

However, I disagree with you that better treble extension of SBC vs. AAC comes at the cost of tizzy sound. Tizzy sound is the result of too much high treble energy (aka: treble spikes) at certain frequencies, not the result of treble extension. Actually, I can measure the frequency response of several TWS over SBC and some of them will have treble spikes while others will have smooth, downsloping treble. But this is always caused by driver quality / tuning and not by the codec.

Last not least, I also disagree with you that high bitrate SBC sounds good "on paper only". You've obviously not read the footnote on the Soundexperts page I linked, because there's an explanation that their ratings are based on actual blind listening tests, not just on theory. If you want, you can even take their blind test and help improve the accuracy of their ratings: http://soundexpert.org/testing-room

Of course that doesn't rule out the possibility that you may be the outlier that has better ears than everybody else. But for the majority of listeners that have taken the test, the results show that they didn't hear any sound artifacts with SBC at high bitrate.

Btw, fun fact that most people who obsess about codecs don't know that their aptX, aptx HD or LDAC transmission actually happens to one earpiece only. Because unless you have a phone / TWS combo which supports synchronous streaming to both earpieces (Qualcomm's proprietary TWS+ technology, still used by just a small minority of configurations) , only the streaming from your phone to the master earpiece will use aptX, aptx HD or LDAC compression. The secondary transmission, however, from your master earpiece to the slave earpiece, will always use ... guess what? ... high bitrate SBC.
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May 19, 2022 at 3:26 PM Post #45,477 of 62,293
I did a quick, non-scientific comparison with my stuff. I thought the aptX TWS sounded better than the one wired SBC only earphones. Over SBC only I thought the result reversed and the TWS sounded more compressed. Not as clean or extended. AptX vs. made them sound both about the same size. Both JVC 16ohm drivers. One states 5.8mm and the other 6.0mm both tuned quite close. Both ipX5 but I had removed the screens from the bore of the Sports model.

In my application I would have appreciated if they had given the new Victor the aptX.

I did find the JVC version for the US...
1652991637798.png

Over here it will not have green or gray/pink colorways. Just black, white, and blue.
 
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May 19, 2022 at 5:24 PM Post #45,478 of 62,293


A pity some still use older BT 5.0/5.1 Chipsets, or the battery would be up there with the 10 hours ANC-Off / 8 hours ANC-On models.

JBL LIVE Free 2, which was not shown in the video, includes LE Audio.(which will be supported by upgrade later)

SONY LinkBuds S, which was just unveiled, also includes LE Audio.(which will be supported by upgrade later)
 
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May 19, 2022 at 5:47 PM Post #45,479 of 62,293
Unfortunately, my Beoplay EX also came in this morning, and out of the box, they sound MUCH more musical to my ears. ANC and isolation don’t sound anywhere near as good as the MTW3, but I suspect that’s a tip issue.
this what the reviews say as well.

ex has a much better sound but anc is a kind of prio 2 and b&o.
 
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May 19, 2022 at 6:16 PM Post #45,480 of 62,293
I've been reading this thread on and off for a while now trying to figure out what my first "serious" TWS should be, but at the same time trying to avoid the bottomless rabbit hole.
I was thinking about either AZ60 (no in-ear sensor) or MTW3 (the lack of "proper" EQ), then I found that AZ60 is currently sold for 160 eur at amazon.it, so I went for it.

Now I just have to wait and see if it is as nice as I hope.
I was very late to the AZ60 game and regret I did not get them earlier ... they are really awesome ... things like in-ear sensor or wireless charging I can totally live without .. sound & fit are awesome and they are reliable (like, no surprise battery discharge over night, I know I can pick them up and trust they will play)

Enjoy!

I have yet to test the MTW3 ... but from reading along here I sense that I might not be as impressed with them as I am with the AZ60
 

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