Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
May 20, 2022 at 4:12 AM Post #45,496 of 61,392
I was very late to the AZ60 game and regret I did not get them earlier ... they are really awesome ... things like in-ear sensor or wireless charging I can totally live without .. sound & fit are awesome and they are reliable (like, no surprise battery discharge over night, I know I can pick them up and trust they will play)

Enjoy!

I have yet to test the MTW3 ... but from reading along here I sense that I might not be as impressed with them as I am with the AZ60

Thanks!
My hopes are high, lots of people seem to really like the AZ60.

What mostly has been holding be back from buying any TWS for a long time has been the inability to listen to them before buying, and most shops here in Sweden don't allow TWS returns at all, so you are stuck with what you buy.
There are lots of reviews and people try to explain what they sound like which is hard and very subjective, and frequency response curves only says so much (and I don't know what I prefer anyway, just comparing stuff to a harman curve might not help me much in the end).
Sometimes people compare to other TWS which is a good data point (especially after having watched/read maaany reviews and forum comments) but most of the time doesn't directly help me as I havn't heard those other TWS either...

This is hard, I don't like buying things without knowing if it is something that I will like and enjoy using.

From what I've understood the sound is good (ofc not everyone likes the same thing) and that is of high importance, my list preferences goes something like this:
  • Good sound quality (very subjective) that doesn't need an insane amount of EQ tweaking before sounding decent.
  • Built-in EQ (that isn't too limited) so that multiple sources can be used easily while retaining the same experience.
  • Volume and playback controls on the buds.
  • No constant white noise, can be acceptable in transparency mode only.
  • ANC, doesn't have to be the best as long as it does something decent and more importantly doesn't change the sound signature a whole lot (my current set of TWS is horrible at this).
  • Transparency that is loud and clear enough to easily be able to hold a conversation (with music paused).
  • Multipoint for when switching between work laptop and phone.
  • In-ear sensor is convenient but not a must have.
  • Wireless charging isn't very important, we mainly use cables anyway, wireless results in heat and batteries don't like heat. I don't use TWS so much that I need to charge the case all the time anyway.
  • Low phantom battery drain (my current TWS has some, at least I have to charge the case more often than I should have to based on the little amount of time I'm using them)
My current TWS is a chi-fi set, Tronsmart Apollo Bold aren't very good, I'm sort-of certain that many of these areas are implemented better in the AZ60:
  • They have waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much sub-bass but if you EQ that down (in the source) an insane amount then they start to become decent, especially if high-mids and treble is boosted a bit (and then you switch source and have to do it all over again, if even possible).
  • The in-device presets destroy treble (sounds like it is resampled at a lower sample rate), this also occurs in ANC and transparency modes so I don't use those modes much, there is no in-device EQ available other than the presets.
  • ANC also destroys the sound signature by boosting the sub-bass even more while also reducing mids :frowning2:
  • There is white noise all the time (different amount in different modes).
  • And some phantom battery drain.
  • Fit isn't very good.
  • In-ear detection works quite well.
In short, I'm tired of them and want something much better while at the same time not repeating past buying mistakes, which is hard.
Best audio purchase recently has been the Soundcore Life Q30 (not a "premium" product but quite decent due to having EQ that responds well), default EQ is horrible, some presets are decent'ish (at least when compared to default), but they also change sound signature a lot when ANC is enabled (not very good ANC), I mostly use them without ANC.
 
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May 20, 2022 at 4:22 AM Post #45,497 of 61,392
What mostly has been holding be back from buying any TWS for a long time has been the inability to listen to them before buying, and most shops here in Sweden don't allow TWS returns at all, so you are stuck with what you buy.
Amazon.se/de (30 days free return) have many of the popular TWS, also hifi klubben have a few as demos in their stores.
 
May 20, 2022 at 6:37 AM Post #45,498 of 61,392
I've been going through the same issue here. Love the MTW3 but hands down, my EX and the Astell & Kern (my previous new additions) just blow them away musically. Wider soundstage and a lot more fun. Decisions, decisions. Anyone else here considering returning their MTW3?
I returned mine yesterday…keeping the FoKus Pro
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:14 AM Post #45,500 of 61,392
I returned mine yesterday…keeping the FoKus Pro
My FoKus wouldn’t go anywhere. MTW3 do have great ANC and Transparency. But something about the sound signature… this always happens when I start comparing Sennie TWS with others. :triportsad:
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:32 AM Post #45,501 of 61,392
My FoKus wouldn’t go anywhere. MTW3 do have great ANC and Transparency. But something about the sound signature… this always happens when I start comparing Sennie TWS with others. :triportsad:
Yeah, it took me a while, but now that I’ve got the FoKus I’m hooked. Walked around NYC yesterday, took the subway, too. Isolation is astounding. Had more than just a few Bluetooth blips from interference. Not enough to scare me off from loving them. Never played with an EQ so much; very responsive, as I find my sound.
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:35 AM Post #45,502 of 61,392
Yeah, it took me a while, but now that I’ve got the FoKus I’m hooked. Walked around NYC yesterday, took the subway, too. Isolation is astounding. Had more than just a few Bluetooth blips from interference. Not enough to scare me off from loving them. Never played with an EQ so much; very responsive, as I find my sound.
They are definitely a stellar set. I’ll be in the city week after next. I’ll test out a few pairs. Headed to Citi Field too. LFGM!
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:40 AM Post #45,503 of 61,392
My FoKus wouldn’t go anywhere. MTW3 do have great ANC and Transparency. But something about the sound signature… this always happens when I start comparing Sennie TWS with others. :triportsad:
This is exactly how I feel about the Senn sound overall, really. I just don’t dig their “laid-back” sound sig.
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:41 AM Post #45,504 of 61,392
We have a new curve for both wired and wireless listening. Knowles has deemed the Harman old and stodgy and not for today's listening habits including streaming and wireless.

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“Consumers want hi-res, premium sound through their TWS earphones. This has been a challenge for OEMs who have had no clear guideline for what consumers prefer across the full spectrum. Now we know exactly how to design and tune a TWS earphone to create the best sounding audio available,” says Shehab Albahri, Sr. Director of Knowles Hearing Health Technologies R&D. “Brands that design with hi-res capable hardware and tune their earphones to the Knowles Curve will unlock the true potential of lossless streaming audio.”
Much better curve. Harman IEM needs more air above 10k.
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:42 AM Post #45,505 of 61,392
This is exactly how I feel about the Senn sound overall, really. I just don’t dig their “laid-back” sound sig.
Every time I buy their buds I’m excited but it fades when I put in the Fokus, EX and the Astell & Kern. Bummer!
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:46 AM Post #45,506 of 61,392
Yeah, it took me a while, but now that I’ve got the FoKus I’m hooked. Walked around NYC yesterday, took the subway, too. Isolation is astounding. Had more than just a few Bluetooth blips from interference. Not enough to scare me off from loving them. Never played with an EQ so much; very responsive, as I find my sound.
Do you think the isolation on the fokus pro is comparable to tws with good anc (like sony xm4)? I use tws mostly on the subway train.
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:50 AM Post #45,507 of 61,392
Do you think the isolation on the fokus pro is comparable to tws with good anc (like sony xm4)? I use tws mostly on the subway train.
Depending on your seal, the XM4 block out more, but also with a great seal, the FoKus can get great passive isolation. Depends on your usage situation.
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:51 AM Post #45,508 of 61,392
Do you think the isolation on the fokus pro is comparable to tws with good anc (like sony xm4)? I use tws mostly on the subway train.
I can’t compare to the XM4, but my last set was the Devialet Gemini, which I think had stellar noise cancellation. While these didn’t reach that level, they were close. I think they were definitely better than AirPods Pro. Subway ride was good.
Note I’m using the dual flange tips, so extra isolation
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:57 AM Post #45,509 of 61,392
Depending on your seal, the XM4 block out more, but also with a great seal, the FoKus can get great passive isolation. Depends on your usage situation.
I think you might be making the case for me to return both MTW4 and EX and get a set of FoKus instead. I used my CL2 with the bluetooth cable as my wireless set for several years, and passive isolation was just fine. I’ve been jumping on the ANC bandwagon just because curious, mostly.
 
May 20, 2022 at 11:59 AM Post #45,510 of 61,392
Much better curve. Harman IEM needs more air above 10k.
Agree. Especially for wireless but in general as well. maybe we can stop getting these smoothed over TWS. Wish more would tune and don't want to see more doing Sound ID and whatever.
 

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