[The Life]

i've tried luxman, cary, phonitor, woo, violectric and others. the real mistake is to think that high price means improved performance - especially where amps are concerned. anyways the high end forum is no place for this kind of talk.

Exactly. I think of amps like glasses. The reason I wear $2000 glasses rather than a $100 pair has nothing to do with seeing better. It has to do with aesthetics, build quality, extrenious features, etc. as long as they are both the correct prescription, there should be little difference in how well I see through either pair. In fact, if I find that this isn't the case, them the maker of one of my glasses screwed up somewhere. In my experience with amps, once you get past a certain point, the reason to go for higher prices, assuming the gain levels and output impedance are a match for the headphones in question, has little to do with differences in sound quality.

 

[up late]

@kayaandjohn - x2 what levaix said. try the th900 with what you have.

 

[MP1968]

I have a pair of TH900s arriving tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to listening to with my Burson Soloist.  However, I previously had a good experience pairing an Icon Audio HP8 with Denon D7000s, so I'm also intrigued to try the TH900 with a tube amp.  I understand that it could be a good match, especially OTL designs.  
 
Hence has anyone tried the TH900 with the Earmax Silver Edition?  It's specifically designed for low impedance 'phones down to 16 ohms. 

 

[plakat]

  I understand that it could be a good match, especially OTL designs.  

 
Technically no: OTL amps are normally better off with high impedance headphones as they have trouble delivering enough current for low impedance drivers like those in the TH900 (plus they have a high output impedance which might color sound more). So tube amps with an output transformer should be a better match.

 

[AnakChan]

  I have a pair of TH900s arriving tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to listening to with my Burson Soloist.  However, I previously had a good experience pairing an Icon Audio HP8 with Denon D7000s, so I'm also intrigued to try the TH900 with a tube amp.  I understand that it could be a good match, especially OTL designs.  
 
Hence has anyone tried the TH900 with the Earmax Silver Edition?  It's specifically designed for low impedance 'phones down to 16 ohms. 

 
Originally Posted by plakat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Technically no: OTL amps are normally better off with high impedance headphones as they have trouble delivering enough current for low impedance drivers like those in the TH900 (plus they have a high output impedance which might color sound more). So tube amps with an output transformer should be a better match.

 
I think I know MP1968's coming from as there's quite a few happy TH900/Zana Deux SE owners. It seems the ZDSE is one of the few odd OTL amp exceptions.

 

[MP1968]

Ah, OK.  In that case the Icon Audio HP8 may be a better bet.  
 
But I'm a little puzzled: I've read the the following marketing information for the Earmax SE:
 
'EARMAX amps in general are OTL design (Output Transformer Less). The actual output power and quality is depending on the load connected. Low impedance (low Z) headphones draw a lot of current and this requires a higher current power supply.  The lower the headphones impedance is, the higher the power of the OTL amplifier is needed. The Brocksieper EARMAX Silver Edition headphone amp is optimised for this and comes with a very strong power supply.'
 
My understanding is that the Silver Edition comes with a substantially uprated power supply (compared to the Pro version), which is designed  specifically for low impedance dynamics.
 
Am I misunderstanding something?  

 

[plakat]

   
I think I know MP1968's coming from as there's quite a few happy TH900/Zana Deux SE owners. It seems the ZDSE is one of the few odd OTL amp exceptions.

I've heard about that -- thats why I did not rule the possibility out but said 'technically'. I think what might play into this is that the TH900 is not too inefficient and works quite well even with low power devices (which an amp with high output impedance comes down to when driving a low-Z headphone) plus it has a smooth impedance curve over frequency.

 

[Justin_Time]

Exactly. I think of amps like glasses. The reason I wear $2000 glasses rather than a $100 pair has nothing to do with seeing better. It has to do with aesthetics, build quality, extrenious features, etc. as long as they are both the correct prescription, there should be little difference in how well I see through either pair. In fact, if I find that this isn't the case, them the maker of one of my glasses screwed up somewhere. In my experience with amps, once you get past a certain point, the reason to go for higher prices, assuming the gain levels and output impedance are a match for the headphones in question, has little to do with differences in sound quality.

Nice theory!  I would be the first to agree with you that unfortunately sound quality is NOT always commensurate with price but that is where I stop.  
 
It would be nice if you could provide us with some experimental results to validate your theory.  
 
Could you give an example of two amps with identical output impedances that are a "match" for the TH900 as you stated but with a large difference in prices--say $1,000 vs. $2,000 or $2,500 vs. $5,000--and show that they sound the same through the TH-900. That would be quite a coup as it would save all of us a lot of money!
 
I haven't got a clue as to why different amps sound different with the TH900 (or with any other headphones for that matter).  The little I know is that there are a myriad of variables that contribute to the sound of an amp, and output impedance is just one of them.

 

[Canadian411]

  I have a pair of TH900s arriving tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to listening to with my Burson Soloist.  However, I previously had a good experience pairing an Icon Audio HP8 with Denon D7000s, so I'm also intrigued to try the TH900 with a tube amp.  I understand that it could be a good match, especially OTL designs.  
 
Hence has anyone tried the TH900 with the Earmax Silver Edition?  It's specifically designed for low impedance 'phones down to 16 ohms. 

I didn't like burson amps with TH900, makes everything muddy, I prefer neutral amps. IMO.

 

[citraian]

  I didn't like burson amps with TH900, makes everything muddy, I prefer neutral amps. IMO.

The Soloist is quite OK with the TH900... Often the DAC is to blame for the muddy sound. I got this with my old Burson Conductor before getting the Vega.

 

[earthpeople]

 

On the topic of OTL, I'm not a fan of the TH900 paired with my OTL WA2. Compared to any of my SS amps, the sound is overly smooth and lacking in energy, regardless of what I'm listening to. The tubes in use may make a difference, but I would be careful about pairing the TH900 with an OTL without hearing it first. IMHO, YMMV, take everything with a mountain of salt, etc.
 
MP1968: For what it's worth, I really enjoy my TH900 with my Conductor which has a Soloist as the amp section. If you like the sound of the TH900, I don't think you will be disappointed with that setup. 
 

 Could you give an example of two amps with identical output impedances that are a "match" for the TH900 as you statedbut with a large difference in prices--say $1,000 vs. $2,000 or $2,500 vs. $5,000--and show that they sound the same through the TH-900. That would be quite a coup as It would save all of us a lot of money!

This topic pops up in Sound Science once in a while. Essentially, it boils down to the idea that a properly designed amp that is operating within spec and has a sufficiently low output impedance will be transparent (only providing gain) and not impart any sort of audible coloration. Of course, this doesn't apply to amps that intentionally add color (tube distortion, BASS BOOST, etc.). I don't want to delve too deep into this, but there is a lot of science and testing out there to reinforce it. 
 
With that said, I'd be happy to do some comparisons between my amps later today though none of mine reach far past $1200. I don't have the means to do a proper blind test, but I can provide some subjective comments. 

 

[MP1968]

My DAC is the Calyx 24/192, which should offer good clean sound.  
 
I'll be able to form my own impressions of the TH900 / Soloist combination in the next couple of weeks.  I've been impressed with the Soloist / Denon D7000 combination, which makes me think it should work well with the TH900s.
 
Nonetheless I still have an interest in tube amps.  I enjoyed my Icon Audio HP8 when I had it, and now regret selling it.  My only reservation about it was the very slight hum (and occasionally crackle) in the background, which might have been the transformer (and / or the tubes).  Plus the amount of time (and money) I spent tube rolling.  
 
I've spoken to the UK distributor of the Earmax SE today, and it will certainly drive the TH900s.  Sounds promising.........

 

[MP1968]

  On the topic of OTL, I'm not a fan of the TH900 paired with my OTL WA2. Compared to any of my SS amps, the sound is overly smooth and lacking in energy, regardless of what I'm listening to. The tubes in use may make a difference, but I would be careful about pairing the TH900 with an OTL without hearing it first. IMHO, YMMV, take everything with a mountain of salt, etc.
 
For what it's worth, I really enjoy my TH900 with my Conductor which has a Soloist as the amp section. If you like the sound of the TH900, I don't think you will be disappointed with that setup. 

 
Unfortunately I live too far from the UK distributor of the Earmax to demo it first,so it would be a 'blind' purchase.  Always a bit risky.  
 
The Soloist is the culmination of 3 or 4 amps I've tried over the past 18 months: I've been impressed.  The other alternative to the tube amp route is trying different solid states, where this is no temptation to spend time and money on tube rolling.  Oddly enough a secondhand Auralic Taurus mkii has just come up for sale........  

 

[germay0653]

I also have a Conductor and have used it by itself, with a Yellowtec PUC2 USB to S/PDIF converter and with an LH Labs Geek Out 720.  The headamp and DAC in the Conductor are very good but the USB implementation may be where the problem lies.  The sound using the PUC2 which uses the Conductors DAC and Headamp (Soloist) is very good and using GO 720 and the Conductor's headamp only is also very good IMO.

 

[citraian]

The USB implementation in the Conductor is indeed way below what the DAC can do.