[ZGLISZCZ]

  I have several question about modding the T40/50's.
 
1) Has anyone figured out a way to make the sound as neutral as possible but with a boosted sub bass? I'm talking about a fairly flat sound from 100 to 10000hz but with maybe 3-4 db boost going down from 100 to 2hz.  Obviously EQ'ing is one way, but I'm talking about actual physical changes.
 
2) has anyone tried the Fostex TH900 earpads on the T50? I see they only cost 30 dollars, which is actually cheap compared to other high quality leather pads, half the price of Mr Speakers ones.
 
3) Are the new drivers in the Mk3 version of these headphones different to the Mk2 or do the mods apply to the Mk3 version as well?
 
4) And finally,  would angling the driver create similar effects as on regular dynamic drivers? Meaning, better imaging, more forward image and soundstage?  I see that nobody made a custom 3d printed angled baffle, even though who produce these headphones, and wonder if there's an obvious reason for NOT doing it, or did people just not bother with it?

Hi derbigpr,
 
I actually would like that kind of mod;D Changing pads can do this kind of sub extension, and th900 pads might be a nice option, they look nicely made, you will just need to check what is the size to be sure they will fit. Price seems also fair, I actually didn't know they cost 30$. Few weeks ago I made my own pads. I made lot of photos and I was planning to prepare nice tutorial but it will need to wait probably for my holiday I start in 2 weeks. Right now I can send you sheets for prints you can use for sewing your own pair (it does really nice extension but for nice sub you will need to amp your headphones) if comfort is only issue then original pads are pretty comfy if you will angle them with cotton from inside (it will create some sort of chamber). With thick pads scene is also wider and somehow cleaner. (I attached image of pads I did, it was about 1 week, few hours per day, mostly sewing in bus to work
 
 
 
4) Angled baffle is a nice thing, it saves enclosure space if you make front part that goes out of the baffle profile and the pads dont need to be so thick, its also easier to make some sort of internal chamber for ear, with flat baffle and angled pads its harder to achieve this kind of chamber because of cushion. Im doing something like that right now but its to early to show it, but you can take look at my photos with those wooden headphones: http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/919686/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/ , they have this kind of baffle/ear chamber but without front side that goes out of the baffle profile. It seals well around ear.
 
edit:
sorry for large image
 
and here is example of angled baffle from Sony with front part out of the profile I mentioned: http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8b/8b75f3ab_IMG_0084.jpeg
it does not touch ear because pad is thicker, it makes driver closer to ear and with right angle. If pads have strong profile and are thick it makes sound wave direction positioned to the back of the ear and not to the inside

 

[derbigpr]

  Hi derbigpr,
 
I actually would like that kind of mod;D Changing pads can do this kind of sub extension, and th900 pads might be a nice option, they look nicely made, you will just need to check what is the size to be sure they will fit. Price seems also fair, I actually didn't know they cost 30$. Few weeks ago I made my own pads. I made lot of photos and I was planning to prepare nice tutorial but it will need to wait probably for my holiday I start in 2 weeks. Right now I can send you sheets for prints you can use for sewing your own pair (it does really nice extension but for nice sub you will need to amp your headphones) if comfort is only issue then original pads are pretty comfy if you will angle them with cotton from inside (it will create some sort of chamber). With thick pads scene is also wider and somehow cleaner. (I attached image of pads I did, it was about 1 week, few hours per day, mostly sewing in bus to work
 
 
 
4) Angled baffle is a nice thing, it saves enclosure space if you make front part that goes out of the baffle profile and the pads dont need to be so thick, its also easier to make some sort of internal chamber for ear, with flat baffle and angled pads its harder to achieve this kind of chamber because of cushion. Im doing something like that right now but its to early to show it, but you can take look at my photos with those wooden headphones: http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/919686/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/ , they have this kind of baffle/ear chamber but without front side that goes out of the baffle profile. It seals well around ear.
 
edit:
sorry for large image
 
and here is example of angled baffle from Sony with front part out of the profile I mentioned: http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8b/8b75f3ab_IMG_0084.jpeg
it does not touch ear because pad is thicker, it makes driver closer to ear and with right angle. If pads have strong profile and are thick it makes sound wave direction positioned to the back of the ear and not to the inside

 
 
Size of the earpad is not a problem for me because I'm designing the entire headphone out of scratch, so I can make the baffle exactly as big as it needs to be. As far as the angled drivers, I wondered why nobody does it on the orho and planar headphones, I thought there might be a problem with the way those driver project sound and the might cause different effects than the dynamic drivers do.
 
I actually made several designs for angled drivers, but dynamic 50mm and 40mm ones, built several headphones and always got great results with an angle of between 12 and 15 degrees and about 2 cm distance between ear and driver, which is kind of similar the arrangement on my T1's.
 
I'm also working on several stuff now, some too early too show, but some of my older designs I posted already, trying to find high quality dynamic drivers, but this time I think I'll make some changes and make a headphone based on the T50rp driver:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/788658/diy-headphones-i-need-your-opinion-and-advice-on-drivers

 

[ZGLISZCZ]

woo hoo! thats a nice work I checked your link, I know what you mean with the cost. damn 3d printing and cnc is so expensive... I was printing some large and quite thick parts in frosted detail material... I would have hifiman he1000 already if I wouldnt start to play with custom headphones... I saw one guy here that was using speakers from Sennheiser hd800 for his headphones, you might share some know how with him also. try to make baffle similar to link I posted with front part that goes out. It will make more space for driver in enclosure because you will be able to push driver closer to ear, that way you will be able to make more sleek shape of the body without compromising size of it (but measure internal rim of pads to fit to baffle protruding front part). In project Im working right now I also rotated drivers a bit so they are angled in 2 axis. sound is coming little bit from front and bottom (but in small degree) I was fitting Fostex driver to the ear without any body to see what angle it should have to perfectly position sound wave, you might try it also as it gives better visualisation.

 

[derbigpr]

  woo hoo! thats a nice work I checked your link, I know what you mean with the cost. damn 3d printing and cnc is so expensive...

 
 
Tell me about it. A few days ago I went to a small woodworking company in my town that offers CNC wood machining services. I gave them a CAD file of a design for a wooden earcup, really simple design actually, could probably make it by hand if I took some time, but can't be arsed, and all they needed was a small 10x10x3 cm size block of wood.  They said that cutting one piece out of walnut will cost roughly 150 euros PLUS taxes. I turned and left without saying bye.  It's not like you're doing any work, all you do is plug a freaking USB stick into the machine, run the program and stand next to it for 10 minutes while it cuts it. I mean, 150 euros for a piece of wood that costs 3-4 euros if you buy it raw in any wood shop is overkill even if they would carve it by hand and it took 2-3 hours to do. I think some of these companies that do these services are abusing the fact that people don't have CNC machines in their favor, and are charging as much as they possibly can, I guess it's better to have high profit margins and do small amounts of work instead of doing a lot of work with small profit margins...keeps the machines in shape for longer and expenses lower. 
 
And this is the biggest problem. I have a folder with loads of designs and ideas that I'd like to build, earcups, headbands, entire finished headphone designs, down to the final screw. But it's just way, way, way too expensive until I buy my own 3D printer and CNC router. Once I have that I'll probably be able to make parts for and build 3-4 headphones a day. For now, it's pretty much impossible, or as you said, it's better to just buy a high end headphone than to waste money on projects.  Good thing I at least found a local 3D print guy who is reasonable with prices.
 
 
 
I also thought about rotating the driver upwards, as I noticed that I usually get an effect of sound coming from slightly above with most headphones, but the problem is if I twist the baffle too much, I might end up with a design that's hard to 3D print, even some simpler baffle designs that I had 3D printed so far were slightly twisted around the thinner parts, that's why I try to keep the designs for printing simple.
 
Oh yea and I know that HD800 driver DIY thread, that's actually a nice job too, but a bit expensive IMHO, I'd rather just get the HD800's instead of spending the same money for the DIY one that definitely won't end up sounding as good, because the HD800 is just too well engineered. But it reminds me of my old idea.... this is back from the time when I got my Beyerdynamic T1's and wanted the HD800's too but couldn't afford both, so I had this vision of a Beyerheiser T800 of whatever you wanna call it,  which would basically be similar to a HD800, fully opened, using either the HD800 drivers or T1 drivers, and it would be the right size for T1 earpads and headband.
Should have been made out of a 3D printed baffle and a anodized aluminium red decorative/strengthening part around it.
 

 
I think it looks cool but it would probably cost more to make than buying the new Orpheus.

 

[maul]

  I have several question about modding the T40/50's.
 
1) Has anyone figured out a way to make the sound as neutral as possible but with a boosted sub bass? I'm talking about a fairly flat sound from 100 to 10000hz but with maybe 3-4 db boost going down from 100 to 2hz.  Obviously EQ'ing is one way, but I'm talking about actual physical changes.
 
2) has anyone tried the Fostex TH900 earpads on the T50? I see they only cost 30 dollars, which is actually cheap compared to other high quality leather pads, half the price of Mr Speakers ones.
 
3) Are the new drivers in the Mk3 version of these headphones different to the Mk2 or do the mods apply to the Mk3 version as well?
 
4) And finally,  would angling the driver create similar effects as on regular dynamic drivers? Meaning, better imaging, more forward image and soundstage?  I see that nobody made a custom 3d printed angled baffle, even though who produce these headphones, and wonder if there's an obvious reason for NOT doing it, or did people just not bother with it?

 
In regards to #1, I currently don't have a method to measure mine with great accuracy, but mine have some serious extension. I've been striving to keep a strong bass without making the mids/highs muddy and have struck a pretty damn good balance. Right now it has the bass levels of an X2, but deeper. 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

  Guys, I've modded the **** out of this thing and it sounds great. I keep running into this god damn bass rattle (left side) though - I'll crack the thing open, **** with some stuff and it'll go away. Then it'll come back, etc. etc. Any ideas what's causing it? I read about dirt being in the diaphragm, so I'm going to get the vacuum and try something. Damn annoying though.
 
Edit: No success with the vacuum. This... sucks

maul,
 
If you (or anyone) need to replace a faulty diaphragm, I have a spare. As nick n mentioned, once in a while there is warped diaphragm that gets past Fostex QC and  hits the magnets, causing a bass rattle or hum. This problem may be addressed in FIMM...I don't remember for sure.
 
As long as the dust cover on the ear side and the white "paper" on the rear side of the driver are intact, you don't need to worry about debris inside the driver.
 
~ BMF

 

[maul]

  maul,
 
If you (or anyone) need to replace a faulty diaphragm, I have a spare. As nick n mentioned, once in a while there is warped diaphragm that gets past Fostex QC and  hits the magnets, causing a bass rattle or hum. This problem may be addressed in FIMM...I don't remember for sure.
 
As long as the dust cover on the ear side and the white "paper" on the rear side of the driver are intact, you don't need to worry about debris inside the driver.
 
~ BMF

 
Thanks BMF, in my last post I said I fixed the problem but it's actually cropped up again. I'll keep messing with things and see if I can square it down to the driver. Good news about the debris, I'll check that off the list. 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

   
Thanks BMF, in my last post I said I fixed the problem but it's actually cropped up again. I'll keep messing with things and see if I can square it down to the driver. Good news about the debris, I'll check that off the list. 

This is a PITA, for sure. Let me know.

 

[maul]

  This is a PITA, for sure. Let me know.

 
Will let you know man, and thanks for this ridiculously awesome set of instructions and so forth, it's helped immensely. 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

   
Will let you know man, and thanks for this ridiculously awesome set of instructions and so forth, it's helped immensely. 

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

Measurement Kits
 
For anyone interested in measuring their headphone FR, distortion, CSD, etc, I have available 3 measurement kits I built, tested, and never used. They are the "Frans (solderdude) Improved Phantom Power Supply" (Dual Stereo version but works in Mono mode) installed inside Altoid tins. They are described at the top of Post 1 in this thread. I'll include a genuine "unobtainium" Panasonic WM-61A microphone with Etymotic IEM triflange tip and soldered 3.5 mm TRS plug.  You must have either a PC or Mac with 3.5 mm mic and 3.5 mm headphone out jacks OR a suitable audio interface.
 
Gear Chain:
WM-61A plugged into your ear > WM-61A 3.5 mm TRS > Phantom Power Mic IN >  Phantom Power 3.5 mm TRS Line OUT > PC or Mac 3.5 mm TRS Mic IN > PC or Mac 3.5 mm Headphone OUT > Headphones on your head
 
These measurement kits work with REW and ARTA.
 
Available for actual cost plus shipping. International OK.  PM if interested.
 
~ BMF
 
Update: All 3 measurement kits have been spoken for

 

[PETEREK]

 
Oh yea and I know that HD800 driver DIY thread, that's actually a nice job too, but a bit expensive IMHO, I'd rather just get the HD800's instead of spending the same money for the DIY one that definitely won't end up sounding as good, because the HD800 is just too well engineered. But it reminds me of my old idea.... this is back from the time when I got my Beyerdynamic T1's and wanted the HD800's too but couldn't afford both, so I had this vision of a Beyerheiser T800 of whatever you wanna call it,  which would basically be similar to a HD800, fully opened, using either the HD800 drivers or T1 drivers, and it would be the right size for T1 earpads and headband.
Should have been made out of a 3D printed baffle and a anodized aluminium red decorative/strengthening part around it.
 

 
I think it looks cool but it would probably cost more to make than buying the new Orpheus.

This is all possible now that 3D printers can be found pretty cheap. Print, sand, paint, and get a Beyer DTxx0 frame to use with it and you've got yourself something unique.

 

[tarsonis]

maul,

If you (or anyone) need to replace a faulty diaphragm, I have a spare. As nick n mentioned, once in a while there is warped diaphragm that gets past Fostex QC and  hits the magnets, causing a bass rattle or hum. This problem may be addressed in FIMM...I don't remember for sure.

As long as the dust cover on the ear side and the white "paper" on the rear side of the driver are intact, you don't need to worry about debris inside the driver.

~ BMF

None of my first two mods had this problem. But the paradox I got while back had this rattling in the right driver. Really annoying while going through a kick sample library. Didn't show up in my measurement and wasn't noticeable with a busy mix. And sometimes it was gone after hitting the cup. Was a mess to open it as its glued like crazy... Solved it after some tryouts by taping the diaphragm to the baffle (the part where the cable is connected) and putting a bit newplast over it. First I thought its the cable inside. Curious why it didn't show up in the measurements. Maybe the sweep time was too short. The driver itself got a bad distortion dip at 800hz which I couldn't tame on my other pairs too. Always one of the driver has this exzessiv mid distorsion. Maybe the warped diaphragm causes this problem. Time consuming bug chasing.

 

[bluemonkeyflyer]

None of my first two mods had this problem. But the paradox I got while back had this rattling in the right driver. Really annoying while going through a kick sample library.

Didn't show up in my measurement and wasn't noticeable with a busy mix. And sometimes it was gone after hitting the cup. Was a mess to open it as its glued like crazy... Solved it after some tryouts by taping the diaphragm to the baffle (the part where the cable is connected) and putting a bit newplast over it. First I thought its the cable inside. Curious why it didn't show up in the measurements. Maybe the sweep time was too short. The driver itself got a bad distortion dip at 800hz which I couldn't tame on my other pairs too. Always one of the driver has this exzessiv mid distorsion. Maybe the warped diaphragm causes this problem. Time consuming bug chasing.

The only way to know for certain whether or not the diaphragm is warped is to separate the two halves of the driver frame in order to lift out the diaphragm. It's tricky and not without risk. I linked a video in Post 1 of this thread showing how to do it. This should be considered the last resort for a problem you can't live with.
 
Good luck which ever way you go!

 

[maul]

  This is a PITA, for sure. Let me know.

 
I'm about 90% sure it's not the driver at this point, as it's been coming and going so much - I imagine if it was the driver it'd be a constant thing. Also, I read one of your other posts where I think you said that the alpha pads sacrificed some quality for comfort? As in, the 840 pads had better sound quality? One more thing, have you looked into any of this "knurling" stuff, the stuff Mr. Speakers did for the Alpha Prime: https://mrspeakers.com/alpha-prime-headphones/ . I imagine it might be hard to do for multiple headphones in an assembly line, but maybe for us only focused on one headphone, it'd be doable. Apparently it improves the sound a lot, but that could just be hype, I don't know. Something is different about the Alpha Primes, and this seems to be it -