Focal Utopia General Discussion
Jan 8, 2017 at 6:49 AM Post #1,756 of 20,602
To be fair he did say its only first impressions.
But then again people have different preferences and hearing.
The utopias(along with every headphone out there), is definitely not the headphone for everyone.
I personally love mine though.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 7:47 AM Post #1,757 of 20,602
... She's in no way an audiophile and she couldn't even care less but her hearing is top notch it seems.

 
Her hearing may be top notch because she isn't an audiophile!!!
 
Many of the women I know have much better hearing than their spouses (who aren't audiophiles either for the most part. But, the husbands may be just feigning they can't hear their wives so they don't have to respond).
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 7:50 AM Post #1,758 of 20,602
 
And what makes you come to that conclusion?

 
First and foremost, he listened on a mid-fi setup, and didn't even have the HD800's to directly compare, he was going from memory. 
 
Now if the last time he heard the HD800 it was on a high end system, that would ruin any comparisons right there. 
 
It DOES make a difference; I sold my Utopia 3 days ago and as we were demoing it against the Elear, the gap between the two widened as I improved the listening gear. At 1st they sounded nearly identical on the cheaper gear. 
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 8:10 AM Post #1,759 of 20,602
   
Her hearing may be top notch because she isn't an audiophile!!!
 
Many of the women I know have much better hearing than their spouses (who aren't audiophiles either for the most part. But, the husbands may be just feigning they can't hear their wives so they don't have to respond).

 
Yeah, I have a bad case of selective deafness as well. :wink:
 
   
First and foremost, he listened on a mid-fi setup, and didn't even have the HD800's to directly compare, he was going from memory. 
 
Now if the last time he heard the HD800 it was on a high end system, that would ruin any comparisons right there. 
 
It DOES make a difference; I sold my Utopia 3 days ago and as we were demoing it against the Elear, the gap between the two widened as I improved the listening gear. At 1st they sounded nearly identical on the cheaper gear. 

 
That would indeed make a difference but in his post I can't find anything about the gear he used so I can't tell if he did try the Utopia on lesser gear and HD800 on better gear.
Anyway, I find his post pretty honest, he tries to sum up the pros and cons and it's good to read a different opinion once in a while as well in order not to jump into the hype and buy blindly or to try it with an open mind without expectations be they good or bad.
Can't tell if I find him to be right or wrong though as I haven't heard them yet. I would have auditioned the Utopia and Elear at a fellow head-fiers place this weekend but couldn't go due to a bad cold. But I found a dealer that will ship his demos to me for a weekend.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 8:19 AM Post #1,760 of 20,602
vrln has every right to share his opinions just like any other member on Head-Fi. This thread is about the Utopia, not about to debate the credibility of a member sharing his point of view. You may well disagree with his impressions and that is up to each reader's prerogative but there is no need to publicly judge someone who has taken the time to share his thoughts in a post.
 
I'd recommend folks either just to move along or to ask vrln more specific questions about his findings.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 8:21 AM Post #1,761 of 20,602
Yeah, I have a bad case of selective deafness as well. :wink:


That would indeed make a difference but in his post I can't find anything about the gear he used so I can't tell if he did try the Utopia on lesser gear and HD800 on better gear.
Anyway, I find his post pretty honest, he tries to sum up the pros and cons and it's good to read a different opinion once in a while as well in order not to jump into the hype and buy blindly or to try it with an open mind without expectations be they good or bad.
Can't tell if I find him to be right or wrong though as I haven't heard them yet. I would have auditioned the Utopia and Elear at a fellow head-fiers place this weekend but couldn't go due to a bad cold. But I found a dealer that will ship his demos to me for a weekend.


He does state the following regarding the Utopia:
"+ Does not require that much from amplification, ran pretty well out of a midrange DAC/amp (source was a Naim DAC)"
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 11:14 AM Post #1,762 of 20,602
20 minutes? You're going to get a lot of disagreements on your assessments....................

 
I´ve never really felt the need to audition gear for more than that. Intuitively it doesn´t take long for me to know how I feel about it. All of my purchases have been made with similar short testing. Longer ownership usually tends to reinforce the first impressions, rarely have I noticed any major change to the opposite direction. That being said, as my comments are probably quite a bit removed from the mainstream on this matter so I´ll make a few clarifications:
 
- Source was Naim DAC-V1 fed by a CD transport; my reference at home is for now Valhalla 2 (OTL tube amp, very good synergy with high ohm dynamic headphones) fed by a cheap HRT Microstreamer. Previously I had a HDVD800, which I unfortunately had to sell to fund another purchase. Hopefully I will be able to upgrade my DAC soon. So my comparison electronics was actually a lot cheaper than what powered the Focals. On the other hand Naim gear in general tends to, in my experience, have an aggressive and artificially hyped sound. Thus it is entirely possible that the somewhat harsh/uneven highs were due to a bad electronics match. So it could have been a bad synergy match.
 
- The Utopia/Elear being easy to drive is due to their impedance characteristics. They are quite sensitive headphones for a flagship gear. My experience has been that <100 ohm headphones (and the Sennheiser HD 700 at 150 for example) in general tend to be not as demanding of amplification in particular, although I do of course believe the Utopia/Elear both scale with better gear. What I meant is that if driven from weaker sources they sound quite good already, as opposed to HD650/HD800 which tend to sound really bad without powerful amplification. 
 
- I went in ready to buy the Elear after reading all the hype on them, but the Utopia was never on my list due to the price (I find the entire 3k+ headphone phenomenon ridiculous and bad for the industry, but that´s just my opinion). There is a separate audio jewelry market (= high performance in very beautiful enclosures at extreme prices) like the Chord DAVE etc. Utopia belongs there in my opinion. I´m only interested in the traditional high performance market without the jewelry bonus. In other words this excludes LCD-4, HE-1000, Abyss and others.
 
- I don´t feel full size headphones have made any major technical/sound quality improvements since the 2009/2010 launch of the first new flagships (+ each of them have some critical flaws, if you ask me all new flagships are good secondary headphones to add to the classic era flagships like HD 600/650, K700-variants, DT-variants; they have not surpassed them as all rounders). The situation is not the same in the in ear headphone category, where things have truly moved forward.
 
- My reference headphone is the HD 650, which in my opinion is still the best headphone thus far in tonality and overall cohesion of sound. Overall I feel it is still better than the HD800S I own (that is mostly being used for specific music and gaming/movies). I place a very large priority on tonality/cohesion and wearing comfort, everyone has their own priorities on what features they value the most.
 
- I don´t think I was actually all that negative. For the Utopia it´s mostly the pricing that´s wrong, I do consider both of them worthy as flagships, i.e. competitive against HD800S/T1 (2g)/LCD2-3 and others. The Elear especially is a big star with the 1k pricing. They are tuned different than the Utopia, but I would not say they are particularly technically inferior to them. It´s mostly down to the tuning. From what I´ve read apparently if you change the pads on the Elear you can bring back a lot of the upper midrange dip which would fix their achilles heel for me.
 
Last but not least, the only thing that matters in regards to enjoying your headphones in the end is your own opinion: one should never put too much stock on what is said on forums. There will be opposing views on every single product. The HD 650 I adore are veiled, slow and grainy to others. Try various gear for yourself and find what works best for you. I´m sure many will feel the 4k Utopia is worthy of the price and is a clear upgrade to HD 800 and that´s fine. Nothing bad in agreeing to disagree. Moral of the story? Always audition gear yourself (and with music you are very familiar with!), never buy anything in the flagship category blind. Most good dealers should provide the opportunity to do just that.
 
Also before buying any flagship it is usually worth it to buy a few of the classic era flagships that ruled Head-Fi.org before 2009: they cost almost nothing compared to these new 3k+ era flagships (+ are easy to sell) and will provide a benchmark to compare "value" against. Perhaps you will even agree with me that they still do some things better than these new flagships (such as the "all rounder factor") despite clearly losing in things like resolution, speed etc.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 12:21 PM Post #1,763 of 20,602
@vrln,
 
While I do not agree with your findings regarding the Utopia, You do make excellent points regarding the use of old benchmark headphones like the HD650. Using these older flagships helps to set perspective and potential progress; and like you said, their cost today is very reasonable.
 
I also agree that you are the only one who can judge what works for you and you should indeed audition gear before purchasing it, if at all possible.
 
Happy listening.
beerchug.gif

 
Jan 8, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #1,764 of 20,602
 Deepest apologies Vrin, i acted impulsively because my opinion was different from yours. 
 
  I've owned both the Utopia and the HD800 and I guess the main disagreement I had was with the harshness you heard. To a lesser degree i also felt the utopia had better resolution than the the HD800. I haven't heard the HD800S. 
 
 Then again, I've heard the Utopia on what i consider hi-end gear (GS-X, Dave, etc) and things tend to smooth out quite a bit. 
 
 I didn't consider your post negative at all, just a different opinion 
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 2:03 PM Post #1,766 of 20,602
   Deepest apologies Vrin, i acted impulsively because my opinion was different from yours. 
 
  I've owned both the Utopia and the HD800 and I guess the main disagreement I had was with the harshness you heard. To a lesser degree i also felt the utopia had better resolution than the the HD800. I haven't heard the HD800S. 
 
 Then again, I've heard the Utopia on what i consider hi-end gear (GS-X, Dave, etc) and things tend to smooth out quite a bit. 
 
 I didn't consider your post negative at all, just a different opinion 

 
No worries, it´s all good
smily_headphones1.gif
 (I don´t think you´ve said anything that needs to be apologized for)
 
It is actually quite possible that the slight treble harshness I heard either was or was made worse than it is due to the Naim DAC as the source. Naim tends to have a "hyped" sound and I tend to prefer the exact opposite. It works really well with dark sounding speakers (the most common combination with Naim), but with extremely resolving and flat gear like the Utopia I have a feeling the pairing was not optimal. I guess they have to demo it with Naim gear though because they are owned by the same company these days. It would look really bad for them to use another companies headphone amplifier/DAC.
 
Also the slight harshness was nothing compared to the stock HD 800 treble (which I consider a critical flaw, luckily fixed in the S version) or Beyerdynamic T1 (2g). The Focals have much better treble than either of those. So just a minor nitpick, but the more expensive the product I think the more critical we should be of any slight flaws. Other than the price (and for me comfort, but that depends on your head shape) I don´t think the Utopias had any critical flaws like the HD 800 6kHz treble peak and that is actually very rare in flagships. Even the HD800S that I consider the overall technical benchmark sounds too thin for many due to the lack of sub bass response - understandably a critical flaw for many people.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 2:32 PM Post #1,767 of 20,602
The FU is a superb HP,the LCD-4 is superb as well and the great thing is they are so dramatically different so if you can swing the cash you really have 2 completely different listening experiences...I tend to listen to jazz with my FU and rock and blues with my LCD-4 but both sound great with anything
very well said
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:11 PM Post #1,768 of 20,602
I complement my Utopia (sorry not jumping on this FU thing) with LCD3 and HD6XX.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 7:24 PM Post #1,769 of 20,602
 
 
- I don´t feel full size headphones have made any major technical/sound quality improvements since the 2009/2010 launch of the first new flagships (+ each of them have some critical  From what I´ve read apparently if you change the pads on the Elear you can bring back a lot of the upper midrange dip which would fix their achilles heel for me.
 
 
 

 
I had hopes that I could get allot of the Utopia from an ear pad swap as well. From what I have heard though they are going to be $600. Maybe at $200 I would give it a go but I can get a pair of hd650's for $600. Focal is nuts if they charge that much.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 7:29 PM Post #1,770 of 20,602
[Post has been modified by the moderator]
i've spent a lot of time with the HD600/650, the HD700, and the HD800/800S.  the Utopia is so far above all of those headphones it's ridiculous.  of those, the 800S comes the "closest", but is still not in the same league. 
 

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