[Allanmarcus]

I wish that was true.

I like the Utopia very much, actually enough that I am (almost) willing to get rid of several HP's I own.

The Utopia sounded incredible with the GS-X Mk2 (generally acknowledged as an outstanding SS amp): the bass was perfect; guitar sound had crisp attack with nice decay; the sound stage was deep but with good separation; most of all the visceral impact of the Utopia was truly astounding. By comparison, the HD800S, an excellent HP in its own right, sounded very dynamic but slightly thin with just a touch of sibilance.

When I switched to the Apex Teton, generally accepted as an excellent (tube) amp as well, the reverse happened. The HD800S sounded dynamic, with tight bass and very wide sound stage; the midrange was liquid but still nimble with nary a trace of sibilance--overall a truly glorious sound. By comparison, the Utopia sounded a little bass-heavy; the soundstage was small with unclear separation between instruments and a touch too much reverberation, all possibly the result of a slow decay. ( I used the same source for this comparison: the Oppo 205 with ModWright modification and the PS Audio Perfect wave).

Now, to be perfectly clear, the sound differences I described above were small but they were definitely audible. I have not put these HPs through other amps (yet--I will) but I am reasonably sure that each will sound great on some amps but not so much on others. That is the nature of the beast.

Allenmarcus's advice on not getting caught up in that never-ending search for the perfect sound is a very good one. Unfortunately, it may have come too late for many of us. After all, how sensible is a person who spends $3000-$4000 on a pair of headphones? Mea Culpa!

True, the Utopia will not sound good out of a Crack or other relatively high impedance OTL amp, like the Teton. There is an exception to every rule.

For the most part, the Utopia sounds pretty damn good out of most amps, but there are limits.

 

[336881]

True, the Utopia will not sound good out of a Crack or other relatively high impedance OTL amp, like the Teton. There is an exception to every rule.

For the most part, the Utopia sounds pretty damn good out of most amps, but there are limits.

??? I would have figured the Teton would have been incredible. It was with the hd800 and last I listened to a Utopia it was a bit bright and fairly high ohm. I guess a bit too much ohm output? The moment of truth will be what tubes were in it. If it had a 6sn7w the review is valid and a shocker to me. If it did not have a 6sn7w then the reviewer does not know what he was missing. That tube is critical to that amp's sound imo.

 

[mulveling]

I've seen various reports of the Utopias really requiring an amp with a low output impedance. That means OTL tube amps need not apply. And even transformer-coupled amps will be bad unless they're optimized specifically for the Utopia's impedance. Doug of ECP Audio is now making some of his transformer-coupled amps in an "F" version specifically for the Focal Utopia/Clear/Elear headphones. He makes amazing amps, so I thought about getting one, but I can't justify another $3k+ on a dynamic headphone amp right now (got other fish to fry, like refurbishing my SOTA Star).

When you pair a moving-coil (dynamic) headphone with a too-high output impedance, what you usually get is a big relative boost in the bass frequencies (in actuality these frequencies are just attenuated less than everything else), because the resultant voltage divider effectively burns up a big chunk of the non-bass frequencies before they reach the headphone (Ohm's law). The amount of boost depends on the severity of the headphone's impedance curve. Some headphones can accommodate this boost OK (e.g. Sennheiser HD600/650/etc). Others almost REQUIRE the boost to sound good (e.g. Sony MDR-R10, Sennheiser HD800). And then we have Utopias, which apparently don't like it one bit.

The classic head-fi example of this is running an HD800 or Sony R10 out of an old Singlepower Supra or SDS amp (OTL tubes). I've experienced this myself; it sounds superb, though it was really fiddling with the frequency response of those headphones. And its endless tube-rolling options afforded so many ways to tweak the final sound. Unfortunately, at some point you run out of power for the R10 (32 ohms), because you're diverting away so much of the amp's power from the actual headphones. I actually still have an original SDS, but I don't think I'll hook my Utopias up to it, lol.

 

[koven]

I'm looking for a balanced cable, deciding between Axios and Dana Ref.. can any owners of either share their thoughts? For now I'm leaning towards the Axios just because it's a bit cheaper..

 

[up late]

I've seen various reports of the Utopias really requiring an amp with a low output impedance. That means OTL tube amps need not apply. And even transformer-coupled amps will be bad unless they're optimized specifically for the Utopia's impedance. Doug of ECP Audio is now making some of his transformer-coupled amps in an "F" version specifically for the Focal Utopia/Clear/Elear headphones. He makes amazing amps, so I thought about getting one, but I can't justify another $3k+ on a dynamic headphone amp right now (got other fish to fry, like refurbishing my SOTA Star).

When you pair a moving-coil (dynamic) headphone with a too-high output impedance, what you usually get is a big relative boost in the bass frequencies (in actuality these frequencies are just attenuated less than everything else), because the resultant voltage divider effectively burns up a big chunk of the non-bass frequencies before they reach the headphone (Ohm's law). The amount of boost depends on the severity of the headphone's impedance curve. Some headphones can accommodate this boost OK (e.g. Sennheiser HD600/650/etc). Others almost REQUIRE the boost to sound good (e.g. Sony MDR-R10, Sennheiser HD800). And then we have Utopias, which apparently don't like it one bit.

The classic head-fi example of this is running an HD800 or Sony R10 out of an old Singlepower Supra or SDS amp (OTL tubes). I've experienced this myself; it sounds superb, though it was really fiddling with the frequency response of those headphones. And its endless tube-rolling options afforded so many ways to tweak the final sound. Unfortunately, at some point you run out of power for the R10 (32 ohms), because you're diverting away so much of the amp's power from the actual headphones. I actually still have an original SDS, but I don't think I'll hook my Utopias up to it, lol.

my own experience is that the utopia reacts to an amp with higher output impedance more than any of my other dynamic cans, which tend to be amp agnostic. the utopia's tonal balance is noticeably altered. i would recommend avoiding pairing the utopia with higher impedance tube amps.

 

[Justin_Time]

??? I would have figured the Teton would have been incredible. It was with the hd800 and last I listened to a Utopia it was a bit bright and fairly high ohm. I guess a bit too much ohm output? The moment of truth will be what tubes were in it. If it had a 6sn7w the review is valid and a shocker to me. If it did not have a 6sn7w then the reviewer does not know what he was missing. That tube is critical to that amp's sound imo.

I tried various tubes including teh 6SN7W with the Apex Teton driving the Utopia: no dice. OTL tube amps just cannot deal with Utopia.

From my experience, the pairing GS-X Mk2/Utopia is heavenly. So is the pairing Apex Teton/HD800S.

 

[fhuang]

I've seen various reports of the Utopias really requiring an amp with a low output impedance. That means OTL tube amps need not apply. And even transformer-coupled amps will be bad unless they're optimized specifically for the Utopia's impedance. Doug of ECP Audio is now making some of his transformer-coupled amps in an "F" version specifically for the Focal Utopia/Clear/Elear headphones. He makes amazing amps, so I thought about getting one, but I can't justify another $3k+ on a dynamic headphone amp right now (got other fish to fry, like refurbishing my SOTA Star).

When you pair a moving-coil (dynamic) headphone with a too-high output impedance, what you usually get is a big relative boost in the bass frequencies (in actuality these frequencies are just attenuated less than everything else), because the resultant voltage divider effectively burns up a big chunk of the non-bass frequencies before they reach the headphone (Ohm's law). The amount of boost depends on the severity of the headphone's impedance curve. Some headphones can accommodate this boost OK (e.g. Sennheiser HD600/650/etc). Others almost REQUIRE the boost to sound good (e.g. Sony MDR-R10, Sennheiser HD800). And then we have Utopias, which apparently don't like it one bit.

The classic head-fi example of this is running an HD800 or Sony R10 out of an old Singlepower Supra or SDS amp (OTL tubes). I've experienced this myself; it sounds superb, though it was really fiddling with the frequency response of those headphones. And its endless tube-rolling options afforded so many ways to tweak the final sound. Unfortunately, at some point you run out of power for the R10 (32 ohms), because you're diverting away so much of the amp's power from the actual headphones. I actually still have an original SDS, but I don't think I'll hook my Utopias up to it, lol.

guess that makes lot of sense. comparing more right comparing the utopia to the r10 than hd800. so maybe a rudistor rp010b would sound right with the utopia?

 

[llamaluv]

GS-X Mk2/Utopia is heavenly

Another vote for the GS-X Mk2 + Utopia. With an equally capable DAC, it's hard to imagine a dynamic headphone setup with better technicalities.

 

[sheldaze]

OTL tube amps just cannot deal with Utopia.

I agree with the suggestions (the posts following your post, suggesting amplifiers suitable for the Utopia). But regarding OTL, have you tried the ZDS with Utopia?

 

[Justin_Time]

I agree with the suggestions (the posts following your post, suggesting amplifiers suitable for the Utopia). But regarding OTL, have you tried the ZDS with Utopia?

Unfortunately, I do not have a ZDS.

Eventually, I will set up to other tube mps, the WOO WA5 and EAR HP-4, to see how they do with Utopia.

 

[Justin_Time]

Another vote for the GS-X Mk2 + Utopia. With an equally capable DAC, it's hard to imagine a dynamic headphone setup with better technicalities.

I used the Oppo 205 ModWright (SACD). Outstanding results. Even the HeadPhone Out of the 205--unmodified by ModWright--sounded good.
But nothing compared to the vinyl sound--the SME 30/SME V/Koetsu Rosewood won on visceral impact but the AVID SP/SME V/Lyra Titan was decidedly more lively and nimble.

 

[meomap]

I used the Oppo 205 ModWright (SACD). Outstanding results. Even the HeadPhone Out of the 205--unmodified by ModWright--sounded good.
But nothing compared to the vinyl sound--the SME 30/SME V/Koetsu Rosewood won on visceral impact but the AVID SP/SME V/Lyra Titan was decidedly more lively and nimble.

Problem is cost $$$.
I just have entry level only.
Yes sound much more livelier with Utopia.

 

[mulveling]

I used the Oppo 205 ModWright (SACD). Outstanding results. Even the HeadPhone Out of the 205--unmodified by ModWright--sounded good.
But nothing compared to the vinyl sound--the SME 30/SME V/Koetsu Rosewood won on visceral impact but the AVID SP/SME V/Lyra Titan was decidedly more lively and nimble.

Dang, that's some nice gear. I run Koetsu on my main rig and absolutely love them. Agreed; at this level of analog, digital is no competition.

 

[Justin_Time]

Problem is cost $$$.
I just have entry level only.
Yes sound much more livelier with Utopia.

You can get very nice vinyl system for a fraction of the cost of the SME or Avid. I bought these tables over 15 years ago. I cannot afford the current, ridiculously inflated prices, especially the MC cartridges. Unfortunately, the prices of portable audio gears (HP, IEM and DAC) are embarking on the same irrational price escalation and will soon keep most of us mere mortals out of the game.

BTW, the Oppo 205 playing SACD is no slouch and even better when modified by ModWright (at a price!). But the sound from the HeadPhone out of the Oppo 205 (untouched by ModWright) into the Utopia (and the HD800S) was surprisingly good. And you get a great 4K home video player to boot.

 

[mulveling]

I'm working-class/mortal too, and the prices on all this stuff has indeed become increasingly ridiculous. I've been upgrading, and then selling plus injecting more money, over many years now, to build to this point. But more importantly, great deals can be had used of course, plus some import items (e.g. Koetsu) can be had for vastly better prices by avoiding the USA distributor via other routes (e.g. Singapore). When does a legit warranty matter on a cartridge? NEVER, lol. Koetsu also has an excellent rebuild policy, which considerably lowers the total cost of ownership over the long run.