[Jodet]

I think this realignment of the wall of fame sends a Clear message (pun intended) to manufacturers. Seeing the new benchmark for TOTL headphones rise to 4k+ yet not delivering a total package is weak. While I didn't always agree with Tyll's preferences, he is evolving as a reviewer, as we all do with our personal tastes so I am good with it. I am kinda looking forward to seeing the LCD2C vs Sundara comparison

The new Hifiman TOTL can at six grand.... that's just crazy. The manufacturers have been testing the market and it seems there are people with money to burn. A shame, this stratospheric pricing is not a healthy trend for manufacturers or consumers.

 

[Ekul61]

Yes, i have a violectric 280. I wonder if a $1800 amp is overkill. And the same quality of sound can be reproduced with a $200 asgard.

 

[Themordent]

With the constantly evolving landscape of people's tastes, the demands of the market, the state of the art, etc. there is reasonable expectation that the WoF will change over time. However, this most recent deep-cleansing seems to marks a significant philosophical change in what his honor roll represents and how it is constructed.

I am very interested in seeing what kinds of "tonally balanced" offerings the future holds, and whether or not they can appease the Gods of Sonic Coherence and earn a spot on this new list.

 

[qrtas]

The new Hifiman TOTL can at six grand.... that's just crazy. The manufacturers have been testing the market and it seems there are people with money to burn. A shame, this stratospheric pricing is not a healthy trend for manufacturers or consumers.

I am glad this crazy trend of super expensive headphones is changing lately. I remember when the the HD800 came out. If am not mistaken it was $1500 US dollars. At that time, I had the HD650. I paid I paid $323 for the hd650, brand new. Then the price for the lcd3 for $2000 was insane. Now we are more comfortable paying $1500 for a headphone, when we compare the price with a $4k + price.

I think the Focal Clear and the mrspeakers Aeon flow are good testament that the trend is changing for the better. Manufacturers are for sure paying attention to them. 4K - 6K for a pair of headphones is just crazy.

I think the competition now is who can make the best headphones for a reasonable price.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I seriously don't get these complaints about higher end stuff. The Susvara didn't make the HEX go away, the Utopia doesn't mean the Clear isn't available, the LCD-4 and LCD-3 coexist. It makes perfect sense that new, more expensive items will begin to roll out over time.

I could understand people whining if the prices on everything were going up. Like if the HD800 cost $2500 now or something, but they don't. Those items remain, their prices are coming down, and bigger things are reaching further into the stratosphere.

MrSpeakers is still making their $3000 VOCE e-stat even with the Aeon around, and the Ether hasn't vanished, either. The only reason to throw a tantrum about the super-expensive stuff is if you feel entitled to be able to afford the best a company can offer. You're not. No one is. A day will come when a pair of headphones cost $10,000, and almost none of us will even hear them, let alone own them. However, the stuff you can get for $500 that day will be incredible, and we should just be damn happy with that.

It's like watching a bunch of people buying sweet-ass Mustangs and complaining that Lamborghinis exist. It only matters if you care that something better is out there. Basically you're asking companies to stop making literally the best they can, because you want them to only operate within your budget.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

The new Hifiman TOTL can at six grand.... that's just crazy. The manufacturers have been testing the market and it seems there are people with money to burn. A shame, this stratospheric pricing is not a healthy trend for manufacturers or consumers.

I think Tyll sees this as unhealthy as well (IMO, of course), which contributed to the Clear knocking off the Utopia and LCD-4 off of the WoF. As far as HiFiMan goes, they could plate the Susavara in gold and diamonds and it’s not worth the asking price. Are any of the big guys, Senny or Focal publicly traded? I’d love to get a look at exactly how much they actually spend in product development.

 

[iAudio365]

I understand that people are upset about knowing that the headphone they love and they spent so much money on has been kicked out of the WoF. I’ve been in that train many times. But I just don’t really care anymore.

I read Tyll’s and other people’s reviews, specially because when I purchase audiophile headphones, I don’t have a chance to listen to them before I purchase them. But once I put them to the test with my own ears, that’s what really counts to me.

For the guys that already have the Utopia and love them, who cares what other people say at this point. If you love them, keep loving them. I know there is a feeling of proudness when your favorite headphones are on the WoF or any other ranking, but in the end we just need to enjoy music.

We, audiophiles get a chance to listen to the best headphones ever made like Focals, Audezes, senheisers, mrspeakers, Beyerdynamics, Akgs, and the list goes on and on, but for some reason we are never quite happy.

Some times really envy my non-audiophile friends. They put in their ears those white Apple earbuds and they just enjoy.

I have a lot of respect for Tyll. Reading his reviews have helped me in my decisions, when buying my headphones. My purchases have always been blind, my local stores only carry Bose, beats and crap like that. I am sure that is the case for most of us, so I heavily rely on reading reviews and other’s opinions.

I don’t want to make this too long, but I think I already did. If you already love your headphones, just keep enjoying them. Life is short ENJOY

Exactly, I couldn’t care less what other people think, it’s what I think that counts, on top of this i agree with him pulling the utopias and I own and love them but agree as he was supplied a pair that were inconsistent with what was going to market making the initial review unfair to begin with.

Regardless after owning both the utopia is just more my cup of tea but great that focal is now hitting heavy in all price brackets for different headphone tastes and I hope they keep it up.

As with all things like you said, life is short and I will eventually move my utopia on and get the next best thing, i just hope it’s a utopia 2 or something along those lines.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Thanks for the well wishes!

@SomeGuyDude is sort of right. The Clear takes so little effort to get up and go. I guess I’d ask what your preferred feature set might be?

As mentioned, I need an amp that I can feed from the BlueSound, via the 1/8 to RCA or 1/8 to 1/8, the DAC is okay. Plus, I get the hardware MQA rendering, so I prefer not to use the optical out, I had trouble getting it to lock on with the Chord Cable.

 

[alota]

Past: experimentation and fun
Today: dave and utopia....sounds good

 

[Beagle]

The new Hifiman TOTL can at six grand.... that's just crazy. The manufacturers have been testing the market and it seems there are people with money to burn. A shame, this stratospheric pricing is not a healthy trend for manufacturers or consumers.

You're right. In fact, It's making a mockery out of the headphone hobby.

 

[catscratch]

Yeah, it's almost as if generations of people brought up by marketers to self-identify based on the products they consume are suddenly attaching their identity to the products they consume. And taking offense at the critique of said products. Weird!

I have to say, the quest for neutrality is not bias. IIRC, based on the research I read, people who are given a group of speakers to listen to without knowing what they are, and then asked to pick out their favorite speaker, pick out the most neutral speaker with startling accuracy - something near 80%? Quoting based on memory here, so I'm probably wrong. But, the gist of it is, if you want to make the most accurate recommendation, that is, the recommendation that will suit the largest group of listeners, then recommend the most neutral gear.

Of course, neutrality in headphones is more complicated than neutrality in speakers. Listening to two point sources right outside of your ears is not the same as listening to a single or double point source a long distance away. Your HRTFs affect the sound coming from a distance, and your brain processes that sound to give you a picture of neutral, but then when you listen to headphones, the sound isn't affected by the shape of your head, but your brain still processes it as if it was, and now leads you astray. So it could very well be that two people listening to the same pair of headphones hear differently. But how differently? What's the specificity with which people pick out the most neutral headphones? That I don't know. But hell, we don't even exactly know what neutral in a headphone looks like, anyway, this field is all so, so new.

Regardless, the pursuit of neutrality is important. Throwing up our hands and saying "it's all relative" is not the right course. There probably is variance based on how people hear, and there will always be a niche for off-neutral headphones, but you just need to look at the history of this hobby and all the snake oil salesmen that have infested it to see what total subjectivism gets you.

 

[TSAVJason]

As mentioned, I need an amp that I can feed from the BlueSound, via the 1/8 to RCA or 1/8 to 1/8, the DAC is okay. Plus, I get the hardware MQA rendering, so I prefer not to use the optical out, I had trouble getting it to lock on with the Chord Cable.

As a straight analog amp I might suggest taking a look at the HeadAmp GSX mk2. I do prefer the balanced connection with the Clear.

Including DAC, I might suggest taking a look at the Sony TA-ZH1ES. I also enjoyed the Clear with the Woo Audio WA22. Another that I like that’s both single ended & tubes is the Ampsandsound Kenzie.

I’ll make other suggestions after my head is clear so don’t expect much more today Happy New Year!!

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I think Tyll sees this as unhealthy as well (IMO, of course), which contributed to the Clear knocking off the Utopia and LCD-4 off of the WoF. As far as HiFiMan goes, they could plate the Susavara in gold and diamonds and it’s not worth the asking price. Are any of the big guys, Senny or Focal publicly traded? I’d love to get a look at exactly how much they actually spend in product development.

Why? Why isn't it? Because headphones aren't "allowed" to be that expensive? Or do super expensive headphones have to be like the Orpheus where they aren't really "production" products?

I don't have the money for any of those TOTL items but I seriously hate the notion of insisting that companies hamstring themselves instead of occasionally trying to make the literal best they're capable of just because a bunch of consumers have a hissy fit that headphones exist that they can't afford.

You don't have to buy them.

 

[robertbudding]

Why? Why isn't it? Because headphones aren't "allowed" to be that expensive? Or do super expensive headphones have to be like the Orpheus where they aren't really "production" products?

I don't have the money for any of those TOTL items but I seriously hate the notion of insisting that companies hamstring themselves instead of occasionally trying to make the literal best they're capable of just because a bunch of consumers have a hissy fit that headphones exist that they can't afford.

You don't have to buy them.

It's great that companies push boundaries to make the best gear possible. With time, some of that technology trickles down to more reasonably priced products.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

It's great that companies push boundaries to make the best gear possible. With time, some of that technology trickles down to more reasonably priced products.

Seriously. The LCD-2 was $1300 when it was new, and the Classic (which is essentially the same thing) is $599. Why? Because Audeze made their crazy flagships and the price for the lower-rung items could drop accordingly. The LCD-X "creator's version" (meaning just the headphone without the Pelican case) costs the same as the new LCD-2.

Again, I could understand people being upset if these new and expensive products were replacing the more affordable models, but they aren't! People are neither obligated to purchase, nor entitled to own, the most expensive product a brand creates. In most consumer realms, prices are low because companies are trying to stay within reasonable prices to make sure potential buyers aren't turned away. Niche products for enthusiasts aren't constrained by these issues.

You think $6000 for headphones is expensive? While some people in this thread are falling all over themselves to applaud Focal for keeping their headphones reasonably priced, the company's flagship speaker, the Grande Utopia EM, costs over two hundred thousand dollars. There are speaker companies that make sets costing in the millions.

The reason people aren't constantly whining about it? They understand that those exist for those who have money to burn and realize that the stuff lower down the price ladder are plenty and all they could ever need. It's only around here that people get SO upset about the idea of a headphone existing that they can never afford. I swear, if I didn't know better, I'd think it's because a lot of posters resent the idea of not having the best, so they don't want any company making something that leaves them whimpering that someone has better headphones than they do.

The Focal Clear is undoubtedly incredible, but there will be, and are, better headphones out there. They just cost way too much for most of us to have them. People gotta deal with it.