Focal Clear headphones
Jan 1, 2018 at 1:02 AM Post #1,456 of 12,550
From what I heard, Clear does not seem to scale up with a high-end amp. Even though, totl phone markets are growing, amp markets seem to be destined to be shrinking as effeciency improves

Sure they do, just not to the extent something like the HD650 or HD800 does. They were clearly better at the Hi-Fi terms from a Cavalli Liquid Crimson vs. a Garage1217 Project Sunrise III with linear PSU (though the latter helped reduce fatigue a bit).
 
Jan 1, 2018 at 3:02 AM Post #1,458 of 12,550
From what I heard, Clear does not seem to scale up with a high-end amp. Even though, totl phone markets are growing, amp markets seem to be destined to be shrinking as effeciency improves

Hmmm some might vigorously disagree. I’m not sure you’d want to run out an buy a DAVE for your new Clears but hey if you want it do it.

On the other hand I was having fun listening to how well it does scale.

As for the Amp market shrinking ....nah! I think you’ll see more of the good manufacturers producing better stuff become the cream of the crop so to speak.
 
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Jan 1, 2018 at 4:24 AM Post #1,459 of 12,550
HPpy new year!!!!!! As usual i danced with all the older ladies but the ones my age (23) were mostly shy. Here's to another year of pulling every other woman on the dance floor! :)
 
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Jan 1, 2018 at 6:11 AM Post #1,460 of 12,550
I don't care Hifiman sells Sangri-la ($60,000). A few uber rich folks should be able to afford it, and hifiman will be able to recoup initial R&D expenses. While it will take time, such innovation will trickle down lower-end products, and market competition will ultimately bring down a price tag all the way down to make it affordable.
 
Jan 1, 2018 at 7:26 AM Post #1,461 of 12,550
I also agree it doesn’t hurt to exist $50,000 headphones. And nobody is obligated to buy them, in fact, many people can hear today a fairly good sound quality with a $50 headphone they would have to spend $300 4 years ago. The market is growing in both directions and the lowest segment has the biggest potential. Options for everybody taste and wallet !
 
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Jan 1, 2018 at 12:39 PM Post #1,462 of 12,550
Agreed, my perspective may be slanted by my background. First, I work in an industry where we have to defend our pricing constantly, though unlike my industry, headphones aren’t life and death. The other is more relevant, though perhaps no more valid to you. I’ve been an audiophile (more or less) since the early 80’s. I’ve watched the 2 channel world price itself out of existence, I used to go to the CES begging during that time period, most of the attendees were young, like myself. I quit going in 98, one thing I noticed at that point, and from what I hear from Friends who still attend it and the other major show, all the attendees are As old as we are. The two channel is all old men (like me), the vigor and youth is at the headphone sections or shows.

I really began focusing on headphones around 2004, and I’m seeing the same trend in this segment, again this isn’t a life or death industry, so people can choose to spend their money anyway they want too. Plus, it’s entirely an opinion when I think HiFiMan is incapable of producing a product that deserves a $6k price. Their QC, and level of production level of quality isn’t even close. Though in the end the market will take care of itself, if a company can make it selling 10 $60k units a year, go for it, I’ve read several reports that Sennheiser is having significant reorganization and layoffs. Once again, in my opinion, Focal headphone strategy of listening to consumers and dealers, and launching an improved product at a reasonable price point is brilliant.

I think the issue that's happening is that you're missing a touch of perspective here, yes.

HFM's ability to make a $6k product is more your qualm with HFM in general. That's fine. What you're missing is that the Susvara, and products like it, are not "market" products. They're not coming off of the assembly line and put into a stack of boxes that are getting shipped to Best Buy. The Susvara, the Utopia, the LCD-4, these are their boutique products made simply to push the envelope. That's why they exist.

It's also a bit hazy to praise Focal for "reasonable price point" when, again, they make a speaker that costs over two hundred thousand dollars for a pair. You can't treat Focal like they're this bastion of reasonable pricing when they are absolutely entrenched in the crazy high end.
 
Jan 1, 2018 at 2:04 PM Post #1,463 of 12,550
People don't resent the idea of not having the best. People are afraid of being priced out. The uproar over Sennheiser threatening to discontinue the HD650 and replacing it with an inferior model is because people who cannot afford to spend $1k+ on headphones will suddenly will have a worse headphone market to look forward to.

Again, I hate to tote my own horn here, but I've been around long enough to see the prices in this market climb, and climb... and climb. People would routinely call a sub $1k headphone flagship and devote all of their research and technology to it. Now, flagships are well over $1k, often over $3k, and sub $1k headphones are based on trickle-down technologies, and aren't necessarily better off for it.

Manufacturers want this to be a luxury market, because the profit margins there are higher. But as this becomes a luxury market, enthusiasts are priced out and the hobby starts to disappear for many people. Holding the manufacturers toes in a fire over headphone prices, and giving no quarter over problems in high-price products, is the correct thing to do, if we want to preserve the hobby and keep it affordable.
I agree. When the Massdrop Elex drop wasn't doing well, they responded by lowering the price and (i believe) it ended with an extra 100 people purchasing it. I understand both points of the argument: Higher priced headphones' technology trickles down to the newer cheaper headphones ( Beyer T1 tesla drivers down to the newer 1770 & 1990 headphones). I also see the side were people are afraid of a vendor moving pass their comfortable price point. When Mr speakers stopped making the alpha dogs and started making his Ether/c and Ether Flow/c, there was a time when Dan had no headphone under a grand to buy (before both Aeons were out). Not too long ago the 500-1000$ price point was fairly barren. Now you have Beyer, Mr Speakers, Audeze (pricing lower the LCD2C for the holidays and as they phase out the EL8/c), and Focal (recent new Elear price drop to 700-800$ and the Elex Massdrop deal). Was it because of flagship tech trickling down or because of the desire/demand for more representation? Despite what side of the fence anyone of us are on the subject it was probably a lot of both. This is a website where people can come to express their experiences with headphones/dac/amps etc...and the companies who make them. Regardless of their opinions, they (and there opinions) should be respected.
 
Jan 1, 2018 at 3:22 PM Post #1,464 of 12,550
Yes, i have a violectric 280. I wonder if a $1800 amp is overkill. And the same quality of sound can be reproduced with a $200 asgard.

No, it can't. Whatever you do.... keep the 280. It's a lifetime amp. And one more thing.. do not do 'quick comparisons'. It took me a year to figure out what I liked about the 280 compared to my other amps.
 
Jan 1, 2018 at 4:15 PM Post #1,465 of 12,550
I also agree it doesn’t hurt to exist $50,000 headphones. And nobody is obligated to buy them, in fact, many people can hear today a fairly good sound quality with a $50 headphone they would have to spend $300 4 years ago. The market is growing in both directions and the lowest segment has the biggest potential. Options for everybody taste and wallet !

Paulo, how are the Clears from your Fiio X7ii?
I think the issue that's happening is that you're missing a touch of perspective here, yes.

HFM's ability to make a $6k product is more your qualm with HFM in general. That's fine. What you're missing is that the Susvara, and products like it, are not "market" products. They're not coming off of the assembly line and put into a stack of boxes that are getting shipped to Best Buy. The Susvara, the Utopia, the LCD-4, these are their boutique products made simply to push the envelope. That's why they exist.

It's also a bit hazy to praise Focal for "reasonable price point" when, again, they make a speaker that costs over two hundred thousand dollars for a pair. You can't treat Focal like they're this bastion of reasonable pricing when they are absolutely entrenched in the crazy high end.


We all need to get back on subject, but I was discussing Focal in headphones only. Audeze and Focal Headphones are buil like $3K headphones, HiFiMan, aren’t even close.
 
Jan 1, 2018 at 10:14 PM Post #1,470 of 12,550

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