Fire Phoenix DAC-02 / the odac->o2 desktop rival

[Dsnuts]

Hey Kiteki. Let me ask you about this one. here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SD-650-24Bit-96K-Hi-Fi-Preamp-DAC-Coaxial-Optical-USB-Headphone-Amplifier-/200838390808?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2ec2e6a418  What do you think about the specs on this one.
 
[size=12pt][size=12pt]SD-650 CS4398 + DIR9001 Hi-Fi DAC 24bit 96khz Coaxial/Optical/USB + Headphone Amplifier

Built-in MCU control switch.[/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Restart the DAC do not have to re-select the input.[/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Multi-function input. Full-function LED display.[/size]
 
[size=12pt]Built-in headphone amplifier.[/size]
 
[size=12pt]USB / fiber / coaxial input, support 24bit/96khz.[/size][/size]

[size=12pt][size=12pt]Main chipset:[/size]
 
[size=12pt]Digital receiver chip: DIR9001[/size]
 
[size=12pt]USB DAC chip: TE7022L[/size]
 
[size=12pt]D / A converter: CS4398[/size]
 
[size=12pt]OP chip: OPA2604[/size]
 
 
[size=12pt]Technical indicators:[/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]input interface: RCA / coaxial / optical / USB (loop switch)[/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Input Frequency: 44.1,48,96 KHZ/16/24BIT[/size]
[size=12pt]SNR:> 115db[/size]
[size=12pt]Dynamic Range: 105db[/size]
[size=12pt]Distortion: 1KHZ% 0.0007[/size]
[size=12pt]Rated output: 1.8VPP[/size]
[size=12pt]Frequency response :20-20KHz (-0.2 dB)[/size]
[size=12pt]Total power <10W[/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Headphone output power: 300R/200mw[/size]
[size=12pt]headphone output distortion: 1KHZ% 0.036[/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Size: 115 * 158 * 38mm[/size] [/size] [size=12pt] [/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Power Adapter input: 100-240V AC global Universal.[/size][/size]

[size=12pt][size=12pt]Color: Silver.[/size][/size]
[size=12pt] [/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Weight: about 1000g [/size][/size]

[size=12pt][size=18pt]Packing List:[/size]
[size=12pt]1 x S.M.S.L SD- 650[/size]
[size=12pt]1 x power adapter[/size]
[size=12pt]1 x USB cable,[/size]
[size=12pt]1x manual (English)[/size]
[size=12pt]1x 3.5 to 6.5 plug adapter[/size][/size]
 
on second thought I think that DIY  box posted earlier is a better deal over this one. I bought one on Amazon for $126 but then realized previous link is definitely a better deal. It seems the only advantage of this one if the DIR9001

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

[size=12pt]SD-650 CS4398 + DIR9001 Hi-Fi DAC 24bit 96khz Coaxial/Optical/USB + Headphone Amplifier[/size]
 
[size=12pt][size=12pt][...][/size][/size]
[size=12pt][size=12pt]Rated output: 1.8VPP[/size]
[...][/size]

 
I'm not kiteki, but I'd be very careful before purchasing something from a company that rates output power in "VPP" (Volts Peak-to-Peak.)
 
1.8 VPP is only 0.9 V peak. When converted to an actual, usable value (Volts RMS), it's even smaller. This is far less than the 2.0 V standard.
 
The usual reason for using non-standard measures is to try to make the product appear better than it actually is. They're hoping potential customers won't look beyond "24 bit 96kHz" and a list of IC's used.

 

[Dsnuts]

Ya I actually cancelled this order from Amazon. Though it was very tempting as it was only $126.  I realized after looking at the DIY box posted earlier that this SMSL is not a good a deal. I already own the fire phoenix and I don't expect too much sound difference my FP and these other variations. But I did get one of these.

Aune T1.. These are getting some rave reviews online. I am hoping these are worth the price tag. By the way guys. That little tube amp I posted a pic of earlier on the thread. The Bravo Ocean tube amp. Is an amazing sounding amp. Was the reason why I wanted to try this one actually.
 
Also have one of these on order.

Hifimediy Sabre USB DAC to pair up with my Bravo.Need to stop looking at ebay.

 

[kiteki]

I don't think the SMSL SD-650 looks very nice on the inside, the placement of the capacitors looks pretty random to me.  In contrast the Fire Phoenix has a much nicer layout on the inside.
 
I don't personally like the sound of the OPA2604 it's using since I listened to that for pretty much several hours daily for over a year in my Teclast T51.
 
I remember once when I put OPA2604 in my AK4396 desktop DAC I was suddenly reminded of the sound of my Teclast T51.
 
In experiments like that I realised the line-out op-amp of a DAC is important, if it's a 'weaker' chip it will only partially override the sound of the DAC chip.
 
I don't believe you can take advantage of an amplifier with let's say OPA627 in it with an Xperia phone, since I have one and I can't.  You need to look at the total synergy of the total circuit - from the media player to the transducer!
 
[so yes, sure, this is 'implementation' like the French user was saying, or this user, and hundreds of others recently, however they use that term in such as weak parts can measure well, and fancy parts can measure weak, i.e. the parts are not very important only their final result in unison, in an EE sense.  This is irrelevant - unless you only believe in specifications.]
 
 
I didn't really believe in high-end DAC's before, and I tried a couple 'audiophile' media players and couldn't hear any difference*.  I've tried different cables and can't hear any real difference, I've tried high-rez content like 24/192 a lot and can only hear something like 1% difference after I downsample it to 16/44.1.
 
So why then can I hear a difference in DAC's and op-amp chips, plus thousands of others online?  It doesn't make any sense.  I'm 'over' the whole placebo phase when you can 'hear more detail' or 'hear more highs' just because you're focusing more tightly.
 
 
So back to the SMSL SD-650 it doesn't look very good for the price, you could just buy my CS4398 DAC instead, and put AD797 on the line-out.  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Finished-CS4398-CS8416-USB-DAC-With-Transformer-case-/120769856777
 
Or you can try the Breeze Audio TE7022 / CS4398 PD01 for a lot cheaper - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Finished-CS4398-CS8416-USB-DAC-With-Transformer-case-/120769856777
 
None of us know exactly how the PD01 sounds but I it's the cheapest you'll ever find with CS4398.
 
If you look at the listing minishow wrote... "Output of OPA2132 from BB company: performance better than OPA2604 /" 
 
I haven't actually heard the OPA2132 but there are 17 reviews of it here - http://www.ti.com/product/opa2132
 
I have heard the OPA2134 which is an awesome chip, it's 'fast' sounding and clear, and the OPA2132 is only supposed to sound better - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/101905-opa2132-2134-a.html
 
Everything is soldered down in the PD01 but that's probably a good thing so you can just listen to the music and not read .pdf sheets lol.
 
 
*Edit:  I can hear the difference in at least one media player now, Neutron on Android smartphones is very good, I think it uses 32-bit floating point and some kind of hardware optimization?  There are always scientific reasons for higher sound quality which we are not familiar with, just listen first and ask questions later.

 

[kiteki]

 
Also have one of these on order.

Hifimediy Sabre USB DAC to pair up with my Bravo.Need to stop looking at ebay.

 
That one looks good.  There is a family of ES9023's now, it started with the Calyx Coffee and AckoDAC AKD-23S, then moved on to the ODAC, then the Dragonfly, UD100, and Hifimediy Sabre.
 
That's 7 I can think of in total.  My hunch is these all sound very very close since the design hardly changes at all, look at ClieOS's review of the UD100 he thinks it sounds completely identical to the ODAC, so why are the ODAC and Dragonfly so popular?  It's all marketing and price.
 
My AckoDAC sounded very good especially connected to my stereo receiver and full-size speakers, except I found it a little sterile, you know like an empty hospital.
 
I found myself using my AK4396 a lot more, which is still the most 'complete' sounding DAC I've ever heard, and it has thousands of comments at diyaudio.com.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-2496-AK4396-CS8416-DAC-With-Transformer-case-/120747012438
 
You need to put an AD797AR in it though, legit seller here - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2x-Mono-to-Dual-OPAMP-2x-AD797-NE5532-OPA2604-/251146450320

 

[Dsnuts]

This item is new. Looks nice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topping-TP-D1-MKII-MK2-USB-sound-card-CS4398-USB-decoder-External-For-PC-laptop-/261087777716?pt=US_Sound_Card_External&hash=item3cca0b53b4 I am not so sold on these topping dacs but this one looks like a nice slim portable dac to use with laptops.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

This item is new. Looks nice.
 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topping-TP-D1-MKII-MK2-USB-sound-card-CS4398-USB-decoder-External-For-PC-laptop-/261087777716?pt=US_Sound_Card_External&hash=item3cca0b53b4 I am not so sold on these topping dacs but this one looks like a nice slim portable dac to use with laptops.

 
It's also available in the US from PartsExpress.
 
  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-330

 

[kiteki]

This item is new. Looks nice.
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topping-TP-D1-MKII-MK2-USB-sound-card-CS4398-USB-decoder-External-For-PC-laptop-/261087777716?pt=US_Sound_Card_External&hash=item3cca0b53b4 I am not so sold on these topping dacs but this one looks like a nice slim portable dac to use with laptops.

 
 
That does look really nice, I love the cyan and green.  Perhaps I should just make a new thread called "All kinds of Cirrus Logic CS4398's" hehehe.

 

[Dsnuts]

Ya actually maybe a CS4398 thread..There seems to be more and more of these popping up in ebay..
 
I like this design a lot..If I didn't buy 3 new DACs this week I would consider trying this one. Anyone want to take one for the team?

 

[kiteki]

I made a new CS4398 thread.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/635899/cirrus-logic-flagship-club-clfc 
 
 
Let's keep it on-topic to the components and sound.

 

[kiteki]

Despite the good looks of the Topping TP-D1 MKII, and that I'd like to compare it to my desktop DAC, I just bought a Sony Z1070 with leather case and new amplifier plus more, so I don't really need it, sorry. =]

 

[Dsnuts]

I own a Z1060. Love my Z1060. This through my bravo amp is one amazing combo. Ya I am with you there. I just got that AUNE T1. That Hifimediy Sabre dac and this little cheap $19 DAC. Yes I had to try it cus it was $19 shipped.

I don't expect miracles but hey If my Bravo amp can make a Clip sound as amazing as it does this little DAC should do something for $19 Supporting a PCM2704. Sorry to get off topic.
 
I suppose I got really lucky with the 2 fire phoenix I bought. Though on the 2nd one I made sure those guys gave me a good one..I have been doing a lot of research on dac/amps as of late thanks to this thread actually. I have learned a lot. Somehow I see myself collecting many different dacs with different chips. Lol.

 

[bsoontan]

Hey there, just got the Shiyun DAC-05 and am wondering which would be better, Creative Titanium HD-(optical)->Shiyun DAC-05-->SA-31 or Desktop-(optical)->Shiyun DAC-05-->SA-31. Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[kiteki]

..I have been doing a lot of research on dac/amps as of late thanks to this thread actually. I have learned a lot. Somehow I see myself collecting many different dacs with different chips. Lol.

 
 
Even if the Fire Phoenix can't be held to a pedestal due to quality control issues, the angel of cirrus falls through the clouds and opens up pandoras enchantment for you.
 
 
The rainbow of audio perfection never appeared so close, in light golden overtones the angel whispers to spend all you can, and soon you'll have the triumvirate of sonic perfection in your silk woven gloves, sounding so real it smells like nail polish.

 

[Dsnuts]

So I am debating if I should try out some Op amps on my fire phoenix. Just as I was thinking this. I threw on one of my older headphones My HD595.
 
Damn guys I don't know what to say. The sound is pure class. I don't know if I need to change anything about what I am hearing right now. I know there has been a few lemons on these DACs. It is a shame too as this DAC is just throwing out a sound that just works for me. Every headphone I own I can throw on here and it drives them to the fullest..I know changing up op amps can give me better or worse sound but I think I will just stick to the stock configuration on the FP. I have my bravo tube amp and my AUNE T1 I can mess with different tubes. But for now. I am happy as a clam with the sound. Makes me want to try out some of the other CS4398 DAC/AMPs..If $90 can get me this kind of sound. I hate to think what a $200 or a $300 one would sound like.
 
One tip for you guys that got these. I know burn in is something that has to be done on new units. I am telling every single one of you guys. These DACs need solid burn in for them to really shine. My FP just sounds fantastic..Better than I have heard it before. I just keep on getting impressed by the sound.. Keep the DACs playing some tunes.  I am gonna guess around a week worth of usage. Happy listening everyone and I hope for the guys that got lemons. You guys get to hear these at their best. It will be worth the long wait..