Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread

[Kiats]

Could you reach them on the phone or drop by their show room at The Adelphi?

I am going through the retailer. Yes, it appears I will have to go personally. Which is rather sad, isn’t it? I had similar problems when my Stax X9K had driver imbalance. And it took them almost 5 months. And even then, it was cos the retailer chased them ruthlessly. Project Perfection (owned by the Dita team) is a parody of that name. No wonder FIR ripped out the Authorised Dealership for Asia from them! Disgraceful! Such hubris!

To give context, they sent two degraded ear pads in a row! Not one, but two!

 

[hoofman]

I am going through the retailer. Yes, it appears I will have to go personally. Which is rather sad, isn’t it? I had similar problems when my Stax X9K had driver imbalance. And it took them almost 5 months. And even then, it was cos the retailer chased them ruthlessly. Project Perfection (owned by the Dita team) is a parody of that name. No wonder FIR ripped out the Authorised Dealership for Asia from them! Disgraceful! Such hubris!

To give context, they sent two degraded ear pads in a row! Not one, but two!

That is sad. I hope they help you to resolve the issue asap

 

[Kiats]

That is sad. I hope they help you to resolve the issue asap

I am not hopeful. Project Perfection and Dita are pretty well known over in Singapore for the less than stellar customer care. Which is why i refused to pick up the Final D8000 Special Edition. i have fond memories of Takai San and his genius, and giving spirit and kindness whenever I used to meet him at meets. Sadly, his memory is now sullied by the callous authorised dealer Final Audio has deemed fit to inflict on us in Singapore.

As I said, caveat emptor to anyone who buys anything from Projection Perfection. No respect for their dealers or the customers who feed them and fill their pockets.

 

[kmmbd]

Yesterday @Hooga and I had a highly informative chat with Final Audio representatives over at the High End Munich 2023. Final is offering a first look at their new flagship, the X8000, but it's literally the first "look" as these are not to listened to... yet.

The tuning isn't final, pardon the pun, but will be by the end of the year, approximately Q3 or beginning of Q4. The design, however, is what you see here. The finish might change to a mirror-finish (i.e. similar to A8000) but that's about it. The earpads are silicone too, if you are wondering, and they are like that for a reason.

While we couldn't listen to them, the reps were willing to get into the design details and some reasons as to why this is their new flagship and a game-changer.

• Incredibly light weight shell which is a mix of stainless steel and a probably the toughest Titanium alloy available (which requires special ordering). The magnet array is suspended by this Titanium alloy cage and the entire magnet assembly + diaphragm is much thinner compared to the usual planar magnetic offerings. This is also the reason why they have to use custom cable connectors that match the thin housing. All of these result in a 220g weight, which is perhaps the lightest planar flagship out there.
• The headband is also a unique stainless steel shape-memory alloy. They did not divulge much information about this but only mentioned that it needed custom formulation.
• Then we get to the drivers. The details we got: planar magnetic driver, only air-film damping is used, with no usual damping materials put in the front or back of the driver. The final product should have a protective mesh in front to keep dust and debris out, which will be acoustically transparent.
• The earpads are silicone and are shaped like that to contour around the ears rather than being "on ear". The driver housing being much smaller than usual, this was the solution they came up with. I put it on and had one of my colleagues try it as well, and the comfort was an absolute non-issue. The clamp was slightly high but nothing uncomfortable. The top headband doesn't really deal with much weight and is not supposed to have any leather or foam materials on top.
• The sound is supposed to be on a very different level from the D8000 Pro LE. I asked if it is similar to the Yamaha YH-5000SE and the answer was basically "it's so much better". It was hinted that these are better than even a properly driven Stax SR-X9000. Well, quite a bold claim.

Of course we couldn't hear them, so all of the aforementioned snippets are from the reps themselves. We will get to know more once these come out. Price will be above 5000 euros, but most likely will fall in the 6000 euros price bracket (Stax SR-X9000 pricing, basically). So definitely targeted at the summit-fi market. Kinda bummer for sure, but it is what it is.

 

[mochill]

Yesterday @Hooga and I had a highly informative chat with Final Audio representatives over at the High End Munich 2023. Final is offering a first look at their new flagship, the X8000, but it's literally the first "look" as these are not to listened to... yet.

The tuning isn't final, pardon the pun, but will be by the end of the year, approximately Q3 or beginning of Q4. The design, however, is what you see here. The finish might change to a mirror-finish (i.e. similar to A8000) but that's about it. The earpads are silicone too, if you are wondering, and they are like that for a reason.

While we couldn't listen to them, the reps were willing to get into the design details and some reasons as to why this is their new flagship and a game-changer.

• Incredibly light weight shell which is a mix of stainless steel and a probably the toughest Titanium alloy available (which requires special ordering). The magnet array is suspended by this Titanium alloy cage and the entire magnet assembly + diaphragm is much thinner compared to the usual planar magnetic offerings. This is also the reason why they have to use custom cable connectors that match the thin housing. All of these result in a 220g weight, which is perhaps the lightest planar flagship out there.
• The headband is also a unique stainless steel shape-memory alloy. They did not divulge much information about this but only mentioned that it needed custom formulation.
• Then we get to the drivers. The details we got: planar magnetic driver, only air-film damping is used, with no usual damping materials put in the front or back of the driver. The final product should have a protective mesh in front to keep dust and debris out, which will be acoustically transparent.
• The earpads are silicone and are shaped like that to contour around the ears rather than being "on ear". The driver housing being much smaller than usual, this was the solution they came up with. I put it on and had one of my colleagues try it as well, and the comfort was an absolute non-issue. The clamp was slightly high but nothing uncomfortable. The top headband doesn't really deal with much weight and is not supposed to have any leather or foam materials on top.
• The sound is supposed to be on a very different level from the D8000 Pro LE. I asked if it is similar to the Yamaha YH-5000SE and the answer was basically "it's so much better". It was hinted that these are better than even a properly driven Stax SR-X9000. Well, quite a bold claim.

Of course we couldn't hear them, so all of the aforementioned snippets are from the reps themselves. We will get to know more once these come out. Price will be above 5000 euros, but most likely will fall in the 6000 euros price bracket (Stax SR-X9000 pricing, basically). So definitely targeted at the summit-fi market. Kinda bummer for sure, but it is what it is.

Damn , I thought these would be an affordable d8000

 

[Cheradenine]

Yesterday @Hooga and I had a highly informative chat with Final Audio representatives over at the High End Munich 2023. Final is offering a first look at their new flagship, the X8000, but it's literally the first "look" as these are not to listened to... yet.

The tuning isn't final, pardon the pun, but will be by the end of the year, approximately Q3 or beginning of Q4. The design, however, is what you see here. The finish might change to a mirror-finish (i.e. similar to A8000) but that's about it. The earpads are silicone too, if you are wondering, and they are like that for a reason.

While we couldn't listen to them, the reps were willing to get into the design details and some reasons as to why this is their new flagship and a game-changer.

• Incredibly light weight shell which is a mix of stainless steel and a probably the toughest Titanium alloy available (which requires special ordering). The magnet array is suspended by this Titanium alloy cage and the entire magnet assembly + diaphragm is much thinner compared to the usual planar magnetic offerings. This is also the reason why they have to use custom cable connectors that match the thin housing. All of these result in a 220g weight, which is perhaps the lightest planar flagship out there.
• The headband is also a unique stainless steel shape-memory alloy. They did not divulge much information about this but only mentioned that it needed custom formulation.
• Then we get to the drivers. The details we got: planar magnetic driver, only air-film damping is used, with no usual damping materials put in the front or back of the driver. The final product should have a protective mesh in front to keep dust and debris out, which will be acoustically transparent.
• The earpads are silicone and are shaped like that to contour around the ears rather than being "on ear". The driver housing being much smaller than usual, this was the solution they came up with. I put it on and had one of my colleagues try it as well, and the comfort was an absolute non-issue. The clamp was slightly high but nothing uncomfortable. The top headband doesn't really deal with much weight and is not supposed to have any leather or foam materials on top.
• The sound is supposed to be on a very different level from the D8000 Pro LE. I asked if it is similar to the Yamaha YH-5000SE and the answer was basically "it's so much better". It was hinted that these are better than even a properly driven Stax SR-X9000. Well, quite a bold claim.

Of course we couldn't hear them, so all of the aforementioned snippets are from the reps themselves. We will get to know more once these come out. Price will be above 5000 euros, but most likely will fall in the 6000 euros price bracket (Stax SR-X9000 pricing, basically). So definitely targeted at the summit-fi market. Kinda bummer for sure, but it is what it is.

That's a gorgeous headphone, light enough to not need a thick headband, I want it, badly.

 

[Kiats]

Yesterday @Hooga and I had a highly informative chat with Final Audio representatives over at the High End Munich 2023. Final is offering a first look at their new flagship, the X8000, but it's literally the first "look" as these are not to listened to... yet.

The tuning isn't final, pardon the pun, but will be by the end of the year, approximately Q3 or beginning of Q4. The design, however, is what you see here. The finish might change to a mirror-finish (i.e. similar to A8000) but that's about it. The earpads are silicone too, if you are wondering, and they are like that for a reason.

While we couldn't listen to them, the reps were willing to get into the design details and some reasons as to why this is their new flagship and a game-changer.

• Incredibly light weight shell which is a mix of stainless steel and a probably the toughest Titanium alloy available (which requires special ordering). The magnet array is suspended by this Titanium alloy cage and the entire magnet assembly + diaphragm is much thinner compared to the usual planar magnetic offerings. This is also the reason why they have to use custom cable connectors that match the thin housing. All of these result in a 220g weight, which is perhaps the lightest planar flagship out there.
• The headband is also a unique stainless steel shape-memory alloy. They did not divulge much information about this but only mentioned that it needed custom formulation.
• Then we get to the drivers. The details we got: planar magnetic driver, only air-film damping is used, with no usual damping materials put in the front or back of the driver. The final product should have a protective mesh in front to keep dust and debris out, which will be acoustically transparent.
• The earpads are silicone and are shaped like that to contour around the ears rather than being "on ear". The driver housing being much smaller than usual, this was the solution they came up with. I put it on and had one of my colleagues try it as well, and the comfort was an absolute non-issue. The clamp was slightly high but nothing uncomfortable. The top headband doesn't really deal with much weight and is not supposed to have any leather or foam materials on top.
• The sound is supposed to be on a very different level from the D8000 Pro LE. I asked if it is similar to the Yamaha YH-5000SE and the answer was basically "it's so much better". It was hinted that these are better than even a properly driven Stax SR-X9000. Well, quite a bold claim.

Of course we couldn't hear them, so all of the aforementioned snippets are from the reps themselves. We will get to know more once these come out. Price will be above 5000 euros, but most likely will fall in the 6000 euros price bracket (Stax SR-X9000 pricing, basically). So definitely targeted at the summit-fi market. Kinda bummer for sure, but it is what it is.

Interesting. However, that is a lot of money to ask for, even if it is technically superlative, if there isn’t the after sales service and support to back it. I no longer have faith in Final Audio‘s approach to customer service. Or the standards they expect from their authorized dealers like Project Perfection (who own Dita and did a collaboration with Final Audio, supplying a poor cable). Things have not been the same since the passing of Takai san. Which saddens a long time fan of Final Audio since I first started the journey with FIBASS, the early Heaven series, the PianoForte series, the Lab series...

As long as there is such poor lackadaisical and contemptuous ”service“ from Project Perfection, and obviously with the acquiescence of Final Audio, all I will say is caveat emptor to Singapore buyers!

Or anywhere in Asia, where Project Perfection, and Dita, represents Final Audio. Just to sell and good luck to you if you need parts or have any after sales issues!

 

[Hooga]

Damn , I thought these would be an affordable d8000

Fwiw, we got told that "we are allowed to hope for X8000 to be the beginning of a series encompassing lower rank models"

The Dx000 (with X < 8) is reportedly not gonna happen.

 

[Kiats]

Interesting. However, that is a lot of money to ask for, even if it is technically superlative, if there isn’t the after sales service and support to back it. I no longer have faith in Final Audio‘s approach to customer service. Or the standards they expect from their authorized dealers like Project Perfection (who own Dita and did a collaboration with Final Audio, supplying a poor cable). Things have not been the same since the passing of Takai san. Which saddens a long time fan of Final Audio since I first started the journey with FIBASS, the early Heaven series, the PianoForte series, the Lab series...

As long as there is such poor lackadaisical and contemptuous ”service“ from Project Perfection, and obviously with the acquiescence of Final Audio, all I will say is caveat emptor to Singapore buyers!

Or anywhere in Asia, where Project Perfection, and Dita, represents Final Audio. Just to sell and good luck to you if you need parts or have any after sales issues!

Fascinatingly, after the posts calling out Project Perfection, there was contact made with the retailer in respect of the twice failed degraded ear pads for the Sonorous X. Both of which came from the Dita boys of Project Perfection. It sort of tells you how old their stock of ear pads must be that not one, but two, were degraded. And there was no checking before handing them to the retailer,

There was suddenly life stirring and Project Perfection promised they would now reach out to Japan to check on availability of new stock! OMG! So, they have been sitting on their fat asses for the past 3 months?!!! Shocking conduct!

Of course, there was no word from the Dita boys at Project Perfection today, even though they had promised to revert today. Well… that is quite typical behavior.

And Final Audio still keeps them as their authorised dealer in Singapore and Asia. Sort of tells customers like us in what kind of regard they hold us….

 

[Layman1]

Fascinatingly, after the posts calling out Project Perfection, there was contact made with the retailer in respect of the twice failed degraded ear pads for the Sonorous X. Both of which came from the Dita boys of Project Perfection. It sort of tells you how old their stock of ear pads must be that not one, but two, were degraded. And there was no checking before handing them to the retailer,

There was suddenly life stirring and Project Perfection promised they would now reach out to Japan to check on availability of new stock! OMG! So, they have been sitting on their fat asses for the past 3 months?!!! Shocking conduct!

Of course, there was no word from the Dita boys at Project Perfection today, even though they had promised to revert today. Well… that is quite typical behavior.

And Final Audio still keeps them as their authorised dealer in Singapore and Asia. Sort of tells customers like us in what kind of regard they hold us….

Is there an official customer service rep from Final here on Head-Fi?
Perhaps it might be worth putting together an email highlighting your experiences, along with notes & facts from anyone else who's had similar experiences with Project Perfection (a sort of protest letter with multiple signatories, so to speak).

Then send that to them, along with a suggestion of 2 or 3 local/regional retailers that you DO all rate? Kirsty Song at Zeppelin for example springs to mind?

Apologies if this is something you have already done! I'm just thinking out loud here..
I'd really hope to see some action from Final regarding this. I guess my idea is about not only raising the issues, but actively proposing some commercially-viable alternatives such that Final will take action. I'm a big Final fan too, and I'd hate to see fellow fans (and great Head-Fi'ers!) like yourself being driven away over this!

 

[pail]

Is the E4000 a huge step in sound quality compared to the E2000? what do you get with the E4000 that the E2000 does not have ?

 

[Hooga]

Is the E4000 a huge step in sound quality compared to the E2000? what do you get with the E4000 that the E2000 does not have ?

Wouldn't call it "huge", yet it's definitely significant.

E4000> E2000 on pretty much everything, and in particular layering, separation, stage depth, bass, vocals.
Treble is probably the sole aspect where a bit of debate may apply: they are way smoother and refined on E4000, E2000's treble however may be considered more energetic, and certainly a tad more airy.

 

[pail]

@Hooga Thank you!

 

[Lakerfreak]

Hi, I have a A8000 with the stock cable. I use it with the Sony WM1AM2 DAP. Will changing the cable to 4.4mm cable from Final improve the sound? Anyone tried it?

 

[Herman]

Hi, I have a A8000 with the stock cable. I use it with the Sony WM1AM2 DAP. Will changing the cable to 4.4mm cable from Final improve the sound? Anyone tried it?

it does with the E5000, so I guess that it will