Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread
post-15605978
Post #9,511 of 9,940

H T T

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
591
Reaction score
196
Joined
May 11, 2013
Posts
591
Likes
196
Well, the F3100 have some of the best vocals under $150, IMHO. One of the very few BA earphones that don't exhibit the plasticky BA timbre like most other single/multi-BA stuff (or at least those not using Sony's custom BA or 64Audio's side-firing ones).They're incredibly good sounding with acoustic tracks and singer/songwriter stuff (listening to Ben Howard on them while typing this haha).

Their biggest issue is the bass roll-off post 70Hz or so and very little bass impact. That sort of limits the kind of genres they're suited for. Another issue (though it can also be a feature depending on your POV) is that the sound signature changes depending on deep/shallow fit. I personally find it the best with very deep fit (using tips a size smaller that I usually do and they go right in and disappear). Other than that, the soundstage is surprisingly wide for such a small IEM, and imaging is better than similarly priced Final E4000. They are also the lightest earphones in this price range and comfort is stellar. The cable, while non-detachable, is very sturdy.

Overall, I recommend them if you know what you're getting into and the limitations it has (mostly bass, and a tad power hungry).

Edit: I forgot to add that they're rather source-sensitive. Feed them something slightly warm with 1Vrms out or so and see them sing. On the LG G7 the upper mids sound stringent while on the QP1R it's absolutely fine.

I was interested in the 3100 for the singer-songwriter genre, but I know I would not tolerate the “deep insertion”. I ended up picking up the fiio FA1. Initial impressions of the FA1 are quite positive for the singer/songwriter genre. vocals are rendered “raw”, where flaws, vibrato, and vocal skill or deficiencies are laid bare. Angst and loneliness are very well portrayed.



Not to derail the thread away from Final, going from memory of my much-loved Heaven IIIs as well as my E3000 and E2000, Final’s house sound is usually stellar with vocals, portraying vocals with sensitive grandeur. What is your opinion of the F3100 vs the E3000? Do you have any experience with the Heaven series?
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: RikudouGoku
post-15605999
Post #9,513 of 9,940

kmmbd

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
301
Reaction score
907
Location
Munich, Germany
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Location
Munich, Germany
Posts
301
Likes
907
Website
medium.com
What is your opinion of the F3100 vs the E3000? Do you have any experience with the Heaven series?
The E3000 midrange is more laid back/recessed but has slightly heftier lower mids. Vocals are far more up-front on the F3100. Bass is more authoritative on the E3000. Soundstage is wider on the E3000 with more space between instruments. Imaging is about similar. I do prefer the treble on the F3100 more as it's rather detailed without sounding grainy.

As for the Heaven series, I've only tried the Heaven IV and I believe the E series have truly surpassed it for the most part.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: Final Audio
post-15606260
Post #9,514 of 9,940

RikudouGoku

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
2,771
Reaction score
4,340
Location
Sweden
Joined
May 24, 2019
Location
Sweden
Posts
2,771
Likes
4,340
Website
docs.google.com
Well, the F3100 have some of the best vocals under $150, IMHO. One of the very few BA earphones that don't exhibit the plasticky BA timbre like most other single/multi-BA stuff (or at least those not using Sony's custom BA or 64Audio's side-firing ones).They're incredibly good sounding with acoustic tracks and singer/songwriter stuff (listening to Ben Howard on them while typing this haha).

Their biggest issue is the bass roll-off post 70Hz or so and very little bass impact. That sort of limits the kind of genres they're suited for. Another issue (though it can also be a feature depending on your POV) is that the sound signature changes depending on deep/shallow fit. I personally find it the best with very deep fit (using tips a size smaller that I usually do and they go right in and disappear). Other than that, the soundstage is surprisingly wide for such a small IEM, and imaging is better than similarly priced Final E4000. They are also the lightest earphones in this price range and comfort is stellar. The cable, while non-detachable, is very sturdy.

Overall, I recommend them if you know what you're getting into and the limitations it has (mostly bass, and a tad power hungry).

Edit: I forgot to add that they're rather source-sensitive. Feed them something slightly warm with 1Vrms out or so and see them sing. On the LG G7 the upper mids sound stringent while on the QP1R it's absolutely fine.

IMG_5023.JPG
Does it fit as deep as the etymotics do? Kinda afraid of using such deep fitting iems lol.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15606315
Post #9,515 of 9,940

RikudouGoku

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
2,771
Reaction score
4,340
Location
Sweden
Joined
May 24, 2019
Location
Sweden
Posts
2,771
Likes
4,340
Website
docs.google.com
ordered the E2000, E3000 and F3100.

Got all the E series now :joy:
 
post-15606352
Post #9,517 of 9,940

kmmbd

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
301
Reaction score
907
Location
Munich, Germany
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Location
Munich, Germany
Posts
301
Likes
907
Website
medium.com
Does it fit as deep as the etymotics do? Kinda afraid of using such deep fitting iems lol.
Nowhere near as invasive as Etymotics haha. Just try them out with tips a size smaller than you usually use once they arrive.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: RikudouGoku
post-15608896
Post #9,518 of 9,940

HuoYuanJia

Previously known as Ultrazino
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
257
Reaction score
393
Location
Germany
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Location
Germany
Posts
257
Likes
393
Website
klauseulenbach.de
As with anything, take measurements with a pinch of salt. But I do really like the A8000, very fast and detailed.
Here is another set of measurements.

final_a8000.png


A little bright tilt in the midrange and some very present treble. Somehow the A8000 manage to dodge sibilance, though. At least for me. Channel balance is great. It's a tuning that excels with Classical music.

final_a8000_fit.png


Here is how the fit can adjust the tonality.

final_a8000_filter.png


Here is a very easy mod to tame the treble: Use the included protection filters and add them over another. It seems that if you use more than one, you can bring the upper midrange down quite a bit. Could be worth experimenting with different materials, too.

Finally, if you want to boost the bass, there is a small vent on the inside. If you block it, the quantity rises immensely (+7dB at ~20Hz).
 
post-15610496
Post #9,520 of 9,940

JohnPham

Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
88
Reaction score
44
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Posts
88
Likes
44
Looking into buying a DAP to pair with my Final B3's and narrowed it down to either the FiiO M11 Pro or the Sony NW-ZX507. Has anyone here have experience with either of these DAP's with the B3? From what I read, I hear that the M11 pro is more on the brighter side while the ZX507 is more lush/warm. Any input is appreciated!
 
     Share This Post       
post-15610565
Post #9,521 of 9,940

AlexRv

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
246
Reaction score
157
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Posts
246
Likes
157
Hello everyone,
Currently I'm planning to buy a new pair of IEM & Final Audio A8000 is one of the serious contender among my wish list, so I'd like anyone of you to share your thoughts and/or recommendation for me to make my decision more easily.
Gears that I'm using and owned:
Sony ZX2 player (daily use)
ATH ESW11Ltd / CK100PRO (daily use)
Chord HUGO 1 (occasionally use)
ATH W3000ANV (occasionally use)
iBasso DX100 player (still own but long time no use)
ATH CKR100 (owned & have sold) / CK100 (owned but dead now) / Sennheiser Momentum (owned but dead now)
Music I listen:
J-Pop + Anime (30%): Ayumi Hamasaki, Nishino Kana, YUI, Nana Mizuki, LiSA, Luna Haruna, Yukari Tamura, Eir Aoi, Kalafina...
Heavy Metal / Hard Rock / EDM / Pop (30%) : BABYMETAL, Wagakki Band, BandMaid, QUEEN, Eagles, U2, Adele, Depeche Mode, YAZOO, MJ, Madonna...+ LIVE Concerts
Classical (20%): Concertos, Symphonies, Choral / Arias
Audiophiles (10%): Jazz + Easy listening + OST
Others (10%): K-Pop / Mandarin Pop / Cantonese Pop...

From above, you could see I've never used or listened Final Audio products & I've not upgrade my gears for quite a while.
Few days ago, I went out to audition some IEMs (using ZX2+ESW11Ltd, all direct drive 3.5mm no AMP used) : CF Solaris (Original & Special version), Sony Z1R, AK t9ie, Fender Ten5, Acoustune 1695TI.
I said to the shop sales that my intention of music taste towards the future maybe put more emphasis on heavy metal + hard rock genre. So I'm looking for an all rounder with bit more emphasis on female vocals, fast speed, good positioning & separation, reasonable good soundstage.
Suprisingly, the Acoustune 1695TI gives me the most natural & comfortable listening experience, Solaris (both version) vocal is too forward and even a bit aggressive that I feel like it mixes up with the music around, AKt9ie is too small to fit in & with Fender Ten5 both give me a bit unnatural sound between the frequency transition. Sony Z1R sounds nice but is just too hungry for power.
Since I've been already spent 3 hours listening all these & before I left, the guy just asked me have you ever heard Final Audio products (That's MOST IMPORTANT why I come up here now), I said nope since from my inception the Final Audio products house sound may not be my cup of tea (though from the past I may have once or twice to want a try, but anyway maybe now is the time). The guy told me Final has a new flagship A8000. But on that day time is no long allowed me to try A8000. So I've spent quite some time last couple of days to read posts & reviews, texts/videos...& my interest of A8000 is getting higher & higher....
I definitely will go out to audition the A8000 in coming weeks, but before that I have a few questions:
1. Is my audition impression for the above gears correct or not, since I doubt my ZX2's circuits & technology just too old to let these new products to shine to its own. Any thoughts? Any real experience??
2. Single-ended 3,5mm vs 4,4mm balanced - It's very obvious I think
3. Upgrade my player also??? - I now very hesitate to buy the Sony WM1A since I'm looking forward to Sony upcoming new flagship player. I've been waiting & waiting for so long....BTW, anyone know any insider news & speculations about this topic?
4. A8000 / AK SP2000Cu or SP2000SS to suit more with the music I listen?? good synergy?? good power?? Any real experience??Any thoughts??
5. A8000 / Fiio M15 combination?? good synergy (mentioned by the sales guys)?? good power?? Any real experience??Any thoughts??
4. Is Sony ZX2's power enough to direct drive the A8000? any real experience?? (My interim solution would be (if i decide to get A8000) still using ZX2 to drive A8000 for mobile use + connected through Chord Hugo 1 for home use, next step get a new player) Any recommendations??
5. I notice 1 or 2 members in this thread own ATH W3000ANV, how the A8000 compares with ATH W3000ANV?? any experience??

I think I should stop here, it's too long for your reading already sorry guys.
Looking forward for anyone's thoughts/recommendations.
Thanks.
p.s. Stay Safe Stay Healthy
I’ll share my thoughts:
1. Sony DAPs have too weak amplification for this IEM.
2. SP2000 with a8k is an awful combo.
3. From delta-sigma daps I like Cayin n6 or n8 as pair to a8k.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15611676
Post #9,522 of 9,940

yazoo123

New Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
39
Reaction score
12
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Posts
39
Likes
12
Thank you all having sharing thoughts about my questions for A8000 so far.
I've also read somewhere else the A8000 would have nice synergy with SP2000, Cayin N8, FiiO M15, Lotoo PAW.
SP2000 seems like over budget for me at the moment.
for N8 & M15, they seems getting very warm after running for a while, and UI for Chinese-vendors players are still not so comprehensive and not responsive as others, I do have the experience owning the iBasso DX100 & DX50 and it makes me hesitation on buying those players, battery life is another issue.
Anyway I still need to audition the A8000 with different combos by myself, unfortunately I'm only available to do it until next Monday soonest.
In the mean time, welcome for any further sharing.
Thanks.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15612006
Post #9,523 of 9,940

jwbrent

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
3,820
Reaction score
1,359
Location
California
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Location
California
Posts
3,820
Likes
1,359
Thank you all having sharing thoughts about my questions for A8000 so far.
I've also read somewhere else the A8000 would have nice synergy with SP2000, Cayin N8, FiiO M15, Lotoo PAW.
SP2000 seems like over budget for me at the moment.
for N8 & M15, they seems getting very warm after running for a while, and UI for Chinese-vendors players are still not so comprehensive and not responsive as others, I do have the experience owning the iBasso DX100 & DX50 and it makes me hesitation on buying those players, battery life is another issue.
Anyway I still need to audition the A8000 with different combos by myself, unfortunately I'm only available to do it until next Monday soonest.
In the mean time, welcome for any further sharing.
Thanks.
I use my A8000 with my five year old AK240SS, state of the art when it was released in 2015. I don’t know how it compares to the SP2000, surely not quite as good, but after spending 3K for the 240SS, I’m not in any hurry to replace it. The A8000 sounds excellent with it!
 
post-15613680
Post #9,524 of 9,940

Jalo

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
3,411
Reaction score
836
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Posts
3,411
Likes
836
I’ll share my thoughts:
2. SP2000 with a8k is an awful combo.
The conventional wisdom has it that you match two pieces of audio equipment from the opposite side of the warm-cold dimension so they can balance each other’s weaknesses out, ie a warm phone with a bright cable or dap, or a bright dap/dac with a warm phone etc. However, the SP2000 is an exception. On the surface, the SP2K may sound bright from causal listening but in fact it is not, the extremely transparent and black background character may initially gives a bright impression), just like the A8K may sound bright (but it never reach sibilance) on causal Listening. however, I find the SP2K/A8K combo reaches a level of sound that is not usually or easily found in audiophile sound let alone in portable audio. It is also surprisingly that the combo did not add to each other’s brightness but together they can reach a level of transparency, realism, musical involvement, and to my critical ears I could not find anymore layers to peel away. It produces more Pure music and less noise than many other combos I have the opportunity to listen to.
 
post-15613773
Post #9,525 of 9,940

Final Audio

Sponsor: Final
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
86
Reaction score
368
Location
Kawasaki, Japan
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Location
Kawasaki, Japan
Posts
86
Likes
368
Website
snext-final.com
These are a PAIN to shoot in macro. Dust everywhere... Fingerprints and dust are impossible to avoid. I use the Campfire Solaris case and pouch to keep them from scratches. I hope that helps...
@HuoYuanJia Isn't that beautiful things are normally more difficult to be taken the best shot? Haha

I am curious about what kind of cloth do you use to wipe the A8000? As Final has a lot of products made into mirror polished finishing, we have been trying a lot of clothes, especially for audio show purposes. The anti-static clothes come with glasses normally work pretty well to prevent dust, but some of them do not work well with fingerprint.

We have tried a lot until we found one which works perfectly with electrostatic and fingerprint. But anti-static clothes is the major direction to go with :)

20200509_145457_HDR.jpg

Another beautiful iem from final audio design , detailed , not bright and natural sounding
Oh @mochill , thank you very much for your support! F7200 next? Haha.

Well, the F3100 have some of the best vocals under $150, IMHO. One of the very few BA earphones that don't exhibit the plasticky BA timbre like most other single/multi-BA stuff (or at least those not using Sony's custom BA or 64Audio's side-firing ones).They're incredibly good sounding with acoustic tracks and singer/songwriter stuff (listening to Ben Howard on them while typing this haha).

Their biggest issue is the bass roll-off post 70Hz or so and very little bass impact. That sort of limits the kind of genres they're suited for. Another issue (though it can also be a feature depending on your POV) is that the sound signature changes depending on deep/shallow fit. I personally find it the best with very deep fit (using tips a size smaller that I usually do and they go right in and disappear). Other than that, the soundstage is surprisingly wide for such a small IEM, and imaging is better than similarly priced Final E4000. They are also the lightest earphones in this price range and comfort is stellar. The cable, while non-detachable, is very sturdy.

Overall, I recommend them if you know what you're getting into and the limitations it has (mostly bass, and a tad power hungry).

Edit: I forgot to add that they're rather source-sensitive. Feed them something slightly warm with 1Vrms out or so and see them sing. On the LG G7 the upper mids sound stringent while on the QP1R it's absolutely fine.

IMG_5023.JPG
@kmmbd Nice shot! And thank you for sharing your opinion!

F-series in the first place is designed to be small for deep insertion. However, we completely understand that some users might worry that the earphone might get into contact with the eardrum or the deeper the earphone goes, the stronger the pressure applied by the eartips to the ear canal which leads to discomfort. Try to play around with the tips. The 5 sizes Type-E eartips supplied are there for a purpose :)

ordered the E2000, E3000 and F3100.

Got all the E series now :joy:
@RikudouGoku Wow, that is quite a big move to grab 3 at once. Thank you for your support!

Here is a very easy mod to tame the treble: Use the included protection filters and add them over another. It seems that if you use more than one, you can bring the upper midrange down quite a bit. Could be worth experimenting with different materials, too.

Finally, if you want to boost the bass, there is a small vent on the inside. If you block it, the quantity rises immensely (+7dB at ~20Hz).
@HuoYuanJia Nice tweak with the filter. I guess Twister6 mentioned that before too. Having a denser filter or double layer or triple layer is blocking away high frequencies because high frequencies are weaker on penetration.

However for the bass boosting tweak, we would not recommend it. As the vent is located right in front of the Beryllium driver which is ultra light and sensitive. Blocking the hole not only change the sound tuning, but actually also limiting the flexibility and speed of the diaphragm itself which will bring negative impact to the layering and transparency perception. We do not think that it is a compromise that you would want to take. :)


The conventional wisdom has it that you match two pieces of audio equipment from the opposite side of the warm-cold dimension so they can balance each other’s weaknesses out, ie a warm phone with a bright cable or dap, or a bright dap/dac with a warm phone etc. However, the SP2000 is an exception. On the surface, the SP2K may sound bright from causal listening but in fact it is not, the extremely transparent and black background character may initially gives a bright impression), just like the A8K may sound bright (but it never reach sibilance) on causal Listening. however, I find the SP2K/A8K combo reaches a level of sound that is not usually or easily found in audiophile sound let alone in portable audio. It is also surprisingly that the combo did not add to each other’s brightness but together they can reach a level of transparency, realism, musical involvement, and to my critical ears I could not find anymore layers to peel away. It produces more Pure music and less noise than many other combos I have the opportunity to listen to.
@Jalo A post full with wisdom. /Thump up. Pairing earphone and player should not be looking into the warm or cold, bright or dark. If player and earphones can be justified so easily, then all products can simply judged by frequency response or tuning. Unfortunately what make a product top of the line is not the tuning, but the sound quality.

But of course, this is quite dependent on what kind of song you are listening, how is the music being mastered, preference and many many factors. The best is always try to test it out if there is the opportunity. And one thing which is very important is different ears, different sounds. How the others hear might not be what you hear.

But of course, we completely understand that pairing 2 TOTL products might not be easy and opinion from the others could be a very good reference.
So I guess what kind of sound are you looking for might be a better direction?

Are you looking for a more tamed sound? Or are you looking for the incredible level of clarity and transparency?
 
Final Stay updated on Final at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://snext-final.com/en/

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 4)

Top