Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread
Mar 13, 2020 at 4:03 PM Post #9,286 of 11,668
Strong agree with the idea. I just need to see if the product is worth the cost after it comes out. Ha!
I like blind purchasing...to a certain extent and price:wink: I bought the Sony N3 and Final E5000 blind, without knowing anything about their sound signature. They still are there, at the top of my collection. I got some Chi-Fi stuff based on reviews, recommendations, etc... they are all gone, excepting the Blon BL-03, which still is very enjoyable in 2020 (deserved hype for the price).

Now, I would be so happy if Final announces an A5000 that could slightly reduce the bass impact of the E5000, while keeping the mids as they are and elevating the treble a bit. Not going too V-shape, more like a slight L-shape and keeping this beautiful tonality with a tad more speed. No need of Beryllium DD or something fancy, just a good tuning and a comfortable fit.

@Final Audio : do you hear me? A5000! ok? ahahahahah, just joking. Nice to have you on the thread btw. Keep up the good work guys.
 
Mar 13, 2020 at 4:16 PM Post #9,288 of 11,668
Where did you hear that? I would love a higher end E-series, but haven’t seen anything concrete yet.
Might be Post n° 9269: "Even though the recent products such as B2, B3 and A8000 are more focused in clarity with thinner lows, Final will never forget those who love our E5000. There are simply too many projects that we are planning, but one day, there will be products that work as the successor of E5000 coming out. :)"
 
Mar 13, 2020 at 8:25 PM Post #9,289 of 11,668
Wait, I was just being away for a day, and you guys left me so much homework to answer o.O
Its ok, special treat, I will spend some time from my weekend to share what I know :)

If someone is interested in my kind of review of the E5000, please have look here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/final-e5000.23161/reviews
@F700 5/5, what an incredible compliment you have given to the E5000. THANK YOU! We are really happy that our E5000 is approved by alien come from an unknown planet called "between drivers". I think it is a very good place for audiophiles!

Hearing that Final Audio is working on a successor to the E5000 is music to my ears.
Heheh, it will happen, but unfortunately, we could not give any promise yet. It is quite unlikely in 2020. For the next 2 years, you can expect us more focusing on A-series and D-series and .... TWS? Shhhh!

An A5000 single DD with a warmish tuning would do. I even would blind purchase it as long as it remains correctly priced, around, let's say, USD 600/700.-?
A-series started with A8000. There are a lot of room for us to play around! We can have A7000, A3000, A1000, or maybe even A569 if we do not have the 000 room anymore. Right?

But sorry that I have no intention to disappoint you, but I also do not want to let you guys expecting too much. The concept of A-series has been fixed to "Transparency". The sound signature of E5000 is quite compromising the series concept. Therefore, yes you can expect a warmer version of A8000, but might not be as warm as the E5000.

Let me explain this. Transparency = clarity + separation + 3D depth perception. The human hearing system has a masking effect which means that, when our ear is exposing to low frequencies, due to the internal structure of our cochlea (please Google around), the mid and high will become less audible. Therefore when the low frequencies are too strong, it is common that clarity starts to be compromised because clarity is strongly affected by highs.

Therefore, to go with the same direction of E5000, there is a possibility to continue with the E series or, even a new series. You know what, Final still has many letters to use. Haha! We love letters. And yes, sorry, we rather spend our time on making good sound than spending time thinking of cool name because the sound is what matters the most to us, and hopefully to you too. :)

I thank @Final Audio. Their perfectionism made these reviews at 9.5/10 scores. https://kulakligim.net/tag/final-audio/

Personally I was sick of ChiFi. Now behold JapFi ❤
@Tamirci Is this Mahir? Oh you are here too! Thank you for sharing your reviews with us! Guys, Tamirci here is working on his own reviewing website and he is generously reviewing our products now. Please share some love and have a visit to his awesome website.

It is written in Turkish, but we have Google Translate now right? There is no language border now with a good tool, just like if there is good sounds and good music, there is no culture border between us. :) It is nice to see people from different part of the world gathering here sharing same interest.

/raise my hand. I am from Japan! To prove this, my IP address is xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx. Haha. I can't wait for the sakura to blossom.

Since @Final Audio is finally (!) active on head-fi, I'd like to ask a question I've been wondering for quite a while: are the micro-dynamic drivers in the E-series IEMs the "same" one across the range? E.g. do E1000/E2000 etc. and E4000/E5000 share the same magnet assembly and diaphragm design?

I do know that the E4000 and E5000 uses an acoustic chamber (kinda like passive radiators in a sense) to enhance the bass response and smoothen the overall FR, but I was wondering if their sonic differences from the other three E series IEM is only due to that chamber design and not any differences in diaphragm material/driver design. I am also really curious to know what the diaphragm material might be since they don't sound like Titanium drivers, rather they have a PET/Biocellulose kind of signature. I do realize how you might not want to disclose some of the information due to R&D secrecy and such so it's understandable if you don't want to share every details.
@kmmbd Wow! Good question, and a tough one huh! Like mentioned before, we design a product based on the series concept. A-series because we need to achieve extreme transparency, we have decided to go with Beryllium because it is light and hard. We are not using Beryllium because it sounds cool, or eye-catching to make easy money. Simple idea, because you want to fix something by applying nails, therefore you need a hammer instead of because you have a cool hammer, and therefore you are adding thousands of nails around your home. (Maybe some people do that?)

So for E-series, Quiz! What is the concept of E-series? Anyone?

So E-series has its own concept. We want to make it cheap, we want to make it sounds good, we want to make it a companion that you can use it for all music genres without fatigue. That is why you find the E-series balanced, neutral and smooth and relaxing. To achieve this, we do not need like super rare material. Rare material is cool for marketing, but when rare material is involved, it means that the cost will go up which in the end, will only limit the number of people who can enjoy the sound.

Yes, we are sorry that A8000 is using rare materal which has caused the high price. But our engineering team is working real hard to work with other material or design, to achieve the same concept but with a lower price. Hopefully, one day we will have some products in the A-series that is affordable by most of the music lover.

Sorry, I am going too far. Ok answering your question. The journey of the E-series started with E3000. So we design a driver with the material and structure on par with the series concept and target cost. So this driver is already perfect for E-series, at least in our point of view. So, the materials for the 6.4mm driver of all the E-series are indeed identical, structural design is also very same but with changes onto dimension.

So to conclude this, could we say all the drivers are the same? Nope. They are more like siblings. If you change the driver of E4000 with E2000, it won't sound the same. Of course, we do not encourage you to do that, because first, it will void the warranty, second, it is quite difficult to achieve the complete internal sealings once opened. :D
 
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Mar 13, 2020 at 10:43 PM Post #9,290 of 11,668
Heheh, it will happen, but unfortunately, we could not give any promise yet. It is quite unlikely in 2020. For the next 2 years, you can expect us more focusing on A-series and D-series and .... TWS? Shhhh!

Well, that all sounds great, especially if you're going to stay with single DD designs. I've yet to see any real TWS that make me want to invest in a pair, but I'd be very curious to see what your teams come up with.

And since you mentioned it, I'd be very interested in a warmer version of the A8000 (a bit more bass, a bit smoother and relaxed mid-to-treble response). An A5000, perhaps? I can only speak for myself, but that might be approaching possible endgame status.

Thank you for sharing some of Final Audio's upcoming concepts. Transparency is always refreshing!
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 4:16 AM Post #9,291 of 11,668
@Final Audio Great to hear there is more coming in the D-series, very curious about that. What are your (Final's) thoughts on/plans for the Piano Forte series? (If any.) I am a lover of classical music and the Piano Forte look like they are ideally suited for that while maintaining a small form factor (rather than moving into open-back headphones), but information about them is very limited. Sadly, I have never found an opportunity to demo them, likely because they are such a niche product.
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 5:40 AM Post #9,292 of 11,668
Final true wireless? I want that! In addition to the ever-fascinating way in which Final approaches tuning, TWS is a field where the brand’s craftsmanship and flair for visual design would prove invaluable.
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 10:50 PM Post #9,293 of 11,668
Decided to get a Final E3000C after learning about how it was the basis of the whole E-series. This has a really laid back and smooth signature and is one of the ultimate "chill-out" IEMs I'd say. Immensely comfortable and I can wear it all day while commuting to boot. Will likely review them in the coming weeks along with the E1000 and F3100 (latter of which surprisingly has no review yet), they all deserve one.

IMG_6622_cr.JPG
 
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Mar 15, 2020 at 2:59 AM Post #9,294 of 11,668
Can't wait to here my new unopened E3000, unfortunately it is in my home town so it will take a while as I am working overseas. My E5000 gets more used than my Sony N3BP and IT03.
 
Mar 16, 2020 at 11:47 AM Post #9,295 of 11,668
Mar 16, 2020 at 1:35 PM Post #9,296 of 11,668
I have the B3. And the E3000 is under its way. I am curious what all the buzz is about. Will let it know, when I have listened these side-by-side!

I already think (and it is a bit tricky to say ofcourse), of all the B series, the B3 should be the one you are after (when you decide to buy one). And yes it is more expensive than the E5000.

But I think (based on reviews and what you wrote earlier 'I still consider E3000 as the most realistic sounding to my ears and the brightest, however it lacks the bass'), the B3 looks like it is not that far from the E3000 signature. To me, the B3 is also very realistic. But compared to the E3000 you should notice more clarity, better instrument sep. and a greater sense of space. I mean, I expected to be! It will be a (next) step-up in the same natural direction -more of less-. And I believe the B3 is also the most centric positioned of the three models in the B-series.

And because I have owned the E5000 already and did a side-by-side last week. The highs of the B3 goes further and de bass goes deeper and is also better controlled as well. The B3 definitely have another bass signature actually. It is what you are after, while the bass of the E5000 is very sweet and softer maybe > less tight, the B3 is more natural and precise, but also meaty enough for rock and EDM for example. It's impact in the bassregion is really nice and textured.

But, verrrry long story short haha, I haven't listening to the E3000 yet (and it is already on market for some time already. Looking forward to it and we will see! :) The diff between them al already there because we are talking about a BA vs DD type of sound. I hope it is praised for it's oustanding performance (price/perf considered as well).

Thanks Sunova!


I am listening the E3000c right now. First impressions are really good!! Damnnn, I am enjoying it already better than the E5000 actually. But that is personal ofcourse and from memory. It is not that warm (but don't me wrong, the E5000 is awesome as well!).

But I can here already that it is nicely balanced and crisp. It is a little lighter overall and little slower attack maybe, compared to the B3. But, first I am gonna listen longer for side-by-side. But I think it is damn good indeed!!
 
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Mar 17, 2020 at 2:17 AM Post #9,297 of 11,668
Well, that all sounds great, especially if you're going to stay with single DD designs. I've yet to see any real TWS that make me want to invest in a pair, but I'd be very curious to see what your teams come up with.

And since you mentioned it, I'd be very interested in a warmer version of the A8000 (a bit more bass, a bit smoother and relaxed mid-to-treble response). An A5000, perhaps? I can only speak for myself, but that might be approaching possible endgame status.

Thank you for sharing some of Final Audio's upcoming concepts. Transparency is always refreshing!
Yes, I am personally very looking forward to the TWS series too.

As explained multiple times before, A8000 is designed to the current form to achieve the maximum potential of a Beryllium driver by delivering exceptional transparency and it happens that a lot of people are loving it so much. The quantity sold is completely exceeding our expectations.

However, we do see a lot more possibilities under this series, therefore a warmer version is definitely a possible option. However, it is not interesting at all just to re-tuned and make it another model, pushing down the cost and the retail price is also one of our major concerns. We have no intention to sell our products expensive but to make something great, sometimes there is simply a lot of costs involved. Unfortunately, pushing down the cost has never been easy, and coronavirus has indeed brought some impact to our work routine, therefore please allow our engineers to have some time to finally bring another awesome product to the community.

@Final Audio Great to hear there is more coming in the D-series, very curious about that. What are your (Final's) thoughts on/plans for the Piano Forte series? (If any.) I am a lover of classical music and the Piano Forte look like they are ideally suited for that while maintaining a small form factor (rather than moving into open-back headphones), but information about them is very limited. Sadly, I have never found an opportunity to demo them, likely because they are such a niche product.
Piano Forte series, erm.... I cannot promise anything about that because Piano Forte series is a legend. :D If we want to do something like that, we would have to do something as legendary. We have released the limited edition titanum 3D printed Lab II a few years ago, and to have another new one, we definitely needs some more time for us to get new ideas. But, it is definitely not under our priority. Sorry.

Final Lab II & Piano Forte
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Final true wireless? I want that! In addition to the ever-fascinating way in which Final approaches tuning, TWS is a field where the brand’s craftsmanship and flair for visual design would prove invaluable.
We are actually having multiple TWS project running parallely for different audience. I will share more information about this when I am allowed to.

Decided to get a Final E3000C after learning about how it was the basis of the whole E-series. This has a really laid back and smooth signature and is one of the ultimate "chill-out" IEMs I'd say. Immensely comfortable and I can wear it all day while commuting to boot. Will likely review them in the coming weeks along with the E1000 and F3100 (latter of which surprisingly has no review yet), they all deserve one.
Thank you for reading and believing what I have shared over here and I am really glad that the E3000 did not dissapoint you. A flagship sound brought into a consumer range product sounds awesome right?

E5000 review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/final-e5000.23161/reviews#item-review-23392

Dont know if the burn in did anything or if it is because I have used BA only iems for a while now, but the E5000 sounds very good to me now (I prefer DD or Hybrids with DD, so I feel more at "home" with this than my BA only iems)
Thank you @RikudouGoku for your time and effort and the share of love. When I look into our product slate, all the upcoming products are featuring Dynamic driver and Planar Magnetic driver. Hope that you are going to like it. :)
 
Mar 17, 2020 at 3:09 AM Post #9,298 of 11,668
talking about the Piano Fortes and the Lab, anyone compared them to the A8000 yet?
 
Mar 17, 2020 at 3:22 AM Post #9,299 of 11,668
talking about the Piano Fortes and the Lab, anyone compared them to the A8000 yet?
Piano Forte cannot be compared to any other headphones, iem in the world, they are so special that you either love them or rather don't like them
for me it is primarily the best vocal from all headphones in the world hehe
the soundstage is huge and natural, they are really unique
 
Mar 17, 2020 at 3:26 AM Post #9,300 of 11,668
talking about the Piano Fortes and the Lab, anyone compared them to the A8000 yet?

Like other said, those other models are more Artistic statements rather than a reference to compare other devices to.

 
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