Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread

[jwbrent]

Does the final FI-BA-SS/SST still attract any attention?

 

[zilkhaw]

Technically, physiology is still bound by physics as is the biochemistry that gives rise to psychology. No part of the system can operate outside of physics. Perhaps what they meant to say was the sound producing system's characteristics (FR, tuning, dynamic range, etc.)?

From what I understand from the document is Final believe that a same earphone or headphone sounds different to different people. Therefore a headphone A might sound great to user A but not for user B. And the reason is affected by multiple causes such as age, personal preference, mood and of course psychological causes such as its look, presentation, price and etc.

 

[Wyville]

Technically, physiology is still bound by physics as is the biochemistry that gives rise to psychology. No part of the system can operate outside of physics. Perhaps what they meant to say was the sound producing system's characteristics (FR, tuning, dynamic range, etc.)?

This touches on a fascinating topic (at least I think so ) that I won't go into too much because it would completely derail the thread, but there is a lot to be said about the reduction of psychology and even biology down to physics. Personally, I do not consider it possible to develop a physical theory (mathematically elegant) on either the brain/mind or biology. But that is a whole different discussion of course.

In this case it is simply what @zilkhaw explains below. Different people will perceive the same IEMs differently because of physiological and psychological differences. Every human ear is uniquely shaped and "wired" (neurologically) and sound is processed uniquely as well.

A manufacturer can control everything up to the point that the sound wave leaves the monitor, after that the perception of the music becomes contingent on things like the shape of the ear, age of the person, particular neurological makeup, etc, even a person's mood can play a role. Final address this (to some extend) by simply allowing a customer's own input to be taken into account by allowing a customer to build and tune their own IEMs. I think it is quite an innovative way to do it and a step further than adding things such as screw-in filter options. That is why Final makes those distinctions.

You can make the best quality chocolate ice cream in the world, but it won't make a difference if the person eating it simply does not like the taste of chocolate (however improbable).

From what I understand from the document is Final believe that a same earphone or headphone sounds different to different people. Therefore a headphone A might sound great to user A but not for user B. And the reason is affected by multiple causes such as age, personal preference, mood and of course psychological causes such as its look, presentation, price and etc.

 

[davidmolliere]

Technically, physiology is still bound by physics as is the biochemistry that gives rise to psychology. No part of the system can operate outside of physics. Perhaps what they meant to say was the sound producing system's characteristics (FR, tuning, dynamic range, etc.)?

Except we can't explain phychology with a mechanistic approach, you can try to explain the brain by biochemistry and physics, all you'll do is be able to isolate a few variable at a time (like when I read, this part of the brain is activated, when I am in danger, this and this part of the brain does this, when I listen to music this and this happens in the brain... ) and this is actionnable to some extent for understanding and even therapy but that won't get you anywhere close to understanding the whole system and why people hear differently aside from physiological and physical characteristics.

The brain is the most complex system of complex systems (100 billions neurons, there are theoretically more possible neural connections in the brain than there are atoms in the universe...), there is a lot we need to learn before we really know how it works. Final Paper is interesting because it draws the line between things we can scientifically understand at this point and to which realm it applies and things that are much more complex and still belongs to perception in the brain which is influenced by many factors some of them unknown yet.

 

[zilkhaw]

As I have seen some people who are interested in MAKE series have been asking about the delivery out from Japan through Final's Online Direct Shop, I sent an inquiry to Final yesterday asking about the possibility.

Final's representative replied to me this morning. The reply was pretty long in Japanese but I am going to try my best to summarize those important points that they are trying to tell me.

"As a very fresh concept on earphones which allow the users to make their own tuning, before selling the product to customers, Final had considered about how well can they support the customers on the after-sales services such as help on tuning. With the current resources that Final's have, a painful decision has to be made to limit this amazing project within regions which is near to Japan only at the current stage. However, all the experience earned from Japan, China and Hongkong are going to serve them as a major source of confidence to push the upcoming models to more regions in the world."

Even though the reply is disappointing, but I do appreciate how Final's making this decision by considering more on customer possible need rather than just focus on selling the product and give 0 support after getting the money. I have seen Final's have been holding 2 or 3 MAKE series free consultation meeting over here for MAKE series owners.

From the experience shared by some of the users over here, I think people who want to buy the MAKE series maybe can try to purchase them though 3rd party purchasing service such as

https://www.tenso.com/
https://zenmarket.jp/

and maybe others. I am not trying to advertise any of the services mentioned above, the information is collected from the experience shared by some users over the last few pages.

 

[Dobrescu George]

From my mails with them, I also understand that they're not expecting to sell the Make outside of Japan for now, but (I may be wrong) it seems like there will be something for the Global market soon

 

[monsieurfromag3]

As I have seen some people who are interested in MAKE series have been asking about the delivery out from Japan through Final's Online Direct Shop, I sent an inquiry to Final yesterday asking about the possibility.

Final's representative replied to me this morning. The reply was pretty long in Japanese but I am going to try my best to summarize those important points that they are trying to tell me.

"As a very fresh concept on earphones which allow the user to make their own tuning, before selling the product to customers, Final had considered about how well can they support the customers on the after-sales services such as help on tuning. With the current resources that Final's have, a painful decision has to be made to limit this amazing project within regions which is near to Japan only at the current stage. However, all the experience earned from Japan, China and Hongkong are going to serve them as a major source of confidence to push the upcoming models to more regions in the world."

Even though the reply is disappointing, but I do appreciate how Final's making this decision by considering more on customer possible need rather than just focus on selling the product and give 0 support after getting the money. I have seen Final's have been holding 2 or 3 MAKE series free consultation meeting over here for MAKE series owners.

From the experience shared by some of the users over here, I think people who want to buy the MAKE series maybe can try to purchase them though 3rd party purchasing service such as

https://www.tenso.com/
https://zenmarket.jp/

and maybe others. I am not trying to advertise any of the services mentioned above, the information is collected from the experience shared by some users over the last few pages.

Thanks for this post and for all of the info you’ve been providing throughout this thread @zilkhaw

I hope Final manage to improve their distribution network - M***drop drops never deliver to Europe, their direct shop is for Asia (or is it Japan?) only, and a great shop in Paris where I bought my Pandora Hope VI just told me Final have no distributor in France at the moment, which makes trading with them really complicated.
In this instance it seems they’re learning how to market the MAKE series domestically before going worldwide with a super-tunable product, which makes perfect sense; I just hope that prototype will indeed yield a product I can lay my hands and ears on sometime down the line.

 

[davidmolliere]

In this instance it seems they’re learning how to market the MAKE series domestically before going worldwide with a super-tunable product, which makes perfect sense; I just hope that prototype will indeed yield a product I can lay my hands and ears on sometime down the line.

Since you're in Paris, drop by at a meetup and you can have an audition of my Make 2

 

[Alphasoixante]

I just noticed that Audio46 is running a sale on a few Final models:

E5000
E4000
Sonorous III
Sonorous VI

https://audio46.com/product-category/by-brand/final-audio/

 

[F700]

Owning the E5000 since a few weeks now, I like their laid-back yet detailled sound signature. Coupled with a ZX300/Q5-AM3B combo with an OC Studio Zeus UE X in 4.4mm, the E5000 gets a bit brighter and generous in the treble, which is very welcome with a few tracks and some music genres. I am amazed by this IEM. Incredible imaging and separation, powerful and clear sound. OC Studio actually made an amazing work here with the aftermarket 4.4mm silver Zeus UE X. Final Audio products are not the cheapest, but quality is top notch. Beside the E5000, I own the full size Sonorous VI and X. They sound very different, but their signatures and built quality are just stunning, especially the X.

 

[davidmolliere]

@F700 Beautiful cable

Thanks for sharing that pairing as well, those E5000 are really amazing value for money

I tried them with the Hansound Zen 8 wire, it brought a bit more authority down low and opened them up a bit brining a bit of air between instruments, not to mention better layering.

 

[Dobrescu George]

I am still impressed every day by E5000 and their sound! Have also been doing some comparisons between E5000 and other IEMs, and nothing else didn't have that lush-thickness with that lifefull sound they present, it is quite a unique tuning that's quite only presented by them

 

[jwbrent]

I just received the final Sonorous IV, very nice headphones. It has a sound on the top end that reminds me of the FI-BA-SS. Since this is a hybrid headphone with a proprietary BA for the highs, I wonder if it’s the same one used in the fibass.

 

[Tenashus1]

I am still impressed every day by E5000 and their sound! Have also been doing some comparisons between E5000 and other IEMs, and nothing else didn't have that lush-thickness with that lifefull sound they present, it is quite a unique tuning that's quite only presented by them

The very best I've heard.

 

[F700]

I share your point George Dobrescu, although I haven't tried TOTL DD IEM so far. I am more into full size headphones. The experience with the Sonys Z5 and N3ap made me wanting for more. Now, I am a Final Audio fanboy. This IEM just gave me right pursuing the Final Audio way. The aforementioned IEMs are still mid-fi material. I am now wondering what the top-tier have to offer. I heard that EE LX, Solaris, IER-Z1R and some others are bringing the game to a whole another level. What?! If the E5000 already are giving me so much pleasure, goosebumps and addiction to my music, going up the ladder seems inevitable.... I cannot bring my Final Sonorous X in the office Anyway, for EUR 249.- this IEM is a beast, able to bring romantic, cosy sound and detailed, impressive separation/imaging together. Stock cable is good actually, especially for the price. The OC Studio Zeus UE X works perfectly with it, sharpening the top-end a bit, giving just a hint of extra air where needed.

Final is apparently preparing an E8000, which is a non-customizable MAKE-Serie sibling. Priced at approx. USD 1'500.-, I am looking forward to reading some comparison with the top-tier competition in a near future