[howdy]

Yes, it has to. There is no other way to convert the digital to analogue on the X7.

The question should be ‘does Tidal bypass the Android SRC?’ if I’m interpreting your question correctly.

Thanks!
There has been big debates about the Onkyo DP-X1 using the Sabre DACs and it has been said that it does not that it uses the chip with the processor (SoC).

 

[x RELIC x]

Thanks!
There has been big debates about the Onkyo DP-X1 using the Sabre DACs and it has been said that it does not that it uses the chip with the processor.

Yeah, I’ve read all of them on the DP-X1 thread and I can’t understand where the myth came from. The DP-X1 has to use the dual 9018k2m Sabre DACs according to the SoC it uses. I think all the confusion/debate comes from being able to bypass Android SRC (software/OS issue) vs actually using the hardware and not knowing the difference.

There is nowhere in the Snapdragon 801 SoC white paper or specs that say it has a DAC or that it is capable of converting digital to analogue. Why people go on and on over there about it is dumbfounding to me. The one quoted email from Onkyo reads more like a typical large corporation help desk not knowing the inner workings of the device to provide an accurate answer. The mentioned vague reply from Onkyo was ambiguous at best, lol.

Back to the X7, yes, it uses the Sabre DAC for all audio output.

 

[howdy]

Yeah, I’ve read all of them on the DP-X1 thread and I can’t understand where the myth came from. The DP-X1 has to use the dual 9018k2m Sabre DACs according to the SoC it uses. I think all the confusion/debate comes from being able to bypass Android SRC (software/OS issue) vs actually using the hardware and not knowing the difference.

There is nowhere in the Snapdragon 801 SoC white paper or specs that say it has a DAC or that it is capable of converting digital to analogue. Why people go on and on over there about it is dumbfounding to me. The one quoted email from Onkyo reads more like a typical large corporation help desk not knowing the inner workings of the device to provide an accurate answer. The mentioned vague reply from Onkyo was ambiguous at best, lol.

Back to the X7, yes, it uses the Sabre DAC for all audio output.

Yeah I knew you kept up with that thread too. I love my DP-X1 but love the sound of this one to. Its still new to me as I just bought the X7ii few weeks back.
Yeah, processors do have the SoCs that are able to convert the sound and I'm glad none of these DAPs have this done by 3rd party apps.

 

[x RELIC x]

Yeah, processors do have the SoCs that are able to convert the sound

Some do, not all.

 

[saj2001ind]

I thought all apps except fiio music/ neutron/ poweramp/ Hiby downsample to 48 khz as per android policy?

So if I use hiby music player then I should get same quality as fiio music player ?

 

[superuser1]

Neutron and Poweramp (?) do not downsample for sure. I am not certain about HibyMusic, apologies.

 

[LamerDeluxe (tm)]

Neutron doesn't resample if you set it to use the frequency of the source material.

Poweramp, however, doesn't recognize the DAC in the X7II, it plays 44.1KHz material at 48KHz (using the OpenSL ES Output, Native Android audio API). I haven't tried 192KHz on it yet. I have the paid version of PowerAmp and am running the Beta version. This Beta version does recognize the DAC in my HTC phone and will play upto 192KHz/24Bit on the wired headset using the experimental Hi-Res output option. On the X7II the Hi-Res option will only play through a USB DAC.

EDIT: I've just tried it with a 192KHz/24Bit FLAC file and using the OpenGL ES / Native Optimized Output option it still plays at 48KHz/16Bit. Not only that, but it cannot handle the file over that output, it plays half a second, then half a second silence and so on. This is with the fastest resampling option enabled and high performance selected in the FiiO settings. The Java based output does play the file, but it is still resampled to 48KHz/16Bit.
I unfortunately cannot recommend getting Poweramp for the X7II until the developer supports its DAC.

 

[x RELIC x]

Neutron doesn't resample if you set it to use the frequency of the source material.

Poweramp, however, doesn't recognize the DAC in the X7II, it plays 44.1KHz material at 48KHz (using the OpenSL ES Output, Native Android audio API). I haven't tried 192KHz on it yet. I have the paid version of PowerAmp and am running the Beta version. This Beta version does recognize the DAC in my HTC phone and will play upto 192KHz/24Bit on the wired headset using the experimental Hi-Res output option. On the X7II the Hi-Res option will only play through a USB DAC.

EDIT: I've just tried it with a 192KHz/24Bit FLAC file and using the OpenGL ES / Native Optimized Output option it still plays at 48KHz/16Bit. Not only that, but it cannot handle the file over that output, it plays half a second, then half a second silence and so on. This is with the fastest resampling option enabled and high performance selected in the FiiO settings. The Java based output does play the file, but it is still resampled to 48KHz/16Bit.
I unfortunately cannot recommend getting Poweramp for the X7II until the developer supports its DAC.

The DAC simply sees the bitstream it is fed. It’s what the app does before it sends the bitstream to the DAC that determines if the sampling rate will be played at its native sampling rate or not. This is different than using language that says the app doesn’t recognize the DAC. It’s up to the app developer to either bypass Android’s SRC and send the original sampling rate which happens before it is sent to the DAC.

It would be more helpful to say you won’t recommend Poweramp until the developer bypasses Android’s SRC, which is entirely an OS/software issue. This has nothing to do with the DAC hardware support, and this is exactly why people mistakenly think the ESS DAC won’t be used in the X7.

 

[LamerDeluxe (tm)]

The DAC simply sees the bitstream it is fed. It’s what the app does before it sends the bitstream to the DAC that determines if the sampling rate will be played at its native sampling rate or not. This is different than using language that says the app doesn’t recognize the DAC. It’s up to the app developer to either bypass Android’s SRC and send the original sampling rate which happens before it is sent to the DAC.

It would be more helpful to say you won’t recommend Poweramp until the developer bypasses Android’s SRC, which is entirely an OS/software issue. This has nothing to do with the DAC hardware support, and this is exactly why people mistakenly think the ESS DAC won’t be used in the X7.

The experimental Hi-Res audio support in Poweramp only supports a subset of Android devices and will display the name of the DAC variant it has found on the host hardware.

Poweramp alpha2 actually implements multiple Hi-Res variants:

- Snapdragon variant (LG/Sony/HTC devices). (Btw. many Snapdragon-based devices actually has Hi-Res capable hardware (e.g. latest Nexuses), but it's disabled in software)

- Samsung UHQA variant (it's a separate codepath even on Samsung Snapdragon-based devices)

- Sony Hi-Res variant (96khz only, Sony can also do 192khz in Snapdragon-variant mode - without DVC)

- MTK variant

- USB DAC variant (external Hi-Res DACs)

The DVC option is supported on some devices (Samsungs, Sonys, MTKs, USB DACs), but not on others (HTCs, LGs)

Poweramp doesn't recognize the DAC in the X7II, because the developer hasn't added support for it, so it doesn't enable its play-back frequencies and bit depths. It is up to the developer to properly support the X7II the way FiiO recommends, which could be through the generic driver the way Neutron does.
The developer doesn't have to bypass Android's SRC, because FiiO removed it. Poweramp is doing its own resampling, because it doesn't recognize the host hardware as being able to play at other frequencies than 48Khz.

 

[superbike999]

Depends a lot on what app you're using and how.

I am not sure, and @FiiO should confirm if any third apps do downsampling, but AFAIK that shouldn't happen in most of cases. I am not very sure if the streaming service does any either, but I have been learning about Streaming from my PC as well recently, so I'll experiment a bit and report back when I get to some conclusive results.

More SNR George. Brooko will be after you

 

[13-7]

The Poweramp alpha actually MIGHT work on rooted X7IIs if you modify some entries in build.prop.

Keep in in mind, though, that even if it does, it still isn't able to follow source frequency at this stage, i.e. resampling can't be avoided.

 

[x RELIC x]

The experimental Hi-Res audio support in Poweramp only supports a subset of Android devices and will display the name of the DAC variant it has found on the host hardware.



Poweramp doesn't recognize the DAC in the X7II, because the developer hasn't added support for it, so it doesn't enable its play-back frequencies and bit depths. It is up to the developer to properly support the X7II the way FiiO recommends, which could be through the generic driver the way Neutron does.
The developer doesn't have to bypass Android's SRC, because FiiO removed it. Poweramp is doing its own resampling, because it doesn't recognize the host hardware as being able to play at other frequencies than 48Khz.

So Poweramp needs to know what the DAC is simply to support the output of different sampling rates? I see where you’re coming from now, but it seems rather limiting. Do you know why they don’t just use generic drivers?

 

[LamerDeluxe (tm)]

The Poweramp alpha actually MIGHT work on rooted X7IIs if you modify some entries in build.prop.
Keep in in mind, though, that even if it does, it still isn't able to follow source frequency at this stage, i.e. resampling can't be avoided.

That is interesting, does rooting the X7II have any drawbacks?

So Poweramp needs to know what the DAC is simply to support the output of different sampling rates? I see where you’re coming from now, but it seems rather limiting. Do you know why they don’t just use generic drivers?

I guess Hi-Res play-back support in Poweramp started as a way to enable that on phones that didn't officially support it, which would be why they target the hardware so directly. Maybe generic driver support was added later on in Android, or there are no phones that support it. If someone asked them to, they might add support for the generic driver, but then, like 13-7 states, they would have to add an option to use the source frequency as well. With the current Hi-Res support it has, you select a single output frequency which it resamples everything to.

 

[13-7]

That is interesting, does rooting the X7II have any drawbacks?

Well, there is always the possibility of bricking your device,but it is very unlikely. Other than my current main phone (due to my banking app's no-root policy), I've rooted every single Android device I ever owned and never bricked a single one of them.

Depending on the manufacturer's policy, it might break your warranty, but devices can easily be unrooted, so this is usually a non-issue - unless the worst case mentioned before happens and you brick your device.

 

[LamerDeluxe (tm)]

Well, there is always the possibility of bricking your device,but it is very unlikely. Other than my current main phone (due to my banking apps no-root policy), I've rooted every single Android device I ever owned and never bricked a single one of them.

Depending on the manufacturer's policy, it might break your warranty, but devices can easily be unrooted, so this is usually a non-issue - unless the worst case mentioned before happens and you brick your device.

So not really different from rooting a phone then, I've rooted my phones before, but that was quite a long time back. Any other advantages to rooting the X7II? I wonder what FiiO's policy on rooting is.