[miceblue]

Quote:

I'm sure you could adequately run the HE-500s out of either amp but you would need a desktop amp to get the most out of the sound. Given you probably won't be moving around with the HE-500s much, it doesn't really make sense to go with the E12s. 

If either can adequately run the HE-500, what advantage does a so-called desktop amp have over the other two (other than more input/output ports, and excluding tube amplifiers)?

 

[Greed]

Quote:

To be fair, I don't think either the O2 or E12 is a good match for the HE-500. You may want to get a desktop amp if you plan to get the most out of the HE-500. It's such a power hog because its sensitivity is so low.

He wants something to travel with though, so a desktop amplifier would not suit his needs.
 
 
Quote:

If either can adequately run the HE-500, what advantage does a so-called desktop amp have over the other two (other than more input/output ports, and excluding tube amplifiers)?

 
Adequately powering something isn't the same thing as powering headphones to their full potential.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

 
Adequately powering something isn't the same thing as powering headphones to their full potential.

 
 
I agree.
I can listen to my AKG Q701s using my iPod, iPad or HP notebook.
But I don't hear the full potential of the Q701s.
Personally, I did not buy the Q701 to use with those sources.
YMMV.

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

Quote:

If either can adequately run the HE-500, what advantage does a so-called desktop amp have over the other two (other than more input/output ports, and excluding tube amplifiers)?

 
Adequately powering something isn't the same thing as powering headphones to their full potential.

Mmkay, so what does "full potential" mean and what does a desktop amp provide that a portable amp can't? If it's the amplifier itself and the way it sounds, that's one thing, but that can't be the only reason since it's being implied that a desktop amp can provide something a portable amp can't.

 

[Bill-P]

Well, proper grounding for one. And more power...

 

[Greed]

Quote:

Mmkay, so what does "full potential" mean and what does a desktop amp provide that a portable amp can't? If it's the amplifier itself and the way it sounds, that's one thing, but that can't be the only reason since it's being implied that a desktop amp can provide something a portable amp can't.

Well without going into technical details and derailing this thread.. the most obvious difference is the power output. Also keep in mind that that when a designer has intentions of making a portable amp, they always have to account for space. Footprint is one of the major restrictions for designers when making a portable amp. No one will want to buy an overly large portable amp, especially with "on-to-go" needs. I'd consider full potential as being able to power a pair of headphones authoritatively while also, figuratively speaking... breathing "life" into them. It is a tough thing to describe, but hearing a headphone from a portable amp and then a full sized desktop amp usually tends to be a huge difference, everything sound fuller and more bodied. Sometimes the effects maybe negative, that's when synergy and such comes into play, but typically speaking the word full comes to mind.

 

[miceblue]

Mmkay, so what does "full potential" mean and what does a desktop amp provide that a portable amp can't? If it's the amplifier itself and the way it sounds, that's one thing, but that can't be the only reason since it's being implied that a desktop amp can provide something a portable amp can't.

Well without going into technical details and derailing this thread.. the most obvious difference is the power output. Also keep in mind that that when a designer has intentions of making a portable amp, they always have to account for space. Footprint is one of the major restrictions for designers when making a portable amp. No one will want to buy an overly large portable amp, especially with "on-to-go" needs. I'd consider full potential as being able to power a pair of headphones authoritatively while also, figuratively speaking... breathing "life" into them. It is a tough thing to describe, but hearing a headphone from a portable amp and then a full sized desktop amp usually tends to be a huge difference, everything sound fuller and more bodied. Sometimes the effects maybe negative, that's when synergy and such comes into play, but typically speaking the word full comes to mind.

I kind of see where you're going with this but it doesn't quite make sense to me. The E12 has plenty of output power. If power output is the obvious difference, are you saying that if I use a sensitive 32 Ω headphone, a weaker amp should make the headphones sound "less full" than with the E12 given every other aspect of the amp is exactly the same and playing music at the same volume level without clipping, and without adding extra noise? How does output power affect how "full" a headphone sounds?

 

[Chris J]

I kind of see where you're going with this but it doesn't quite make sense to me. The E12 has plenty of output power. If power output is the obvious difference, are you saying that if I use a sensitive 32 Ω headphone, a weaker amp should make the headphones sound "less full" than with the E12 given every other aspect of the amp is exactly the same and playing music at the same volume level without clipping, and without adding extra noise? How does output power affect how "full" a headphone sounds?

Basically if the amplifier can output enough voltage and current to deliver enough power to your 'phones without clipping at an actual listening level then you are half way there! And I'm not talking about an amp that can deliver 20 times more power than your Grados actually require!
Obviously you also need a decent signal to noise ratio and low enough distortion. Not just low THD, also low IMD.
Throw in a quiet power supply.
I have a few headphone amps, only one is quiet enough to drive my Shure IEMs.
I was surprised to find out that even some of my battery operated headphone amps are too noisy for my IEMs. I had assumed that if you get off the power grid them you should get reduced background hash. Guess what?
One of my battery powered amps creates too much low level buzz. And this is when it runs off batteries! i.e. charger not connected, source not connected.
Oh, and Flat frequency response throughout the audio bandwidth.
Circuit board needs to be laid out properly.
The right components have to be chosen and applied properly.

Want more?
Talk to someone who actually designs audio gear for a living.
Someone who has designed a few products which have sold a few thousand pieces with negligible warranty claims.
Can't find an audio designer in your neighbourhood?
Try reading one of the books written by noted audio designer Douglas Self.

The rest of us really only understand a small part of what separates the good from the great.
I've worked as a professional electrical engineer for many years as a power engineer. I even designed analog signal processing gear for a year. But I know enough to know that I am not an expert in audio signal design.

I'll stop ranting now.....

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

Quote:

I kind of see where you're going with this but it doesn't quite make sense to me. The E12 has plenty of output power. If power output is the obvious difference, are you saying that if I use a sensitive 32 Ω headphone, a weaker amp should make the headphones sound "less full" than with the E12 given every other aspect of the amp is exactly the same and playing music at the same volume level without clipping, and without adding extra noise? How does output power affect how "full" a headphone sounds?

Basically if the amplifier can output enough voltage and current to deliver enough power to your 'phones without clipping at an actual listening level then you are half way there! And I'm not talking about an amp that can deliver 20 times more power than your Grados actually require!
Obviously you also need a decent signal to noise ratio and low enough distortion. Not just low THD, also low IMD.
Throw in a quiet power supply.
I have a few headphone amps, only one is quiet enough to drive my Shure IEMs.
I was surprised to find out that even some of my battery operated headphone amps are too noisy for my IEMs. I had assumed that if you get off the power grid them you should get reduced background hash. Guess what?
One of my battery powered amps creates too much low level buzz. And this is when it runs off batteries! i.e. charger not connected, source not connected.
Oh, and Flat frequency response throughout the audio bandwidth.
Circuit board needs to be laid out properly.
The right components have to be chosen and applied properly.

Want more?
Talk to someone who actually designs audio gear for a living.
Someone who has designed a few products which have sold a few thousand pieces with negligible warranty claims.
Can't find an audio designer in your neighbourhood?
Try reading one of the books written by noted audio designer Douglas Self.

The rest of us really only understand a small part of what separates the good from the great.
I've worked as a professional electrical engineer for many years as a power engineer. I even designed analog signal processing gear for a year. But I know enough to know that I am not an expert in audio signal design.

I'll stop ranting now.....

Ah, I see. So it's more about the optimisation of the circuit itself rather than only just the power. Thank you for the explanation! I'll have to check out Douglas Self's books now.

 

[gavinfabl]

I have been using my Sennheiser HD558's and Bose AE2i (train headphones ) and so far really impressed. In about a week or so I should receive a pair of the new audio technica ath-ad900x so will update my review no page 38 and on headgear section.

Also bidding today on a pair of Sony MDR-1R. Loads of these for sale on eBay from people selling these that came free with their new Sony Xperia Z. New these cost £250-300 but on eBay around £110-120. I like a bargain.

 

[Evshrug]

Wish I had affiliate links... Maybe I'll do that in the future, but I didn't make time for that before jumping into the review itself. Kinda peeved that in the stats of my E12 video, I saw a store post Boweii's video and mine on their product page to increase their sales. Happy to work for ya guys for free, while I go back to flipping burgers tomorrow :rolleyes:

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

Ah, I see. So it's more about the optimisation of the circuit itself rather than only just the power. Thank you for the explanation! I'll have to check out Douglas Self's books now.

 
Why didn't I just say that?  LOL!
I like your right to the point summation!

 

[gavinfabl]

Wish I had affiliate links... Maybe I'll do that in the future, but I didn't make time for that before jumping into the review itself. Kinda peeved that in the stats of my E12 video, I saw a store post Boweii's video and mine on their product page to increase their sales. Happy to work for ya guys for free, while I go back to flipping burgers tomorrow :rolleyes:

I did everything for free too. How do you get affiliate links?

 

[bowei006]

Wish I had affiliate links... Maybe I'll do that in the future, but I didn't make time for that before jumping into the review itself. Kinda peeved that in the stats of my E12 video, I saw a store post Boweii's video and mine on their product page to increase their sales. Happy to work for ya guys for free, while I go back to flipping burgers tomorrow :rolleyes:

What? What store?

 

[Evshrug]

They credit us, but... here: http://store.treoo.com/index.php/main/fiio-e12-mont-blanc-portable-headphone-amplifier.html [Mod Edit: Affiliate links aren't permitted here.]
There may be others too of course. I think it's just sorta the thing that happens when you make reviews.
 
PS, I like your new avatar ^____^