[audiopoor]

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Wow, you've covered a lot of ground for two posts.  I'm  glad your opinion of the E9 has changed.  It still bewilders me how solid state electronics can "burn in", but after the E9 I can't really doubt that it happens.
 
 

Yeah I've been thinking about it more and more and I think my prescriptions might also have been at least partly to blame for my initial perceptions.  Some of them are pretty heavy if you know what I mean.  And I ain't no spring chicken case you didn't already know (Jewel).  I'm certain the new phones played their part too.  Anyway I'm going to design a new sota linear power supply for my E9 after I study The pcb/circuit and TI TPA6120 data sheet, etc.  I just put on Surfer Rosa.
 
 

 

[MickeyVee]

I've made an interesting observation over the last week or so.  When I was breaking in my E9, it was pretty much on all of the time.  I've since started turning it off when not in use.  Upon startup, I really don't like the sound.  Left it on last night and this morning, It's back to being pretty good.  I think I'm going to leave it powered up all of the time now.
Has anyone else observed this?

 

[scannon18]

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MLE, I'm not sure if you have been over this yet, but how does the HE-4 pair with the E7/E9? I ask because I am looking at the he-4 as my into to orthos and am wondering if I need to buy a new amp first.  I'm sure your Lyr powers them much better, but any thoughts on E9->He-4 would be appreciated.

The E9 drives the HE-4 to absurdly loud levels, but you can tell its not driving to their potential. Bass is loose, and detail is spread thin. I mean, the HE-4 will likely still sound better than probably anything you may have used, but it really begs for more than what the E9 has. The E9 won't make the HE-4 clip or distort with anything I've tossed at it, but its missing a bit of the fullness that the HE-4 is capable of. You would be happy with the HE-4 on the E9 as a temp measure, but I'd advise on getting some real power for them like the Lyr or HF5.

I'm so happy with the HE4 that I don't even wanna go further into ortho land. These babies are a slap to the face after having spent so much on mid range dynamics. They are THAT good. You'll never look back...

I'm thinking of an Asgard->He-4 or Lyr->He-4.  Or, I could take $900 and get started on my stereo speaker set-up.  That's enough money for a nice amp and nice bookshelf monitors.  Maybe even a sub if I can play amazon's crazy pricing right
 

 

[MrScary]

Which op amp do I switch out for rolling?  All of them?  One, two?  I'm using the 3.5mm line in on the back being fed from my Xonar.  With ouput to the 1/4" headphone jack.  Also is there a way to upgrade the volume pot to a better one that doesn't give static?
 

 

I would switch all 3 if they are the same what opamps are you planiing to roll to?

 

[scannon18]

Am I burning in the amp when I run music from my E7 through the E9 to the line out for my speakers?  Or am I only burning in one line of many?  I guess it would help to know which of the components are "burning in".  Is it the op-amps, the wires, or anything else that the signal passes through?  Or is it nothing at all?

 

[estreeter]

If anything needs to undergo a physical change, its the capacitors. My experience rolling opamps tells me that they settle down very quickly - less than an hour, and that includes placebo time.
 
Read Steve Deckert's thoughts on burnin for solid-state (most of his products are tube amps).

 

[scannon18]

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Read Steve Deckert's thoughts on burnin for solid-state (most of his products are tube amps).

I checked his website and couldn't find it, do you know the title of the article?

 

[estreeter]

I've had several requests for this - I usually ignore them, but I'm feeling magnaminous. Bolding is mine:
 
Saw Satelliteguy's post above and thought this might be a good time to talk about burn-in.

All equipment, tube or solid state, needs to burn-in when it's new before it reaches peak performance. Some gear takes longer than other. Of all the parts inside an audio component, capacitors are the primary item that need burned-in. Specifically, the film and the dielectric that make up the capacitors have to "seat" before the time constant of the cap becomes stable. This process is the result of using the cap, and cycling it on and off for extended periods of time. The best approach is 5 hours on, and 5 hours off, repeated at least 5 times. This brings the caps up to temperature and then allows them to return to room temperature. This expansion and contraction accelerates the process.

Some caps take longer than others, for example, polyester film caps take much less time than polyurethane film caps (found inside the Zenhead) but polyester film caps, while smooth and forgiving sonically, do not have the resolution or focus of good polyurethanes. As a basic rule of thumb, the better the capacitors used, the longer they take to burn-in, and the greater the sonic reward.

Once caps (and other parts) have burned-in, they stay that way. The initial burn-in process does not have to be repeated for the life of the unit. However, if you let an audio component sit unused in the closet for several months, you will find it takes at least a few hours to get with the program.

Frequency balance, dynamics, clarity, focus, and sound stage are all effected during the burn in process. Each of these aspects will go from good to bad on independent cycles during the process. This is why something brand new might sound great for about 30 minutes and then become confused sounding shortly thereafter.

When Satelliteguy used a pink noise disc to burn the unit in, he unknowingly trained the caps to favor pink noise, which is not music. So on music, the unit sounded less than stellar. There are many burn in CD's available these days that claim to accelerate the process, and while they do accelerate the initial stage of the process, they will actually delay or even prevent the final stage of the process from happening. There is no substitute for real music when burning in an audio component, even it takes a bit longer. Be sure if you use some magic burn-in tool, that you finish the process with real music.

The Zenhead needs at least a couple hundred hours to get through the burn-in process. So does almost any other audio component that I've ever owned. The reason it seems like a big deal with the Zenhead is because of the transparency of the design. By the simple fact that it IS so transparent sounding, the difference between being burned-in and not burned-in is DRAMATIC. An identical product that was not as well implemented and with half the transparency would logically have only half as much difference between being burned-in and not burned-in. Or appear to take only half as long to burn-in.

Hopefully this helps people understand why things need burned-in and why the results vary.

Steve Deckert / DECWARE

 

[scannon18]

Wow, that explains a lot.  I definitely feel that my E9's performance is going in cycles, though overall things are on an upward trend.  So far I can really only complain about sibilance (gone after three hours) soundstage, and instrument seperation (still a problem).  Also, clarity (has its ups and downs, for some reason it was really impressive when i first used the e9 and now it's worse than the e7 alone.)

 

[scannon18]

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By the simple fact that it IS so transparent sounding, the difference between being burned-in and not burned-in is DRAMATIC. An identical product that was not as well implemented and with half the transparency would logically have only half as much difference between being burned-in and not burned-in. Or appear to take only half as long to burn-in.
 

So, can we surmise that the e9 will take a long time to appear to burn in, because it will so willingly amplify it's flaws?
 

 

[estreeter]

scannon, my advice is for you to simply spend a couple of months with the amp, and just listen to music you like. Its that simple.

 

[audiopoor]

 
Film capacitors even metalized types have almost immeasurably low ESR at audio frequencies and are never subject to self heating in audio applications.  High ripple current applications such as those in some switching power supply filters are another matter and film (typically polypropylene) and foil caps are used there for reliability.  The best capacitors for audio are in order PTFE (Teflon-one brand name), polystyrene (almost rare now, once common before 1985), polycarbonate (rarely seen in high-end since the '80s except in certain hi-rel industrial apps.), polypropylene and polyester.  Polyester types, while certainly inexpensive and ubiquitous are the oldest and have the least favorable audio performance "package".  Some newer films/SMD types have cropped up since 2000 or so but their use is still limited.  I have never heard of a "polyurethane" capacitor. They must be new or not used in the US).  The most important capacitor performance parameters to be considered for audio signal use are dissipation factor and dielectric absorption.  A properly made, tensioned film capacitor will not have to "seat".
Electrolytic capacitor performance as it pertains to audio is another matter and they undergo significant, measurable "break-in" due to forming, temp. cycling, active chemistry etc.  They ideally should not be used in the audio signal path, even in crossovers.  They are designed, intentioned and optimized for other applications, specifically power supplies and inverters, of which there may be thousands of designs.
The subject of burn-in is worth investigating because people do hear differences over time.  This subject was often discussed by radio designers and consumers in the 1930's so it is not new.
With so many elements between the signal source and the listeners' ears it is impossible to isolate a sole culprit.  Most likely everything is contributing something, however small, to the equation.

 

[MrMike]

I placed an order for the E7/E9 combo through Micca earlier today, which will be my first dedicated headphone DAC/AMP combo. I thought about spending more long and hard, but ended up going with this combo due to the overwhelming responses that the E9 delivers tons of power, and the E17 will be able to be swapped in for the E7 later this year.
 
Since I've had my K271s, I've been driving them with my desktop or laptop plugged into an Onkyo receiver. I'm hopeful for a difference in sound quality, and the other reason for purchase is that I'm interested in other headphones, namely the Grado 325, K702, and DT770/DT880/DT990. No idea which BD yet, I'll have to grab the three and keep my favorite.

 

[mackat]

HD650??? You can get it for $300 used on here
\
MacKat

 

[MrMike]

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HD650??? You can get it for $300 used on here
\
MacKat

I'm unsure of how I feel about used headphones, and I've read a lot of mixed reviews on the bass of the HD650 so I would need to buy them with being able to return them, or get a chance to listen to a couple of songs on them.