[ippudo]

Quote:

PLEASE try this for ONE WEEK!
computer >>> USB port on E09K >>> put E17 into E09K dock >>> plug headphones into E09K jack
or
computer >>> SPDIF port on E17 >>> put E17 into E09K dock >>> plug headphones into E09K headphone jack
it may take your ears a week to get used to this sound. You may just be used to the thick, heavy, muddy sound of the old SS amp. I used to use an old Yamaha CR-2020 receiver, compared to a good amp it sounded very thick and full and mellow. Sort of appealing in some ways, but not the world's most transparent amp. Thru a really good pair of speakers it sounded overly full and mellow. A good modern headphone amp will sound faster, cleaner, purer, the bass will be tighter and punchier and more accurate, clearer mids and highs.
Try it out, what do you have to loose?
Edit:
At the end of one week, then go back to the Sherwood and see what you think.
If you still like the Sherwood more, keep it simple:
computer >>> USB or SPDIF into E17/E09K combo >>> line out jacks on E09K into Aux jack on the Sherwood and use the Sherwood headphone jack.
Don't do anything more complicated that that, things will only sound worse if you complicate it further.

 

Sorry I had missed your message before my last post! Many thanks for your suggestions.

I tried the first option for a day (yes, I probably should have given it a bit longer but to me it just sounded really disappointing - unpleasantly harsh, thin and mushy, especially at higher volumes (gain setting was 6 db on the E09 and 0db/06db on the E17, with a main volume of 55 on the E17). I tried all sorts of EQ, both on Foobar and the E17, which didn't really improve things. I agree the sound I achieved with the Behringer 222 soundcard and Sherwood combo may have been a little woolly and veiled but at least the dynamics felt right and my ears didn't start bleeding after a while. Initially I thought the problem was with my cans, but both the Beyers and the Grados 80i didn't sound their "usual" selves. By comparison, some more expensive headphone amps I tried in the shops a while ago sounded MUCH fuller to what I heard from the E17/E09, right away, though I'm not sure whether they used any extra amplification. Maybe, as you say, it just takes some getting used to but somehow I don't think the difference should be that huge.

 

I'd like to try the SP/DIF route but unfortunately my integrated soundcard (Soundmax from 2005, prehistoric nonsense, I know!) doesn't have an optical out, so I guess I'll have to wait until I get a new PC, hopefully next year.

 

Like I said I don't think adding the E17 made much difference at all when connected to my laptop, which has one of the better ATI Radeon cards - it still sounded unacceptable to me (louder for sure but again very thin and boxed). I'd imagine the difference is more noticeable when pairing the E17 with an iPod or Android phone. Given that the DAC of the E17 is obviously excellent, it's the amplification provided by both the E17 and the E09 which aren't nowhere near as good as they should be IMO.

After trying Kalbee's last suggestion, all I can say is that the sound has much opened up and it feels the woolly sound of the Sherwood (on relatively low volume) made way for the clearer (more "aggressive" sound) of the E09, despite the latter acting "only" as a pre-amp. I feel the instrument separation just wasn't there before.

 

 

[kalbee]

Thanks Kalbee, the graphs are helpful. They illustrated why the more the amplification we add the more distortion we get.
If the the software volume control can indeed flatten the wave form, then since we need more amplification we in the end have more distortion. 

I have done some testing.
It seems true that having 100% output with lower volume in E17 gives me a better SQ. I didn't do a blind review for this.
The reason that I did not use 100% before is that my modded T50rp has low impedance. If I set it to 100%, volume 15-20 at gain 0 is sufficient for me.
Now, when I plugged the L7 and tried listen using the line out, I found that it is much louder than volume 20 at gain 0. It seems that the amp section also responsible for reducing volume, right? 

Yes, you can say that the amp is responsible for reducing the volume.
From my understanding (which may not be 100% correct might I add, essentially with the L7 the sound signal is processed through E17's DAC, and Line Out will give you the full power of the signal, untouched (or not significantly modified in terms of volume) by E17's amp. I believe you can reach even higher volumes through E17's amp.

I tried your suggestion (not in a million years would I have thought of using the H/O in of the SS amp as an out) and lo and behold, the SQ is even more impressive now (more headspace, more depth, more punch, more everything; vocals sound crystal clear). I bet it will sound out-of-this-world awesome with a better power amp. Shame though that it takes extra amplification to make the E17/E09 combo truly shine. I was close to asking for a refund, so thanks a bunch for sorting this problem and keeping me from spending more cash.

Glad it works out for you
When you put many amps in series you are amping the sound various times... it's like taking different juices and mixing them together. The result may be good as it could also be bad. If you like the way they now sound, then you've gotten yourself a personal winner. Which is what matters

 

[ippudo]

Quote:

Yes, you can say that the amp is responsible for reducing the volume.
From my understanding (which may not be 100% correct might I add, essentially with the L7 the sound signal is processed through E17's DAC, and Line Out will give you the full power of the signal, untouched (or not significantly modified in terms of volume) by E17's amp. I believe you can reach even higher volumes through E17's amp.
Glad it works out for you

When you put many amps in series you are amping the sound various times... it's like taking different juices and mixing them together. The result may be good as it could also be bad. If you like the way they now sound, then you've gotten yourself a personal winner. Which is what matters

Yes, a very pleasant surprise - I'm still amazed, 10 hours and counting...

As it's hardly breaking the bank, I think I'll also check out the L7. Once again many thanks to you and everyone else who took the time to answer my questions. Life's good again!

 

[KBerube80]

Quick question:  I am about to purchase a E17 for laptop/ipod use and am just wondering if the unit comes with any wires?  DO I need to buy the ipod connector (LOD) wire and USB wire separately?
 

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Quick question:  I am about to purchase a E17 for laptop/ipod use and am just wondering if the unit comes with any wires?  DO I need to buy the ipod connector (LOD) wire and USB wire separately?
 

It does not come with a LOD for iPod
 
It comes with 3.5mm exchange cable. For aux to aux.
 
It comes with USB cable
 
The items included are listed on FiiO's website. Please refer to there if you have any questions on what the specifications of the E17 are or what it comes with.

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

On my E17 at the top it says 48K 16bit, what does this mean?

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

Also, how do I use the E17 with my laptop, i plugged it in and its charging, but it plays through the computer speakers not through the E17/headphones.

 

[KBerube80]

Quote:

It does not come with a LOD for iPod
 
It comes with 3.5mm exchange cable. For aux to aux.
 
It comes with USB cable
 
The items included are listed on FiiO's website. Please refer to there if you have any questions on what the specifications of the E17 are or what it comes with.

Thank you for the reply. 
 
Apologies for the silly question.  I wasn't led to the Fiio website through web searches.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

On my E17 at the top it says 48K 16bit, what does this mean?

The signal being inputted
Quote:

Also, how do I use the E17 with my laptop, i plugged it in and its charging, but it plays through the computer speakers not through the E17/headphones.

You have to select E17 as default playback device in Windows. It will say E17 USB in alternative text. Right click and select as default.

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

Sorry for posting again, but what does gain do?

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Sorry for posting again, but what does gain do?

There is a lot of audio stuff that goes into what gain and amping is. But obviously you didn't come to ask and learn and read through a 4-5 paragraph long essay.
 
So just take it that gain makes the audio louder. More power. 
 
How it achieves this differs from design to design but just take it as power.
 
Have sensitive IEMs? 0dB gain. Have headphones that require a bit of power? 12dB

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

Quote:

The signal being inputted
You have to select E17 as default playback device in Windows. It will say E17 USB in alternative text. Right click and select as default.

Thanks, but where do i find these playback settings?

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

Windows can't find the E17, I think its because its a school laptop.  Does the DAC still work if plug it in through AUX into the laptop?

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

When does the  48k 16 bit signal change?

 

[bowei006]

Thanks, but where do i find these playback settings?

In the taskbar menu. It is the volume icon. You right click it

Windows can't find the E17, I think its because its a school laptop.  Does the DAC still work if plug it in through AUX into the laptop?

Yes. But noy recommended. You are amping a terrible source.

Yes, E17 uses class 1 self contained audio drivers. It should work unless there are heavy restrictions on the PC

When does the  48k 16 bit signal change?

When you input a signal that isnt that. It is just an indicator. Most audio are in 44.1/16, E17 just rounds up to the nearest one.