[AFRO insomniac]

Yes, each unit is connected to a separate HDMI port/RCA input port and I switch between input channels using the TV remote.
 
Yep, that is exactly what I'd like to do (switch input channels but keep the E17 + headphones docked to the TV). It's been a pain to separately connect the headphones back and forth to each device manually... It will be awesome to pass audio straight through the TV and just switch inputs.
 
That is good to know, didn't know I had to cap the cable end or that the cable lens was fragile.
 
Yeah that's funny you are exactly right about the costs. The cables are pretty cheap but the shipping really raises the price a bit. I'll probably order a couple of extra cables in case I accidentally damage one.
 
Thanks again for all the help. Really didn't know anything about these types of cables so I really appreciate the information.
 
So on top of using the E17 as a portable DAC/AMP and my laptop DAC, I can also use it as a headphone connector/control for my television. Awesome!

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Yes, each unit is connected to a separate HDMI port/RCA input port and I switch between input channels using the TV remote.
 
Yep, that is exactly what I'd like to do (switch input channels but keep the E17 + headphones docked to the TV). It's been a pain to separately connect the headphones back and forth to each device manually... It will be awesome to pass audio straight through the TV and just switch inputs.
 
That is good to know, didn't know I had to cap the cable end or that the cable lens was fragile.
 
Yeah that's funny you are exactly right about the costs. The cables are pretty cheap but the shipping really raises the price a bit. I'll probably order a couple of extra cables in case I accidentally damage one.
 
Thanks again for all the help. Really didn't know anything about these types of cables so I really appreciate the information.
 
So on top of using the E17 as a portable DAC/AMP and my laptop DAC, I can also use it as a headphone connector/control for my television. Awesome!

USusually audio SHOULD pass through the TV so the optical out should pass all audio through that....usually.
 
The lens isn't super fragile. It's that getting residue on it will hamper the sound quality as optical toslink.......uses optics to transfer data and thus smudges can affect it a lot. I have had a user report that his lens fell out...if that happens STOP using immidately and order a replacement. IT probably won't damage your device but having glass stuck in an mini toslink input isn't good.
 
Shipping raises it but I was mainly talking about waiting a week........the agony
 
I usually just use generic words but for people that want to learn like you, I start using and typing all the long terms like mini toslink and I gnerally provide pictures to help.
 
Don't say awesome just yet, when using those devices, audio usually passes through your TV speakers right? If so then passing through E17 through the TV's own S/PDIF output should be good!
 
Just want you to note, that Coaxil can also be used and from whta I remember it has a few sonic quirks of it's own(was it more noise? I forgot) but it is durable and you won't have to worry about carefully unplugging..and the E17 suports it..

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Yeah waiting for the shipping can be a pain (to be honest, I'm actually waiting for my E17 to come in the mail

 ...

).
 
 
Yes, the audio passes through the TV speakers so I think it will work.
 
Those pictures help a ton.  I actually tried to google around for an answer with no luck so I decided to ask in this thread. Glad I did.

 
Interesting, hmmm so a coaxial cable wold work as well?
 
I might buy a couple of both cables to test the clarity of each and which I prefer.  If the coaxial sounds just as good I might lean towards that if the durability/fragility risk is a little better.
 
Do you have any particular preference between the two?
 
If you don't know it's all good, you've helped me a ton already lol

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Yeah waiting for the shipping can be a pain (to be honest, I'm actually waiting for my E17 to come in the mail

 ...

).
 
 
Yes, the audio passes through the TV speakers so I think it will work.
 
Those pictures help a ton.  I actually tried to google around for an answer with no luck so I decided to ask in this thread. Glad I did.

 
Interesting, hmmm so a coaxial cable wold work as well?
 
I might buy a couple of both cables to test the clarity of each and which I prefer.  If the coaxial sounds just as good I might lean towards that if the durability/fragility risk is a little better.
 
Do you have any particular preference between the two?
 
If you don't know it's all good, you've helped me a ton already lol

I have no preference, the chance of you telling a difference is close to nill. It takes prolonged listening tests that are hopefully completely blind and even then, changing song and other variable conditions often throw the results. Try coaxil if you would like, it's a lot lower maintenance.

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Alright good stuff. This saves me a lot of time/research.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Alright good stuff. This saves me a lot of time/research.

There will be people that go and say this and that, but at the level of really anything sub $600 for headphones...... you don't need to spend a whole lot and the quirks of coaxil vs optical don't need to be worred about. Here:
 
 

[size=8pt] Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Optical digital is more common - some equipment has more optical digital than coaxial digital inputs, and other equipment does not have any coaxial digital inputs at all.[/size]

Advantages of coaxial

1. [size=8pt] sturdier cables and connectors

1. [size=8pt] cables can be cheaper[/size]

[/size] Disadvantages of coaxial

1. [size=8pt] electrical connection can lead to ground loop problems, a low-level hum or buzz, in some situations

[/size] Advantages of optical

1. [size=8pt] no electrical connection, so no ground loop

[/size] Disadvantages of optical

1. [size=8pt] cables and connectors more fragile. Since the cable contains a plastic or glass strand, it cannot be bent very sharply. Care must also be taken not to scratch the lens at the end.

1. [size=8pt] cables can be more expensive, especially glass types[/size]

[/size]

OK, but which sounds better?

[size=8pt] Again, a subject of great debate. Theoretically coaxial digital can lead to less jitter, a digital timing error that can degrade the sound. However it all depends on the quality of the components used to convert the PCM to S/PDIF and back again, so this can hardly be considered a rule.[/size]

[size=8pt] It's best to experiment to see which sounds better to you, with your ears, your music, your room and your equipment. You may not hear any difference at all.[/size]

Well to give it to you easy, coaxil can be interfered by other electronics nearby and thus cause noise or a hum noise like it says but is very sturdy and easy and low maintenance, optical would not have the buzz problem IF IT EVEN OCCURS (in your setup and cable you buy, it differs) but you have to be careful with optical...it's not expesnive but shipping is a pain and can affect sound quality if you smudge the lens.
 
(I read this a long time ago, good refresher! )
If buying both a coaxil and optical is cheap, then try both and use one (and maybe return the other). Most people have coaxil cables in their home already so look around! You are looking for a differnet kind though, a "digital coaxil cable"
it looks like this
 

 
Many have it, most don't know they have it.
 
You can tthen try which cable works best with your setup. I have heard of and have used coaxil cables with good shielding and one's that didn't...this was of course before my stint in audio so I can't tell you how it went accurately... I don't remember how it sounded and even if I did. I didn't know about "sound" back then.
 
In short: See if you can get both an optical toslink cable and a digital coaxil cable (with good shielding). Try them with your setup and E17 and see if you hear noise over coaxil or a buzz. You can also try a sq test, but 99%(napkin numbers) of the time at this price range and "learning" about what to listen for, it's all placebo and psychiotic. If you can't hear buzz with coaxil and you honestly can't tell a difference with optical toslink. Coaxil is fine.
 
 
here's what it will look like:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2760#post_8300499

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Looking at that picture I think I do have that cable lying around the house, that is hilairious. I believe I picked one up for a dollar at Circuit City during their going out of business sale, now I actually know what it is for! Those pictures are great, now I know exactly what to look for. Yeah I'll test for the buzzing sound and like you said I'll get a couple of both cables and experiment with the sound. Thanks for the bulletpoint summary.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Looking at that picture I think I do have that cable lying around the house, that is hilairious. I believe I picked one up for a dollar at Circuit City during their going out of business sale, now I actually know what it is for! Those pictures are great, now I know exactly what to look for. Yeah I'll test for the buzzing sound and like you said I'll get a couple of both cables and experiment with the sound. Thanks for the bulletpoint summary.

Don't mistake it for an component RCA cable! They look very very very similar and the more "pro" versions almost look identical! Pro RCA cables and digital coaxil ones LOOK VERY SIMILAR. Except RCA is analog and Digital Coaxil......is unsuprisingly digital! >_< why is this? They both use the RCA connector standard......... regular component RCA cables are easy as they are colored and weak looking.....the more "pro" ones that are component look almost the same!
 
here's a pro component RCA cable:(the word pro is what consumers added for it, most pro cables at best buy aren't professoinal)

 
Here's the digital coaxil RCA connected:

 
 
Tip: Keep in mind thickness and weight..if you are able too. The E17 can again be swung around or if the cable drops to the ground....SEND your E17 flying to the ground as well. Happened to me a few times...except it fell into the crease on my desk(two desks conected to each other) that the cable was poking through and thus didn't fall to the ground. Putting pressure on the S/PDIF jack with a "hanging" cable is also not a good idea so I always leave some room on the desk for the cable to lay on(my "fancy" MP optical one) so that it doesn't create too much tension on my S/PDIF port on my current desktop unit.
 
 
Use:
 

Composite analog video	Composite	Yellow
Analog audio​	Left/Mono (record if 4 connector tape cable)	White
Right (record if 4 connector tape cable)	Red
Left tape play if 4 connector tape cable	Black
Right tape play if 4 connector tape cable	Yellow
Center	Green
Left surround	Blue
Right surround	Gray
Left back surround	Brown
Right back surround	Tan
Subwoofer	Purple
Digital audio	S/PDIF	Orange
Component analog video (YPbPr)​	Y	Green
PB	Blue
PR	Red
Component analog video/VGA (RGB/HV)​	R	Red
G	Green
B	Blue
H(Horizontal sync)/S(Composite Sync)	Yellow
V(Vertical sync)	White

 
 
This table will show you which cable is which. If the cable doesn't have orange surrounding it, it isn't digital coaxil! The blue and red in the first picture of the component RCA is on the list! 
 

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Orange, ok thanks again.
 
Is there a reason "they" made these cables look so similar? Ok nevermind I see, so they use the same connector standard...hmm. Wow that makes things really confusing for the average consumner I bet. Like you said they look almost identical sans the colored labels.
 
Ok yeah thanks, I'll make sure the E17 is grounded to something and I'll probably get an extra long cable to give it some slack.
 
 
I might as well ask, you said that a $8 cable would be pretty good but I found a optical cable for around $4 on monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=6273&seq=1&format=2
 
You think this is too cheap?
 
 
Also the coaxial cable (althought this one might be too heavy which like you said can be a bad thing...): http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=6306&seq=1&format=2
 
You think these are too cheap or they will be okay?
 
 
I've ordered other cables from monoprice in the past and most of their stuff is fairly decent. Don't really know about these cables though but the reviews seem okay.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Orange, ok thanks again.
 
Is there a reason "they" made these cables look so similar? Ok nevermind I see, so they use the same connector standard...hmm. Wow that makes things really confusing for the average consumner I bet. Like you said they look almost identical sans the colored labels.
 
Ok yeah thanks, I'll make sure the E17 is grounded to something and I'll probably get an extra long cable to give it some slack.
 
 
I might as well ask, you said that a $8 cable would be pretty good but I found a optical cable for around $4 on monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=6273&seq=1&format=2
 
You think this is too cheap?
 
 
Also the coaxial cable (althought this one might be too heavy which like you said can be a bad thing...): http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=6306&seq=1&format=2
 
You think these are too cheap or they will be okay?
 
 
I've ordered other cables from monoprice in the past and most of their stuff is fairly decent. Don't really know about these cables though but the reviews seem okay.

Really it's hard to know if it is ok but you really SHOULDN'T have any problems with these. The optical cable you have is fine and I have one from micca that is also thin and really, optical was originanly thin. The really heavy ones are just....for static setups.
 
Most digital coaxil cables with RCA connect are that thick and heavy..so it should be fine.
 
Monoprice says there is no restocking fee and easy return so I think it's ok, but it's alll up to you. Rarely does something go bad though to ease you up. It's just that as a member of this site, I can't just say go without warning you that I can't possibly know if it is going to be bad.
 
If it helps, I buy form MP all the time and have no problems. They aren't snake oil at all.
 
RCA connect...yeah...tricky stuff but at least it's a standard?
 
Yeah.....hopefully you can leave some desk space so that you can relieve some pressure on the jack
 
This is what I did

 
it was a mistake to get a 6ft cable that weighs......oh goodness...a lot for a cable and especailly one for a portable light device.
 
 
 
15ft? wow..... that must be some thing! Just to let you know that both Coaxil and Optical toslink (it has fiber optics inside) does have signal degrade, but at 15feet you don't need to worryabout it. Just keep it in mind if you are going 50ft+ and especailly at 100ft+. The speed(MHz) of the wire and the stuff it's made of changes degragation. For wires that are this cheap, you won't get a specs sheet telling you how fast it is... you get those with more high quality and possibly at times snake oil cables.
 
 
 
THANKS for the upvotes..its good to know that you know it's there! I did a lengthy post in this thread once and asked for it...and man a lot of people did..but upvotes have no effect on head-fi. IT just shows up nice sometimes. But it does feel good! Let me tell you that!
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120
 
There are some minor innacuracies I have learned of but none that will affect the process.

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Sweet.  Yes Monoprice hasn't let me down so I'll try them again.
 
Another nice picture. 
 
I'm not sure if I'm correct, but are you connecting your E17 to your laptop via a high quality optical cable (gray)?
 
Is this better than using the USB connection?
 
 
 
I'll keep that in mind, I know I ordered a "high quality" 3.5 MM audio cable and that thing was about 3-4 times thicker than a regular cable  O_O.  Really stiff, but good quality though.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Sweet.  Yes Monoprice hasn't let me down so I'll try them again.
 
Another nice picture. 
 
I'm not sure if I'm correct, but are you connecting your E17 to your laptop via a high quality optical cable (gray)?
 
Is this better than using the USB connection?
 
 
 
I'll keep that in mind, I know I ordered a "high quality" 3.5 MM audio cable and that thing was about 3-4 times thicker than a regular cable  O_O.  Really stiff, but good quality though.

Using the word high quality is incorrect They are known as "fancy" on mp for a reason and that is that......they aren't high quality as you would expect. It is of good quality and matierals on the outside that I can feel..but what really matters is the inside(not entirely, not allowing the cable to bend is also important)(and shielding if it's coaxil). the outside uses good quality materials but is unrefined and sharp sometimes. 
 
There are some that say USB is better, Coaxil is warmer, Optical is cleaner....and really, if you are using things that are working correctly (USB and all those inputs gets problems sometimes) and do a real blind test(that some say isn't even blind and won't work well) you won't tell a difference 99% of the time(napkin). Worry about that when you get tothe $1000 price range point. But righ tnow, the only difference in choosing them is that amps and DAC's at this price point sometimes and half the time will say that USB will support 96KHz and Optical will support 192KHz or vice versa. I used optical on my E17 as USB on the E17 has a class 1 audio driver meaning it doesn't need to instal one but due to that and the chip it is limited to 96KHz and being the guy I was, I wanted 192KHz.
 
 
Analog cables are a bit differnet and you should get "high quality" ones. Just make sure you aren't paying a fortune. Good priced ones with good wiring is important. I won't get into analog here as it's even more debated and due to the nature of it some say hundred dollar ones are important. But me personally. I won't spend over $30 for an analog one.
 

---

I know that you are now curious on 96KHz and 192KHz and all those sample rates so I will link and quote what I wrote a month or two ago. I wrote it on my phone in a car so there may be rushings or innacuracies..even more than what I have now.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3555#post_8414234
 
 
 
Quote bowei006:

The benefits of anything over 44.1KHz 16bit(unless its classical) theoretically can not be heard differently from a human if we base it off the sinplest calculations and theory. It is that many times "better" yes but as humans we cant hear it. The highest a human can ever hear is 22KHz and that is as a baby. The average person hears at 17KHz maximum. So following Nyquists theorem te sample rate has to be half and more than the maximum hearing so 44.1KHz was used. Supposedly we arent hearing anything past that but tests have confirmed thr we do get benefits. A sample rate of 96KHz is already way tok high to handle and decode which will add jitter to the audio but at 96KHz the audio will add sharpness to it and there is some "hardware" audio from the encoding process that will also influence how it sounds. 192KHz is even more taxing on a system due to the sheer number of times the audi is sampled per amount of time and thus adds more jitter to the audio but also sharpness.

Its up to you which tradeoff you want. 96KHz /24bit or 192KHz/24 bit. 192KHz thus is not superior in hat sense. Due to the encoding of 192KHz it could add hardware noise that make a sweet sound some like. It can also be said that when 192KHz first started the people that used it were faniliar with oldies and noise due to vinyls an thus didnt mind the extra jitter of 192KHz(if they can hear and differentiate even) and thus prefere 192KHz to its extra sharpness and hardware added noise. This preference skyrocketed an led to the misconceptionthat 192 and a bigger number is superior.

16bit is a number that represents the dynamic range. 16 bit X 6 =96dB noise floor. 24bit isnt "better" so much as it allows for a higher noise floor of 144 dB(24 X 6) which js great for old recordings and classical music that has many instruments that want to go past 96dB. There are higher dynamic ranges but at the moment arent popular.



I hole you learned real sound science today. Head fi has changed due to more new members(yay real audio) but at the cost of values and real info. There is lots of noise these days and hard to pick info out from the sea. Always keep an open mind 

There is an upvote thumbs ul button near the "multi" button near where you press quote or reply. I deserve an upvote.

 
Also keep in mind that if you are not using WASAPI or ASIO, using and setting it on 24bit is a bit important sonically. If it isn't whenever you "reduce" or change the volume on the computer or anywhere below 100%, you are reducing the bits of data (dynamic range)! 16bit is considered the bare minimum and we humans can hear it! NWAVGUY designed the ODAC to support 24 bit so that you can change the volume (not to an extreme I think) and still have enough bits left for a good noise ceiling(or floor). Since you are doing this with a TV....it will be hard to see whether it will be 16bit or 24bit or even change it so to keep best sound quality and because your stuff probably will output 16bit.. keep TV volume at 100% IF YOU CAN CHANGE IT. And change volume with E17  only. The E7 originally disabled the user from changing the volume , but as FiiO is universal, many people didn't understand this and so for the E17 they disabled such a ....disabling of volume controls on the computer and let the user do whatever. 

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Yeah dude I wish I could upvote you even more but it says "you have reached your limit for rating content".
 
Don't know when the next chance thy'll let me but I'll upvote some more for all this info you've provided .
 
Ok yeah I've heard about that degradation in HDMI cables (I think it's anything past 15 ft or something?). It's a little better with audio cables I guess, that's good to know. Definitly going ot do some measurements when I get home so I don't order too big of a cable.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Yeah dude I wish I could upvote you even more but it says "you have reached your limit for rating content".
 
Don't know when the next chance thy'll let me but I'll upvote some more for all this info you've provided .
 
Ok yeah I've heard about that degradation in HDMI cables (I think it's anything past 15 ft or something?). It's a little better with audio cables I guess, that's good to know. Definitly going ot do some measurements when I get home so I don't order too big of a cable.

Reread my above post again, I added a lot of new info you will be interested in learning...
 
You don't need to upvote me, i was just telling you the first time to let you know that it does make some people happy, the other few times were in links I linked.... I don't really want to solicite your upvotes. Upvote what you deserve!
 
So yeah, re read my above post. It actually has info that you can read once and feel smart with forever.

 

[AFRO insomniac]

Ah man I just posted and refreshed and you give me an entire new post of good quality info! I'm heading home from work right now but I'll definitely look into this. Really interesting and cool stuff.
 
It's crazy man, I can't keep up with all the info right now

(but I really do appreciate all of it and will read it). 
 
It's funny because right when I was thinking "What is 96KHz and 192KHz?" you give me a whole description to read haha.
 
Thanks again for all the help.